Recently the TIE-Silencer pilot "Rush" had been introduced:

Not even available yet, I have to ask myself how to handle his initiative value... If he gets damaged, his initiative is treated as 6. Let's assume "Rush" gets damaged by somebody irrelevant with an initiative value of 4. What happens now?

1. Does "Rush" have to pass the current engagement phase since the initiative 6 phase is already over?

2. Does he get to shoot immediately after he gets damaged?

3. Does he shoot using his native initiative and is treated as ini 6 next round?

What shall I do?

Don't rush!! 😉 😂

...and wait for the points update and the proper release of Rush.

They might’ve said something something in the stream that Rush gets to shoot immediately when he becomes damaged in his 'limbo-zone'.

But my memory might betray me with this one.

I’m expecting an FAQ that states it takes effect next turn or something. It’s poorly written and needs a timing IMHO.

Based on the discussions around similar things in 1e (specifically, Tel resetting his initiative when he's been dropped to init 0 by a crit, then discards it with his pilot ability), if he gets his shot skipped by changing his init during the engagement phase, he's out of luck and misses his shot.

Hopefulyl they might revise that bad decision for 2e, but we'll see.

What if he has one damage card, shoots at I6, then repairs the damage card (somehow), and shoots again at I2!!!

NEW META!!!

IIRC, FFG has already ruled on Null (who is similar but to Rush but in reverse, going from high-to-low) that they will activate at Init 7, even if they take damage during the Activation phase. I think it's safe to assume that Rush will get an attack at some timing, but we'll have to wait-and-see for particulars.

2 hours ago, JBFancourt said:

What if he has one damage card, shoots at I6, then repairs the damage card (somehow), and shoots again at I2!!!

NEW META!!!

Each ship only gets one opportunity to attack regardless of what its init has changed to.

4 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

IIRC, FFG has already ruled on Null

Know where? Link? I cant find it in the RR or the Rulings thread.

37 minutes ago, Lyianx said:

Know where? Link? I cant find it in the RR or the Rulings thread.

Maybe I keep thinking they've ruled on that, then trying to find it and failing, and then forgetting that I couldn't find it the next time it comes up.

I mean, Null can't fail to activate, so it's got to happen sometime.

*shrug*

So they ruled on it during the live stream when they were showing off the new pilots.

So lets say a 5 hits Rush and deals him a damage card. Rush now becomes a 6. However, all other 5's on the table will need to finish engaging before Rush would engage next as a 6.

Note, the rules state the highest initiative engages after the current initiative has engaged, not once all 6's engage, all 5's engage. There is a subtle difference there that allows for ships like Null and Rush to bump up/down in order.

"de•scend
To move from a higher to a lower place; come or go down.
To slope, extend, or incline downward."

"descending order" does not mean descend, then if needed ascend, then keep descending again, it means from top to bottom. what happens should be properly clarified.

2 hours ago, shaunmerritt said:

So they ruled on it during the live stream when they were showing off the new pilots.

Got a timestamp link for reference? I skimmed though it, but when Rush took damage and change initiative, he'd already engaged, so it wasn't relevant and i dont think they covered it at the end.

5 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Each ship only gets one opportunity to attack regardless of what its init has changed to.

Killjoy...

36 minutes ago, JBFancourt said:

Killjoy...

Joy is for other forum sections;)

I remembered there being some similar rule in First Edition, so I went and looked it up. I found this in the FAQ on page 5. Obviously, we're not playing First Edition, so the rule is largely irrelevant... but it may at least inform us as to what FFG may eventually rule:

Quote

A ltered P ilot S kill

Some abilities alter the pilot skill value of a ship. If several game effects alter the pilot skill of a ship, only the most recent effect is applied. For example, if a Green Squadron Pilot equips Veteran Instincts, it increases its pilot skill from 3 to 5. However, if it later receives the “Damaged Cockpit” Damage card faceup, its pilot skill is reduced from 5 to 0 (rather than 2). Next round, however, Wedge Antilles can use Swarm Tactics to raise its pilot skill to 9.

Additionally, during the Combat phase, if the pilot skill of a ship that has not activated this phase changes to be higher than the current active ship, that ship does not become the active ship this phase. For example, if Tel Trevura has the “Damaged Cockpit” Damage card and is destroyed (for the first time) by a ship at pilot skill 5, he discards his damage cards. Therefore, his pilot skill changes to 7 and he cannot become the active ship this phase.

Well, we know something: 'During this phase, each ship engages (...)'

So, Rush definitely will engage eventually every round! Pfffew 🙂

5 hours ago, shaunmerritt said:

Note, the rules state the highest initiative engages after the current initiative has engaged, not once all 6's engage, all 5's engage. There is a subtle difference there that allows for ships like Null and Rush to bump up/down in order.

I'm with Shaun here (though it's all speculating for another 5 days):

- bullet point 1 makes it clear that higher ini shoots before lower ini, hence 'descending'.

- But you always start with the highest available ini. (Added the word for clarification.)

This would solve that problem - but would maybe also be precedent for a rule that is CONSTANTLY checking something. 😱 Which nothing in X-Wing does so far...

Or you can strive towards something something like the ability queue: if a ship ascends initiative during this phase, and thus missed the opportunity to engage at its initiative, it is added to the front of the queue and (but) after all the ships with the current initiative.

PS: it's so JOY ful to try and clarify rules, or get them straight! 😉

On ‎1‎/‎3‎/‎2020 at 7:20 PM, theBitterFig said:

Maybe I keep thinking they've ruled on that, then trying to find it and failing, and then forgetting that I couldn't find it the next time it comes up.

I mean, Null can't fail to activate, so it's got to happen sometime.

*shrug*

Indeed. but in Null's case his initiative drops , so if he gets shot before he can shoot himself, it just means he has to wait until the end of the turn.

"You can only activate once per turn" prevents him double-tapping someone.

It's probably going to need something in the rules reference - because even if you 'jump' him to the front of the queue and say "he's initiative 6", you're messing with only removing casualties after "all ships of a given initiative have engaged".

Skipping his shot feels simplest on the face of it, but then - since he must be damaged to be I6 - you can't have him skip his engagement or he ignores face-up damage cards which trigger 'before you engage'.

14 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Indeed. but in Null's case his initiative drops , so if he gets shot before he can shoot himself, it just means he has to wait until the end of the turn.

"You can only activate once per turn" prevents him double-tapping someone.

It's probably going to need something in the rules reference - because even if you 'jump' him to the front of the queue and say "he's initiative 6", you're messing with only removing casualties after "all ships of a given initiative have engaged".

Skipping his shot feels simplest on the face of it, but then - since he must be damaged to be I6 - you can't have him skip his engagement or he ignores face-up damage cards which trigger 'before you engage'.

engagement and activation are very different.

the question about null is not about engagement, it's about activation. as in you take damage during activation, lowering your initiative to 0. such as a ship dropping a rigged cargo or spare parts on you, a quadjumper tractoring you up on a mine or asteroid etcetera. it's got nothing to do with attacks (unless you have a way to perform attacks during activation).

also, what prevents double tapping is being unable to engage twice a turn. it's got nothing to do with activation.

other than that, i 100% agree.

The new Rules Reference got this problem covered:

Quote

"Rush" engages at the current initiative step, after all other ships at that step have engaged.

18 minutes ago, Laminidas said:

The new Rules Reference got this problem covered:

For reference, it's the last question in the FAQ section on p.34

On 1/3/2020 at 9:18 PM, shaunmerritt said:

So they ruled on it during the live stream when they were showing off the new pilots.

So lets say a 5 hits Rush and deals him a damage card. Rush now becomes a 6. However, all other 5's on the table will need to finish engaging before Rush would engage next as a 6.

Note, the rules state the highest initiative engages after the current initiative has engaged, not once all 6's engage, all 5's engage. There is a subtle difference there that allows for ships like Null and Rush to bump up/down in order.

So this was correct

On 1/3/2020 at 3:51 PM, meffo said:

"de•scend
To move from a higher to a lower place; come or go down.
To slope, extend, or incline downward."

"descending order" does not mean descend, then if needed ascend, then keep descending again, it means from top to bottom. what happens should be properly clarified.

Apparently FFG decided that even though what you said follows standard English conventions that they were still gonna do the descend, ascend when needed, then continue descending.