2 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:But it only matters if it happened in Russia and there were recordings kept...
A new conspiracy theory for why the sequel trilogy sucked, and it starts here!
Yes, it must be those reluctant little reviled comment generating programs refusing to buy merch and watching movies after being crapped on by the mouse. 🤔 How dare they not consume!
25 minutes ago, DarthDude said:Seems it's exactly what the contradicting directors of EP 7 - 9 did on each other. 😂
Which unfortunately was allowed to happen by the head of Lucasfilm. There should have been an overarching plan to the trilogy.
Alright guys. Can this, um... discussion cease or go elsewhere?
On 1/17/2020 at 6:59 AM, Vondy said:The dissonance being that the term "canon" has always been crassly misused in lieu of "official" in Star Wars land. Disney isn't an authoritative religious synod or a vaunted convocation of academic literary or cinema scholars who have any sort of authority when speaking about culture and the arts. They are corporate executives and marketing hacks in the business of selling stuff. All they can decide is what is and is not "officially licensed" and bears their logo. So what?
That is not, when all is said and done, a "canon" in any meaningful sense of the word. Its a listing of marketable copyrights and trademarks they refer to internally when producing new content (if we're lucky). Star Wars is not merely a franchise. Its a cultural phenomenon. Fans should never let boardrooms tell them what is culturally significant or artistically essential. That is counter-intellectual and debases the body of work being produced.
What might get us closer to a meaningful notion "canon" would be if Lucas, the major writers and directors, and academics who have studied Star Wars and its cultural impact (they exist) were to sit down and have a lively round-table discussing the best, worst, most influential, and least faithful works of the past four decades. Cultural product is art. Intellectual property and art are not synonymous.
So, your right. That's not how canon works. But, what you are describing is not a canon.
BS.
You know full well that in this case Canon means "what has been determined to be actual events that have happened in-universe".
Just because the word has religious origins doesn't mean that it can only be used in religious circumstances.
My point here is that people having "head canon" and claiming that their head canon is more valid and official than what Disney states to be canon is just ludicrous.
Look, the EU stuff of the past is still around. It hasn't been bought up and shredded by Disney.
BUT, it has been labeled as "legends" and thus that is all it is. Legends. There might be truth to some of it, and some of it might be proven wrong in the future.
But it's not anything that should be considered definitive proof for any kind of discussion about Star Wars.
(****, it really never was, considering the fact that Lucas just said that it was fanfiction anyway and changed it freely in his movies)
For example, you can't just go "Boba Fett is a Mandalorian because it said so in this EU book". That doesn't make him officially Mandalorian any more than if I just told my players in my campaign that he was.
Do whatever you want for your own campaign, Disney doesn't own your imagination or your campaign.
But to claim that your imagination or RPG campaign somehow holds sway over official Disney material is pretty bonkers.
On 1/18/2020 at 12:34 AM, Daeglan said:Which unfortunately was allowed to happen by the head of Lucasfilm. There should have been an overarching plan to the trilogy.
But as we are told, TroS is made for right-wingers:
QuoteTROS invites the perception that it is made with conservative, white and male audiences in mind.
We leftists should not try to fight right-wingers who so adamantly praise RoS and demonize any critic. @DanteRotterdam, @Donovan Morningfire, @Nytwyng, @StarkJunior, have your way with your right-wing Disney Star Wars, I admit defeat. 😥
Reported
Huh... I'm a leftist and I'm not upset with any of the Disney Star Wars movies...
Strange, that...
18 minutes ago, OddballE8 said:Huh... I'm a leftist and I'm not upset with any of the Disney Star Wars movies...
Strange, that...
Almost as strange as me thinking good and bad ideas exist all along the political spectrum and overall enjoy all of the Star Wars movies, pre- or post-Disney acquisition, even if I do take issue with some of the decisions made in some entries.
It’s almost as if someone made an irrelevant, out-of-the-blue non-sequitur statement in an attempt to push people’s buttons and force thread lock, rather than take place in a civil, good-faith discussion. /shrug
Anyway, back to the thread’s topic....
I stand by my assessment that the Star Wars Disney+ projects will be used as a proving ground to help decide who gets offered the director’s chair for big screen projects.
Back on topic...
I know this might not be the most popular opinion, but I don’t really see the problem with any of this. Yes, people lost their jobs which is always unfortunate, but if they’re talented enough they can find employment elsewhere (which sounds like the better situation, given what’s happened to FFG’s under their new French rulers lately).
And as far as the game goes... what more do you need? Do you really need a sourcebook for low theme base level nonsense like Episodes 7-9 and the Mandolorian? Even an intoxicated GM who is putting in a half-hearted effort could proxy and/or develop a campaign in those eras that run better than anything we’ve seen on screen lately.
We also now have the “source code” for the whole thing since they’ve given us Genesys (which if we’re being honest should’ve been the writing on the wall for the RPGs going under). So any new classes, races, equipment, etc have guidelines for at home development.
All in all the only thing I can see going out that will be missed are these forums, and usually when games go under the true fans pick up that kind of thing, often for the better.
16 minutes ago, Flavorabledeez said:Back on topic..
Thank you!
16 minutes ago, Flavorabledeez said:Do you really need a sourcebook for low theme base level nonsense like Episodes 7-9 and the Mandolorian? Even an intoxicated GM who is putting in a half-hearted effort could proxy and/or develop a campaign in those eras that run better than anything we’ve seen on screen lately.
Nevermind..
18 minutes ago, Flavorabledeez said:We also now have the “source code” for the whole thing since they’ve given us Genesys (which if we’re being honest should’ve been the writing on the wall for the RPGs going under).
Launching a new RPG line should have been a red flag that RPG production might end?
Just now, Nytwyng said:Launching a new RPG line should have been a red flag that RPG production might end?
Not usually, but something that’s essentially “here’s several tomes on how to make what you want within any license using the same rpg mechanics” definitely makes future sourcebooks a bit superfluous.
11 minutes ago, Flavorabledeez said:Not usually, but something that’s essentially “here’s several tomes on how to make what you want within any license using the same rpg mechanics” definitely makes future sourcebooks a bit superfluous.
GURPS would like a word with you.... 😁
18 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:GURPS would like a word with you.... 😁
Oh yeah, there’s quite a few things out there that definitely throw what I’m saying under the bus, but are they attached to major IP’s?
The only thing I could think of was DC Adventures and its ties to Mutants and Masterminds, but even those were made by Green Ronin with the idea that it wouldn’t be a longterm endeavor, AND made after the initial “here’s the rules” product.
Edited by Flavorabledeez11 minutes ago, Flavorabledeez said:Oh yeah, there’s quite a few things out there that definitely throw what I’m saying under the bus, but are they attached to major IP’s?
The only thing I could think of was DC Adventures and its ties to Mutants and Masterminds, but even those were made by Green Ronin with the idea that it wouldn’t be a longterm endeavor.
Genesys isn’t attached to a major IP (although I’m certain that some fans of Android and Terrinoth might disagree). It uses the same engine developed for one, but the game itself isn’t. It was literally born as a result of Sam Gregor-Stewart playing a non-Star Wars game using the Star Wars mechanics. Players had been making homebrew conversions of existing and original settings to the system for some time, and Genesys was developed as a way to tap into that market.
1 minute ago, Nytwyng said:Genesys isn’t attached to a major IP (although I’m certain that some fans of Android and Terrinoth might disagree). It uses the same engine developed for one, but the game itself isn’t. It was literally born as a result of Sam Gregor-Stewart playing a non-Star Wars game using the Star Wars mechanics. Players had been making homebrew conversions of existing and original settings to the system for some time, and Genesys was developed as a way to tap into that market.
Soooo are you just not seeing how Genesys is a “how to” guide for FFG’s narrative rpg system and will allow for anyone to continue any rpg lines that utilize that system?
Because that’s my point, and I haven’t seen another company with major IPs release something like that, so when you think about the whole thing it could just be a timing thing, and it could also be Asmodee saying they’re going to scale back the rpg lines and the creators giving fans a way to continue.
Regardless, it’s fortuitous that it happened, which goes to my original point: FFG closing shop on its rpg lines isn’t that big of a deal when it comes to its Star Wars stuff
42 minutes ago, Flavorabledeez said:Soooo are you just not seeing how Genesys is a “how to” guide for FFG’s narrative rpg system and will allow for anyone to continue any rpg lines that utilize that system?
Because that’s my point, and I haven’t seen another company with major IPs release something like that, so when you think about the whole thing it could just be a timing thing, and it could also be Asmodee saying they’re going to scale back the rpg lines and the creators giving fans a way to continue.
Regardless, it’s fortuitous that it happened, which goes to my original point: FFG closing shop on its rpg lines isn’t that big of a deal when it comes to its Star Wars stuff
Never said it couldn't be used that way. Never said it shouldn't be used that way. Doing so would be disingenuous.
I'd say that releasing Genesys is more a statement on the favorable reaction to the game engine, and seizing an opportunity to capitalize on the system's popularity. Tapping into the existing base of players converting the system for various homebrew settings, while also allowing for a universal line with which to make RPG product based on FFG's own IPs is a logical step. But I see it in no way as inherently indicative of FFG shutting down the Star Wars (or any) RPG line (going back to your statement about Genesys should have been "the writing on the wall" for FFG's RPGs).
That it can facilitate further player-made content in the event of the line's cancellation is a fortunate side-effect, not an advance indicator. That's all.
Might be that they are just putting a moratorium on producing new material for the game and are planning to coast with the current volumes available to it. From a business standpoint, that would make good sense. There are a lot of players, like me, who only just discovered the game who want to get the old material; so, there is a huge market for just reprinting old material right now.
24 minutes ago, Balorna said:There are a lot of players, like me, who only just discovered the game who want to get the old material; so, there is a huge market for just reprinting old material right now.
I'm somewhat in that camp. I first discovered the game about a year ago, and already have about half the books. My main worry about this situation is that reprints will stop and second-hand prices will go up dramatically, because I still want to pick up many of the books I'm lacking.
27 minutes ago, Balorna said:Might be that they are just putting a moratorium on producing new material for the game and are planning to coast with the current volumes available to it. From a business standpoint, that would make good sense. There are a lot of players, like me, who only just discovered the game who want to get the old material; so, there is a huge market for just reprinting old material right now.
Reprinting is questionable, but they will be happy to empty out their stocks of stuff that's just sitting there.
I am hoping that it isn't the end and that they'll either be kickstarting books (entirely open for that) or simply shifting the model to freelance work.
That being said, this doesn't mean it has to be the end, as people like @Kualan have shown, we the community can create amazing content and share it amongst ourselves. Yes it lacks that 'seal of approval' to make it official, but we are the people playing the games and keeping it alive.
Edit: I do think that if the game was able to be distributed digitally they might have gotten more sales, alas the contract supposedly doesn't allow from that (from the rumours around at least).
Edited by Ebak3 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:Reprinting is questionable, but they will be happy to empty out their stocks of stuff that's just sitting there.
I certainly hope they will at least be reprinting old material, because I have a lot to go, and I can only afford so much a pop.
5 hours ago, Flavorabledeez said:Soooo are you just not seeing how Genesys is a “how to” guide for FFG’s narrative rpg system and will allow for anyone to continue any rpg lines that utilize that system?
Because that’s my point, and I haven’t seen another company with major IPs release something like that, so when you think about the whole thing it could just be a timing thing, and it could also be Asmodee saying they’re going to scale back the rpg lines and the creators giving fans a way to continue.
Regardless, it’s fortuitous that it happened, which goes to my original point: FFG closing shop on its rpg lines isn’t that big of a deal when it comes to its Star Wars stuff
I beg to differ. Aside from their own major IPs, (Cyberpunk, Cybergeneration, Mekton, TFOS, Castle Falkenstien), R.Talsorian Games, has/had the license for for a number of prominent IPs, including, but not limited to The Witcher (new IP for them), Bubblegum Crisis, and Dragon Ball (past licenses). And they have their own "open source" game engine, used on all of their current games, the FUZION core , which is fully compatible with any or all of their other products.
1 hour ago, Balorna said:I certainly hope they will at least be reprinting old material, because I have a lot to go, and I can only afford so much a pop.
Reprinting represent increased risk of getting stuck sitting on stocks of unmoving product--an ever-growing risk as more people start seeing the lines as "dead" (regardless of whether they really are or not). Some (including myself) will give in to sunk cost and finish out with the products remaining, but others will cold turkey drop the line at the first whiff of necrosis.
2 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:I beg to differ. Aside from their own major IPs, (Cyberpunk, Cybergeneration, Mekton, TFOS, Castle Falkenstien), R.Talsorian Games, has/had the license for for a number of prominent IPs, including, but not limited to The Witcher (new IP for them), Bubblegum Crisis, and Dragon Ball (past licenses). And they have their own "open source" game engine, used on all of their current games, the FUZION core , which is fully compatible with any or all of their other products.
Rad, bro.
This whole thing is my bad for including extra things (that don’t really matter) in my actual point which I’ll just leave here:
Sucks that people got canned, wish them the best, but utilizing the books we have now as well as coupling them with the creation methods outlined in the Genesys rules means the sky isn’t falling for FFG’s Star Wars rpg line as long as you don’t mind putting in the legwork to make it happen.