Thanks for that @Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun .

Putting aside all the inherent stupidity behind the slow speed space chase and the problems with weaponising hyperspace, it's instantly - instantly - a million times better.

If we presume that Ackbar was critically wounded during Kylo's attack instead of just killed off-screen, then it makes sense for him to make such a sacrifice in a way that it never did for Holdo. Holdo was uninjured, a (supposedly) vital leader of the Resistance and (due to her rather douchey actions and words towards our heroes over the course of the film) not a particularly sympathetic character.

Many Star Wars fans had a long-standing emotional investment in Ackbar built up over many years. We had no such investment in Holdo, so it's hard for her actions to strike the emotional beats needed for that kind of a payoff.

It should have been Ackbar or Leia. Period.

Terrible decision, one of many.

Oh my god, I'd managed to forget all about the ****** Execution Troopers and their laser axes...

1 hour ago, NotBatman said:

Oh my god, I'd managed to forget all about the ****** Execution Troopers and their laser axes...

This brought a tear to my eye.

Now cut in some technical babble to explain how it works, and then splice in a slowed down audio of Ackbar saying it's a trap in some way, and boom. Golden.

17 hours ago, Jo Jo said:

It should have been Ackbar or Leia.

It should have been R5-D-Extra. Droids would be better at astrogation anyways.

On 1/6/2020 at 12:31 PM, Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun said:

"General Hux, this is Ackbar... do you know, what this is? ... it's... a... traaap!!"

10 minutes ago, RuusMarev said:

"General Hux, this is Ackbar... do you know, what this is? ... it's... a... traaap!!"

Ackbar being wasted off screen jn a bridge explosion was a bit unsatisfying.

BUT: Real world politics. You cannot have a being named Ackbar make a suicide bombing, not in these times.

On 1/6/2020 at 8:53 PM, Jo Jo said:

It should have been Ackbar or Leia. Period.

Terrible decision, one of many.

I wonder if we ever will know about the exact timing. What was originally planned for Carrie Fisher in the third movie. And when the decision was made after Carrie Fisher dying, to not stop RLJ and do a major recut. Probably it was too late to stop the movie release.

Give me a ****ing break. So just exchanging Holdo for Ackbar SUDDENLY makes it okay. I call BS.

I really liked Holdo. She had that presence of a leader. I was heartbroken to see her sacrifice herself.

She must have been one heck of a navigator on the bridge of a capital ship before becoming vice-admiral to pull off a stunt like that, though.

4 hours ago, Ebak said:

Give me a ****ing break. So just exchanging Holdo for Ackbar SUDDENLY makes it okay.

17 hours ago, Ebak said:

Give me a ****ing break. So just exchanging Holdo for Ackbar SUDDENLY makes it okay. I call BS.

No its still dumb but its better at least... The problem is they needed a reason to cause chaos on the supremacy so our heroes can escape. I don't think a normal collision by the Raddus would do that or that it would even make it to the fleet before being shot to pieces. I dunno, the whole chase scene is dumb as ****. Its a massive plot hole that the FO just didn't launch all their fighters and kill the fleet.

21 minutes ago, Jo Jo said:

No its still dumb but its better at least... The problem is they needed a reason to cause chaos on the supremacy so are heroes can escape. I don't think a normal collision by the Raddus would do that or that it would even make it to the fleet before being shot to pieces. I dunno, the whole chase scene is dumb as ****. Its a massive plot hole that the FO just didn't launch all their fighters and kill the fleet.

It's fine that it is still dumb...it's just. Why is it better? Because it's a fan favoured male character rather than a new female character?

3 hours ago, Ebak said:

It's fine that it is still dumb...it's just. Why is it better? Because it's a fan favoured male character rather than a new female character?

Basically.

2 hours ago, Ebak said:

It's fine that it is still dumb...it's just. Why is it better? Because it's a fan favoured male character rather than a new female character?

LOL that's right, you go right ahead and bring gender into the equation, like that has anything to do with people's opinions of n this or any other Disney Star Wars related criticisms

Look, it would've worked better because we have an emotional connection with Ackbar since Return of the Jedi. He also featured in Awakens. If he sacrifices himself, we all would've had an emotional reaction.

With Holdo, there wasn't any real sense of loss, because we didnt know her... have her survive, and show us her save the day at the end of Rise to pay off our initial meeting and to show off her ability to command, as she returns with Lando and directs the attack on the Last Order fleet, as Ackbar did in Return.

20 minutes ago, RuusMarev said:

Look, it would've worked better because we have an emotional connection with Ackbar since Return of the Jedi. He also featured in Awakens. If he sacrifices himself, we all would've had an emotional reaction.

With Holdo, there wasn't any real sense of loss, because we didnt know her... have her survive, and show us her save the day at the end of Rise to pay off our initial meeting and to show off her ability to command, as she returns with Lando and directs the attack on the Last Order fleet, as Ackbar did in Return.

And that's exactly it.

Holdo was introduced out of nowhere in the second act of the second film and killed (herself) off in the third act of the second film. What was the actual point? It was a waste if a character, a waste of a very talented actor and - like so many things in the sequel trilogy - an utter waste of potential.

And I'd say exactly the same thing if you replaced Ackbar with Leia, or Mon Mothma.

In come on how does this even advance the story so you didn’t have to kill him news, The Rise of Skywalker novelization author said Nien Nunb dies (but hopes he did survive) while Mike Quinn, the actor who has played him since Return of the Jedi said his character is very much alive.

I’m going with seniority here and say the guy who’s been playing him since 1983 knows the whole story.

Or

It’s all Rebel propaganda. Nien Nunb died long ago in that thriced damned foolish attack on the Death Star II.

2 hours ago, Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun said:

I’m going with seniority here and say the guy who’s been playing him since 1983 knows the whole story.

Or

It’s all Rebel propaganda. Nien Nunb died long ago in that thriced damned foolish attack on the Death Star II.

For some reason I have a bizarre pseudo recollection from the space battle in RotJ.

Nien Nunb complaining to Lando - after the Falcon took a hit; can't remember if it was during the space battle or the DS2 run. Lando looks at him and say "calm down, it's just a nosebleed!".

Never seen it in any version of the script, or the film itself (at least not the remastered versions). Of course, I did watch RotJ when it came out in the cinema as a kid, so, maybe it was just imagination running wild.

44 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

For some reason I have a bizarre pseudo recollection from the space battle in RotJ.

Nien Nunb complaining to Lando - after the Falcon took a hit; can't remember if it was during the space battle or the DS2 run. Lando looks at him and say "calm down, it's just a nosebleed!".

Never seen it in any version of the script, or the film itself (at least not the remastered versions). Of course, I did watch RotJ when it came out in the cinema as a kid, so, maybe it was just imagination running wild.

I actually have memories of a RorJ record set with picture book that depicts, in detail, the first wave of fighters crashing into the shield. (Maybe 5 of them?)

Its possible you may have heard it there, or somewhere similar? Because I've not seen that detail in the actual movie...

@Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun , do you have any knowledge about this set of the old 45 records ?

@RuusMarev - I don't think I've heard those records. Maybe it was something from a novella or film adaption, it's something I vaguely remember (or imagine I remember) from early viewings. Not something I've ever seen or heard since, though.

The OT films can be a bit weird sometimes though. I remember seeing a TV version of A New Hope that cut out Luke's training with the remote for some reason!

35 minutes ago, RuusMarev said:

I actually have memories of a RorJ record set with picture book that depicts, in detail, the first wave of fighters crashing into the shield. (Maybe 5 of them?)

Its possible you may have heard it there, or somewhere similar? Because I've not seen that detail in the actual movie...

@Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun , do you have any knowledge about this set of the old 45 records ?

Rough memory, it was mentioned in the radio drama, the audio cassette and the novel that some fighters did not pull up in time. I don’t believe they stated how many were fighters crashed onto Death Star II’s shield projected from the Sanctuary Moon.