3 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

That's disgusting. Throw away 30+ points, estimating based on current point costs and that it very doubtful G4R will cost less than Sunny, to deal 1 damage. R5-TK is still a trash upgrade and G4R doesn't change that.

R5-TK, cluster missiles and ammunition failsafe and you trigger his ability safely, and can attack the ship he blocked. Also this combo works great on Torani Kulda... I see those two plus Captain Jostero as a natural trio, with room for a 4th ship.

• Fifth Brother: I like the symmetry with Seventh Sister, but it's kinda bull**** that Fifth Brother works with missile attacks while Seventh Sister doesn't. Homing Missiles seems incredibly good: either your opponent takes Hit/Crit, or else eats 4 dice with Lock/Force/Force. Sleeper strong Ion synergy, since you can use that Force to add an Ion token after the attack hits. Turning a single hit into an Ionization effect seems potent.
  • Also, I'd lowkey been hoping that Fifth Brother wouldn't have a double-force ability, so that he could take Supernatural Reflexes and not have a blank pilot ability. Init 4 is a fun spot for that sort of shenanigans, not too expensive, not too rage-inducing in opponents, but both TIE/v1 at Init 4 have double-force abilities.
• Vagabond: Nice. At low-init, it's not too much of the oppressive bombs, but it's still powerful. Will also be sweet with pre-activation Coordinated Barrel Rolls, (Vizier is handily Init 2). @Magnus Grendel I'm pretty sure that when it comes to alternative timing bombs, it works unless it says it doesn't. For example Paige and Deathfire work like that with multi-drops, while Genius doesn't allow it.
• Morna Kee: I like the design. Getting extra reinforce "actions" is potent, particularly when stacking double-front. However, it's also a limited resource, with only three bonus reinforce "actions" per game. That's pretty interesting.
• Captain Phasma: Probably works fine. Fits with the First Order strategies of "shooting me is bad." Flying her and Quickdraw and Tavson fairly close together could be nasty.
• Lieutenant LeHuse: @Dasharr A really handy partner for this guy would be Lieutenant Rivas, who gets bonus locks, but won't always get the most mileage out of them due to 2 red dice (and maybe even pointing the wrong way). Flying Rivas, LeHuse, and Kylo could be sweet. LLeH focuses, Kylo Locks, and Rivas lights up with a Lock LeHuse can use for double mods. Nothing too game-breaking, but OK.
• Rush: this fellow was previewed already, and it's cool, but it'll come down to cost/talent status. With a Talent and at a reasonable price (that is, closer to Avenger than Blackout), should be really nice to slot into a list. Along with Kylo and Blackout, this could be the Triple Silencer which works best. Probably worse than other lists, but sometimes you just want to triple silencer.
• Bossk: boring and fine. Scum kind of needed a better Z-95 pilot, Bossk answers the bill. N'Dru is an odd duck with his range restrictions. Kaato isn't good enough. It'll be interesting to see if there are any Hound's Tooth combos anyone can figure out with it. Even if they're bad combos, it's kind of sweet.
• Nom Lumb: Tasty. Om nom nom. I could see this guy being useful. Equip Expert Handling, swing around that large base, be a pest, and you should still have a shot on someone. Combine maybe with Torpedoes?
• G4R: That's kinda mean. Not sure it'll be easy to accomplish anything with it, but it's kind of sweet. I could see myself maybe using them instead of Sunny in my Fenn + 3 Ion Cartel Spacers + 4th Scyk list. Ionized ships are easily blocked, and then there's this sucker here. R5-TK synergy with Torani and Jostero is sweet but bad.

4 hours ago, SabineKey said:

Might not be with Clusters and Munitions Failsafe. Throw in Jostero to trigger off G4R, and you might have a damaging little combo.

G4R along with the old Torani Kulda Cluster/Failsafe trick, plus Jostero will be sweet. It'll be soooooo bad, but it'll be sweet.

45 minutes ago, Cerebrawl said:

R5-TK, cluster missiles and ammunition failsafe and you trigger his ability safely, and can attack the ship he blocked. Also this combo works great on Torani Kulda... I see those two plus Captain Jostero as a natural trio, with room for a 4th ship.

Give it a try for a few matches against people that know how the combo works and then assess. I doubt you'll get your investment out of it...

4 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Nom Lumb: Tasty. Om nom nom. I could see this guy being useful. Equip Expert Handling, swing around that large base, be a pest, and you should still have a shot on someone. Combine maybe with Torpedoes?

Dengar gunner seems kinda useful on him. Budget Vader crew for Scum.

34 minutes ago, Tobbert said:

Dengar gunner seems kinda useful on him. Budget Vader crew for Scum.

Also, it's good because it's easy not to actually *read* Dengar.

Last time I flew against him, I forgot to read the part where I could just spend the green token instead... and I was flying against a Dengar-carrying Firespray with TIE Defenders and a Reinforcing Shuttle, so I would have easily been able to spend Evade/Reinforce tokens and not care.

Only commenting on Scum, since I don't play Empire or FO:

• G4R-GOR looks like another Scum trick which is potentially hilarious, but not efficient or consistent enough to be worth it in a competitive setting. If you're not running R5-TK I think most people will just not shoot it on the rare turns when they bump; it's probably the lowest-value target anyway. Might have a place as filler if it's cheap enough.
• Bossk looks okay I guess? He will have Marksmanship stapled to him, and will likely be best against low-agility large ships and huge ships where it's easy for him to line up the bullseye and push crits through, and maybe also swarms. Not so good against aces. The Pursuit Craft ability is interesting, since it lets you K-turn out of the Hound's Tooth and fire missiles into whatever jerk is trying to fly around behind it, or lob a double-modded shot into someone if you don't K-turn.
• Not sure about Nom Lumb. Even with the auto-rotate, a 2-dice turret doesn't seem that strong, but if they're cheap enough maybe it could be worthwhile. Might depend on how the points change shakes out for some upgrades.

First draft of a G4R-G0R list, using Sunny Bounder as a point placeholder:

Quote

Torani Kulda (48)
Cluster Missiles (5)
R5-TK (0)
Munitions Failsafe (1)

Ship total: 54 Half Points: 27 Threshold: 5

Sunny Bounder (30)
Ship total: 30 Half Points: 15 Threshold: 2

Captain Jostero (42)
Ship total: 42 Half Points: 21 Threshold: 3

Sol Sixxa (46)
Dengar (6)
Bomblet Generator (5)
Ablative Plating (6)
Havoc (4)
Fire-Control System (2)
"Genius" (2)

Ship total: 71 Half Points: 36 Threshold: 5


Total: 197

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZsZ200Z129XWW98W9WW108Y138XWY122XWWWWY145XWWW80WW67W103W149W113W1&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

G4R: That's kinda mean. Not sure it'll be easy to accomplish anything with it, but it's kind of sweet. I could see myself maybe using them instead of Sunny in my Fenn + 3 Ion Cartel Spacers + 4th Scyk list. Ionized ships are easily blocked, and then there's this sucker here. R5-TK synergy with Torani and Jostero is sweet but bad.

Depending on your list, I think it is something you can make happen with some regularity, especially for those that haven't seen it happen. If you have a blocking screen formation with G4R in the lead, you can do it. You fan out with your swarm so that there isn't any space that an enemy formation can move that doesn't bump. It then forces enemy ships to the front of the formation as there is no space to go anywhere else. It sets your list up with many R1 shots (and some R2) while the enemy is all bumped and without actions.

I have a list that uses 5 generic Z-95's and Xizor (Prince and the New Power Generation) that I swap out a Headhunter for G4R.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

• Fifth Brother: I like the symmetry with Seventh Sister, but it's kinda bull**** that Fifth Brother works with missile attacks while Seventh Sister doesn't. Homing Missiles seems incredibly good: either your opponent takes Hit/Crit, or else eats 4 dice with Lock/Force/Force. Sleeper strong Ion synergy, since you can use that Force to add an Ion token after the attack hits. Turning a single hit into an Ionization effect seems potent.
  • Also, I'd lowkey been hoping that Fifth Brother wouldn't have a double-force ability, so that he could take Supernatural Reflexes and not have a blank pilot ability. Init 4 is a fun spot for that sort of shenanigans, not too expensive, not too rage-inducing in opponents, but both TIE/v1 at Init 4 have double-force abilities.

I'm ok with SNR here, I've used it to really good effect on 7th Sis. It's not particularly hard to reign in the use of both talent and ability and get the best of both worlds. Main problem is that it adds so many more points at I4, compared to I3, and they're obviously all going up as well. It's really great, but verges on being completely priced out. I am super psyched about running both siblings though. Possibly without $upes to start with.... As difficult to resist as it will be, you can fit a sweet 3rd ship in there.

Vagabond seems fun, but a couple of devices are insignificant compared to the power of prolonged 3 die attacks. If he leaves the table the same time as his bomb tokens, he's not bringing a lot at +/-40pt. I2 is actually useful for the ability though.

Bosskmanship is made for Latts. The temptation to put Prockets on him will be strong. Oh such glory!

The Crit Scyk is incredibly match up dependent but I0 gives you good guarantees. The threat alone is still a really neat tool and most useful on a cheap, agile frame. Overinvesting in it is always gonna be wrong, kind of a Scum theme, but must be tried. R5-TK well worth throwing in, if there's a free slot, likely not otherwise, it's generally better to just shoot the enemy. Unless you can't.... Biggest drawback is that calculate is kind of horrible on 3ag.

Might be seeing how I can fit these 2 in with Latts. Something that can mess with swarms would help even out some of the Busses worst match ups. She is not scared of aces. At all. (Incoming tractor nerf shouldn't lessen her effectiveness too much.)

Incoming squad title- *Crit Me With Your Robot Scyk, Crit Me, Crit Me.*

biscuit and slippers for deciphering the song title

22 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

The temptation to put Prockets on him will be strong

If you're planning on using Prockets to trigger Mark's hit > crit > (Bossk's crit > 2 hits) it won't work. Bossk and Marks are is primary only.

1 minute ago, Hiemfire said:

If you're planning on using Prockets to trigger Mark's hit > crit > (Bossk's crit > 2 hits) it won't work. Bossk and Marks are primary only.

Nah, shame, but it would be kinda nuclear to roll all that into one attack. Still maybe fun to have both with tractor tokens and other targets on offer. Probably too pricey if he's docked and you're obviously needing good squadmates. Choices, choices....

11 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

I'm ok with SNR here, I've used it to really good effect on 7th Sis. It's not particularly hard to reign in the use of both talent and ability and get the best of both worlds. Main problem is that it adds so many more points at I4, compared to I3, and they're obviously all going up as well. It's really great, but verges on being completely priced out. I am super psyched about running both siblings though. Possibly without $upes to start with.... As difficult to resist as it will be, you can fit a sweet 3rd ship in there.

SNR Sev is 61 with FCS but before adding a missile. Presuming Fifth is about the same price (safe assumption), it shouldn't be too hard to fit in both with something in the 60-70 point range.

But without SNR, having Fifth and Sev and a Precog Vader with probably about 10 points worth of bid. It'll be the "Twilight of the Apprentice" build I've been waiting for.

//

Here's a question: You've flown a lot of the generics. Would you go with Fifth/Sev without Force Talents, or SNR Generics? In current points, Sev works out the same.

7 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

If you're planning on using Prockets to trigger Mark's hit > crit > (Bossk's crit > 2 hits) it won't work. Bossk and Marks are primary only.

Marksmanship isn't primary-only (that's why MMS/Autoblasters are a thing), but right about Bossk.

Just now, theBitterFig said:

Marksmanship isn't primary-only (that's why MMS/Autoblasters are a thing), but right about Bossk.

Thanks.

Don't play FO, so I'll focus on the two I do play.

Vagabond is interesting, but on the edge right now for me- it'll depend on the points I'll have to invest to make his ability work.

Morna is fun. The action economy with say, Tau, will be really fun. Double reinforce or all over reinforce plus Focus or Lock is going to make her a hard target to put down and she'll be pumping out damage. Decent Initiative for a Large ship too, so she'll definitely be table-tested from me.

Fifth Brother will be a good pocket ace/filler. Homing Missiles and Passive Sensors turn him into a decent threat, and if he isn't using his Force for his ability he's using it on defense and thus distracting the enemy from a more deadly target. Paired with other v1s, any really, though I think naked Grand or 7th are best and he'll be a nice boost. Good pilot.

Bossk will see tabletime, depending on his points. Markmanship will be stapled on him, and if he's less than 34 points I'll be putting him in various squads. Not a game-changing pilot, but like Fifth Brother pilot he will be a good distraction/added damage dealer.

G4R-GOR. Not for me. I'm not a real blocker-style player, and the ability requires an already fragile ship to be targeted to use. The whole using Torani/friendly-fire bot is a lot of points put into a very gimmicky set-up, at least for me. Hard pass.

Nom Lumb is iffy. Also a blocker, but gets rid of some of the action economy issues that the Jumpmaster has with the rotating-when-shot mechanic. Not the greatest option, but at a decent price I can actually see this pilot being used. Allows the enemy to pick which ship they want you to attack which is definitely a subpar option, but put Dengar gunner on him and you'll hopefully at least be damaging one of the enemy's ships. At first look, Lumb might be able to shift his arc to whichever ship targets him last, as he doesn't actually preform a rotate action, just rotates the arc...

Overall I'll be paying for five ok pilots and some upgrades (Tech/Autoblasters/some Force upgrades) that I haven't been able to get from just my Imp/Seps/Scum expansions. I've already got a buddy who is going to take off the Rebel/Resistance stuff from me, so I'm fairly happy with what I'm getting at the price. Hopefully this pack will be a success, business-wise, for FFG and we'll get more card/cardboard-only packs in the future. Frankly, I'd probably be paying around the same amount for just the generic upgrades I'll be getting if I bought them through card-sellers, so I'm all good with this pack.

2 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Here's a question: You've flown a lot of the generics. Would you go with Fifth/Sev without Force Talents, or SNR Generics? In current points, Sev works out the same.

Ah man, I dunno, you've thrown me with this

I think they're almost different ships. Either end of a spectrum, with GGI offering the best of both.

Super Conquisitors excel at range control and work better at R3, while Sis can run cheaper, forgo missiles and be a nastier range 1 pest.

5th Bro is different though, he's clearly gonna love a missile, so that does even out the point comparison and make it more of a like for like. He's going to have the range threat of a SuperConc, potentially hit harder while he's at it, and do so at I4 ofc. He may be better at that job than they are, but aces will find it easier to range jump him, so match ups become a thing..... Then the better choice is to evade and head for R1, where they can't turn on you so easily. Then you maybe don't need missiles.... or you want GGI again.

So possibly the choice is actually the same, it will all be down to roles and points.

Or something.

It's gonna be interesting to see how differently it'll work on the table. Feels like the names may be a little more dynamic and can come in cheaper when necessary.

For missiles and dependability, cost allowing, I may still go Inqs. Because symmetry and ease. But more likely, I'll adjust other parts of the list to fit whatever mood I'm in.

Precog Vader plus 2 may have to move away from missiles anyway, I think. The Vader bid looks like it'll become too small and I'm not really in on Precog Passive. The twins should be able to maintain the lists effectiveness, but it may require a bit more finesse if both sets of missiles have to go and they have to gamble on range. All depends on how much Bro wants those rockets to throw and how much room there is after the changes. And maybe how much you believe in Passive Precog.

The strongest build there will probably drop Precog for Passive and take the Concs. I just don't really want that one.

I do fancy SuperBroSis and Echo.... ooooo lovelylovelylovely nonsense.... but so many things will make it sad. Soontir will appreciate them though. Daredevil for ALL the 1 hard adjustment lols ofc.

Insert points summoning here.

6 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

Phasma is basically Prince Xizor with a shiny helmet, but at least the FO are into S&M enough that it's not just a given that you would ignore shooting her. Put her next to Rush and have fun.

Don't forget that unlike Phasma, Xizor can opt to not human-shield his allies.

6 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

Phasma is basically Prince Xizor with a shiny helmet, but at least the FO are into S&M enough that it's not just a given that you would ignore shooting her. Put her next to Rush and have fun.

Don't forget that unlike Phasma, Xizor can opt to not human-shield his allies.

Phasma is really just the worst.

13 hours ago, Dasharr said:

It's not really free because another ship has to take the lock (and not spend it themselves). Besides, I'm not saying it's a bad ability - costing will dictate whether it's efficient - but it's not exciting because it's just another way to reroll red dice, which there are already plenty of.

True, but one wingman worth noting is Lieutenant Rivas, who generates free target locks a lot .

16 hours ago, Something Wicked said:

His ability works on missile attacks as well. I think that will make him very useful, especially paired with Jendon.

Especially (since the TIE/v1 is a very good knife fighter) if he can line up proton rockets. Have a 5-dice focused/fire control system attack. With an extra critical just to add injury to more injury.

15 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

That's disgusting. Throw away 30+ points, estimating based on current point costs and that it very doubtful G4R will cost less than Sunny, to deal 1 damage. R5-TK is still a trash upgrade and G4R doesn't change that.

Remember G4R doesn't require him to be hit. I wouldn't invest a huge amount in the trick (I think missiles and failsafe is going too far) but if you're not using a Y-wing's astromech slot, R5-TK lets you fire a pretty-easy-to-dodge unmodified 2-dice attack and turn it into a range 1 critical splash.

Actively spending points to try and exploit this is probably a bad plan because it's not that great a trick, but R5-TK is not spending points; if you have an astromech slot it's an option you can take without costing you anything, so if you never actually use it (not unlikely) then you've not wasted your time.

He is a gimmick - I'm not denying that - but initiative 0 is useful in and of itself as it turns him into a blocker you can use on Initiative 1 swarms like vulture droids and academy TIEs, and his ability - whilst I'll agree you'll pay for it - is essentially a deadman's switch that can go off multiple times.

6 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Phasma is really just the worst.

I can't wait to fly her with a Fanatical swarm. This game will be the only time Phasma has been worth a **** in any medium...

17 minutes ago, InterceptorMad said:

I can't wait to fly her with a Fanatical swarm. This game will be the only time Phasma has been worth a **** in any medium...

It'll depend on cost, but it could work.

Assuming she's pretty much the same cost as "Backdraft", you can take 4 x Fanatical Omega Squadron Experts, and Phasma with Fanatical, Optics and a Special Forces Gunner.

Whether that's better or worse than 5 Fanatical/Optics Omega Squadron Experts, or 4 Crack Shot/Optics Omega Squadron Experts and a similarly equipped "Backdraft", we'll have to wait and see.

Frankly I'm just happy we've got enough TIE/sf to field a TIE/sf all-stars force if desired. Assuming LeHuse is about 42 points, you can field Quickdraw, LeHuse and one I4 pilot of your choice with all the trimmings, or both if you're a bit more frugal.

Anything that makes target decisions for your opponant harder is good in my book.

Shoot at her to kill her off and a) it takes longer than usual and b) it makes her wingmen better at shooting you.

Shoot her wingmen, and they get better anyway and Phasmas is allowed to do whatever she wants and stay above half points longer.

17 hours ago, SabineKey said:

Might not be with Clusters and Munitions Failsafe. Throw in Jostero to trigger off G4R, and you might have a damaging little combo.

Does it really work? If you cancel all results With munitions failsafe are you still forced to defend?

4 minutes ago, RoockieBoy said:

Does it really work? If you cancel all results With munitions failsafe are you still forced to defend?

Yes, you are still the defender of an attack.