We were running through a RtL dungeon today, (lvl 9 the Prison) and I had just laid the beat down on two of the heroes with some Beastmen and Ferrox, The tank was limping away with 4 hp, while the mage was down to 2.

I pulled a (oh darn the name of the bloody card escapes me right now, the one that lets me gain 10 threat immediatly) and a Dark Charm.

WOO HOO!

So I get the Mage to roll for Dark Charm, and we have a success, I decided to get the mage to attack the tank whom was standing next to him.

Wham Bam, Nice roll, Broke through the tanks bloody armour and took him down.

Now at this point the tank raised a question.

As he had set a guard order, could he not have used his interupt attack to immediatly attack his Dark Charmed teammate?

It was argued that if a necromancer takes control over one of my units I have to attack them.
Why not if I take over a hero, can they not attack then?

I couldn't find a distinct ruling the in rule book, but I mostly wanted to get back to finding a way of slaughtering the poor mage and tried to move the game along.

So wise gamers of the gamingverse, what is the take on this, could he have guarded and taken down the lowly mage worth 3 conquest, or would my strike taking against the more powerful (and cursed) tank comepletly uninterubtable?

So I get the Mage to roll for Dark Charm, and we have a success, I decided to get the mage to attack the tank whom was standing next to him.

Wham Bam, Nice roll, Broke through the tanks bloody armour and took him down.

Now at this point the tank raised a question.

As he had set a guard order, could he not have used his interupt attack to immediatly attack his Dark Charmed teammate?

It was argued that if a necromancer takes control over one of my units I have to attack them.
Why not if I take over a hero, can they not attack then?

I couldn't find a distinct ruling the in rule book, but I mostly wanted to get back to finding a way of slaughtering the poor mage and tried to move the game along.

So wise gamers of the gamingverse, what is the take on this, could he have guarded and taken down the lowly mage worth 3 conquest, or would my strike taking against the more powerful (and cursed) tank comepletly uninterubtable?

It is irrelevent of whether a player in controlled or not a player can attack another player, see FAQ pg 4

" Q: Can heroes willingly target and hit other heroes?

A: Yes, although they must roll their full compliment of dice. In these cases, hero players may opt not to spend all their surges to limit the damage they deal, but the heroes still must consider very carefully before deciding to use this tactic!"

So yes they can attack another player.this is a valid tactic, however the particular situation your referrring to is specifically addressed in the FAQ on page 5:

"Q: How does the timing of Guard interact with Dark Charm? Can I use my Guard order to attack when the overlord plays Dark Charm on me so I don’t lose it? Can I use a Guard order to attack the hero the overlord is using Dark Charm on? In either case, can I do so before or after the die is rolled to see if the card takes effect?

A: Guard orders can interrupt the overlord at any time.However, each action should be resolved in its entirety once it’s been begun. (For example, although you can interrupt the overlord if he declares an attack, if you choose not to the attack is resolved in its entirety before you have another chance to use your Guard order. You can’t wait to see if the attack missed or not before deciding to Guard.) So, for Dark Charm, once the overlord has played the card you must immediately decide whether to interrupt it with a Guard order. If you choose not to, the overlord proceeds to roll dice and you must wait for the card (and its attack, if any) to be completely resolved. If you interrupt the Dark Charm and kill the target hero, then the card is canceled without further effect."

Cool thanks, Which faq was this from? I checked the erratas in the rulebooks, and I skimmed the one on the main Descent Page here on FFG.

Dribbler said:

No problems it's all from the one in support (i think the tab is) on this site.

That doesnt clear it up to me.

So if the player is interrupting the "action" of the OL playing the card, then at that point, the heroes dont know who is about to be charmed:

OL says: I am playing Dark Charm.

Players may interrupt. If they interrupt, they can attack, but who? Nobody is charmed yet.

Ok, so players opt not to interrupt.

Then OL plays out the card, and once the card action is taking place, the opportunity to interrupt has passed.

So the OL continues - my Dark Charm will affect magey guy, and magey guy will attack tankey guy. Bam, done.

Or am I reading this wrong, and players can let the OL play his Charm, begin to play out the card by choosing a hero, and THEN interrupt and attack that hero, once the OL is mid-way thru his card? Note the choose the hero, and do his action are two parts of the same card. Cant you only interrupt before the card starts playing out?

My read of the FAQ is that the players can only interrupt immediately when the OL declares the card he's playing. If htey choose not to, once the OL has picked the hero, it's too late. Right / wrong?

Thanks!

-mike

poobaloo said:

The Guard ability is able to Interupt at Anytime.

And Dark Charm has a roll to it to see if it actually works, so they best time to use the Guard is right after the roll saying yes Mage is charmed, but before he starts rolling his attack against the tank.

It says in the FAQ that if you kill the hero that been dark charmed with a guard action, then the dark charm card is canceled without further effect. So it seems pretty clear that the hero has been targeted, failed to roll a blank, and then gets killed by their comrade. The heroes can't wait to see how the DC attack goes off before deciding though. It the dice are rolled for the attack, it can't be interrupted.

"...So, for Dark Charm, once the overlord has played the card you must immediately decide whether to interrupt it with a Guard order. If you choose not to, the overlord proceeds to roll dice and you must wait for the card (and its attack, if any) to be completely resolved. If you interrupt the Dark Charm and kill the target hero, then the card is canceled without further effect."

According to the last paragraph of the quoted FAQ, you have to interrupt before the dieroll to see if it works. So, this suggests to me, that when you play the card, you pick a target right away. Then you can interrupt if you want to.

edderkoppen said:

This is exactly how i read it so you have your party, Overlord pulls Dark Charm deciding to play it on Landrec as he has a blast weapon and all players are wthin range one of the other characters has a guard on they can attak Landrec in the hope of killing him before he wipes out the whole party. So the guard is played after the Overlord picks their target but before the dice is rolled to see if they are effected.

edderkoppen said:

That does seem to be the likely answer. But looking closer, it uses the phrase "the overlord proceeds to roll dice." The dark charm card reads "Play at the start of your turn and choose one hero. The chosen hero player must roll one power die. If the result is a blank, nothing happens. If the result is not a blank, the hero must make one attack that you declare. This attack may target any hero, including the attacking hero, but is subject to the normal attack rules, including range and line of sight."

The overlord doesn't roll the power die for dark charm, the hero does. Per the card the hero might be the one to roll the dice for the attack itself as well. However, for the FAQ ruling to be correct, the overlord must roll the dice for the attack when he declares it, since otherwise the OL won't be rolling dice at all. In which case it can be interrupted after the hero rolls the power die to negate it.

Or it may be a misprint in the FAQ, and be supposed to be "the hero proceeds to roll dice." That would be a houserule interpretation that I would support.

I believe the key distinction here is between declaring an action and resolving that action. To use the standard example, if a monster attacks you when you have a guard order, you can interrupt the monster even after you know that it is attacking you. That is, the OL says "the beastman attacks you" and then you say "I make my guard attack against it first." You know who the monster is attacking, because stating the target is part of declaring the attack (see page 9 of the rules).

So the question is, when the OL plays Dark Charm, what information is part of the declaration? I don't have the card in front of me right now, but I seem to recall it says something like "the hero makes one attack you declare," in which case the heroes should probably know the affected hero and the intended target before they choose to interrupt or not.

I am with Edderkoppen and Minti-mie here.

The card says "Play at the start of your turn and choose one hero. ". So this is the OLs action. As in "I play a Dark Charm on Landrec!".

And now the players can choose to use their guard order "immediatly" . Before the die roll for effect.