Greetings, Deathwatch fans!

This week, I have a guest designer diary from Owen Barnes about Missions , a framework for adventures in the Deathwatch RPG.

Sounds great. I feel the mission system will add a good militaristic flavor to the kill-team games and really like the idea of the Objectives and Complications.

The oath system sounds interesting and I like the idea of it adding player induced complications to the mission by possibily running contrary to potential decisions they are forced to make on the ground.

Looking forward to learning more.

Can you actually say something about it? This is pretty vague. Should have at least gave an example of everything presented.

Cardinal Nicodemus said:

Yes it was very vague...

I'm not saying that it is a bad thing, since the whole Primary and Secondary (etc.) Mission is a part of the whole military genre. On the other hand, the rest sounds pretty... video game again. On the other hand, if they are guidelines rather than customisable bolt-ons then that's great, solid advice.

Kage

"Hai gaiz,
Buy Deathwatch becuz it haz cool stuffs in its. Mishuns and objektives.
It's cool."

Yes, we're quite sick of really vague Designer Diaries.

Still, this was fine as it did actually tell us something. We have a few more mechanics now - Missions, Objectives, Complications and Oaths. And as time goes on I'm sure the Project Iceberg NDA's will allow for some detail to be given.

BYE

I can't go into specifics for obvious reasons; but I can comment on this a bit.

The Missions portion of Deathwatch is done very well IMHO. I was the GM for a play test group and I felt the system was very easy to create "adventures" for the team with. They will be especially helpful for newer GM's as it provides a nice structured method for making your group "do stuff". I will say that this system is mostly fluff and role play, rather than lots of mechanics and dice rolling.

Its simple and gets the job done. It will be very easy for people to expand on if desired and offers a great basic framework for your adventure/mission/scenario/etc.

As much as I want to find out about Missions, Oaths, Objectives and even the new Adversaries and Weapons, there's one thing above all else that I want to know.

Whom do you serve?

In Dark Heresy this is obvious - you're either an Acolyte or a Throne agent of an Inquisitor (and sometimes the Inquisitor himself, but often there are still Inquisitor's above even you). You're either working on something because you've been ordered to, or because you want to investigate something. In Rogue Trader it was also obvious - you're out there in the unknown territories as a Rogue Trader (or his crew) finding new paths through the Warp, new Trade Routes, and trying to get MOAR MONEY!!!2

But in Deathwatch are you... serving a higher DW Marine? The Ordo Xenos? Do the Ordo Xenos play any significant role in this (I hope they do, DW are kind've their Chamber Militant)?

So, what's the framing structure here? Whom do you serve?

BYE

kenshin138 said >>>

...I felt the system was very easy to create "adventures" for the team with.

It's horrible when all you can do is read context into the comments of people, but in this case the use of quotation marks might be considered... Well, it seems to imply that rather than advice and guidelines on how to structure a scenario, it's more in the way of mechanics for "rolling up" a scenario. Maybe a variation on the "encounter" mechanics from old-style D&D . (I use "old style" since I'm not familiar with the latest editions, so this may no longer be included.)

Again, that's a lot to read into the use of quotation marks but... Well, coupled with the "nice structured method for making your group 'do stuff'," it does tend to imply something. Maybe we're dealing with a "flowchart mission creator?"

Again, not saying that it is a bad thing. Maybe it will give a feel akin to the old Space Hulk video game (which I loved and would love to see a modified version of produced using modern technology), or the Space Hulk boardgame or cardgame?

Kage

Maybe it's just the way I inferred it, but his use of quotations around the word "adventures" could very well be that Space Marines don't go on adventures in the archetypical fashion one sees when talking about RPG's. These are supersoldiers on a mission afterall, not a band of treasure hunting heroes questing across the land in search of a mystical pendant. Again, this is just my own inference on the quoted word "adventures". Also, as far as I remember, the "encounter" mechanics in D&D were really just a guideline for sending appropriately challenging(ie:not necessarily TPK material, but not something the party steamrolls, either), well, encounters and the proper rewards gleaned from them. We'll just have to wait and see what comes next, and how integral the "Missions" rules are.

Lord Richter Castus said >>>

Maybe it's just the way I inferred it, but his use of quotations around the word "adventures" could very well be that Space Marines don't go on adventures in the archetypical fashion one sees when talking about RPG's.

Good call that person!

That's certainly another alternate interpretation just as, for example, "adventure" is a stand-in for "mission." With that said, I'm not sure that the "archetypal adventure" is a "band of treasure hunting heroes questing across the land in search of a mystical pendant." (Although GURPS has an sub-line dedicated to this style of game: Dungeon Fantasy !)

With the rest of the commentary, though? I'm not so sure. I eagerly await more information or the final product.

Kage

Kage2020 said:

Is it just me ... or does that sound awful?

No offence Kage old man, but I hope you're wrong with that speculation.

Adam France said:

Which bit?

There is, after all, a certain amount of "turning that frown upside down" going on here...

Kage

Lord Richter Castus said:

Sorry if it threw people off; but as said my intent was that Astartes don't really go on "adventures". I was trying to avoid using the word mission over and over again, nothing more.

As far as the ref. to the original space hulk game, unrelated to the Missions discussion, but I did use the term "we are the mailed fist of the Emperor" in the first DW mission I did in the play test. That was a quote I remember from the PC Space Hulk game that I loved so I threw it in.

Hopefully not going farther than I am allowed, but basically the Mission system lets you build an outline for the mission itself. Its an arbitrary system so doesn't use dice or anything really. Once that outline is built the GM can flesh it out. Its very much traditional adventure creation just with a nice way of presenting itself. It is pretty rules-light and easy to understand. It is however a core mechanic/system of the game and several other things key off of it. Can't go into anymore detail there though.

Adam France said:

Rolling up adventures from a flowchart mission creator, that creates a feel akin to a shoot-em-up video game or card game.

kenshin138 said:

Which makes it sound more like genre advice than anything else, which seems eminently more reasonableand perhaps less worrisome to Adam Francethan a "mission generator" that involves random rolls determining the nature of the mission involved. Since this was an informative response, you probably just went beyond the NDA, kenshin138.

Kage

I don't want to sound offensive, but... seriously, people. It's supposed to be a game about elite "black ops" super-soldiers kicking butt in the name of the Emperor. So how is it either surprising or inappropriate that the game employs a mission system for tracking objectives?

Errr... I think that you'll see the "resistance," insofar as it is resistance, is to the premise of an "adventure creator." While not inherently bad (giving it the flavour of, say, Space Hulk ), kenshin138 seems to have cleared it up, suggesting that it is very appropriate genre advice. As it stood, the Designer's Diary began to sound like it was setting up Deathwatch to be some form of interim game that encouraged, say, the introduction of "mission cards," "Team Mode cards," etc. Again, not inherently a bad thing but...

So, seriously, I think that everything should be taken with a pinch of salt. It is, after all, a discussion board. Please also note that most people seem to be looking forward to it, even those that aren't going to be using the system.

Kage

I was just going to not really comment, but in the spirit of honesty I can say personally, at this time, I'm not particularly stoked about this game. I don't know enough really yet to say I won't buy it - I'm interested in the fluff for the DW itself for example, and I hope the Jericho Reach is better than it sounds in the DD and has some setting stuff I can use. However rules wise and the limited sounding nature of several aspects of the game, judging only of course on the DDs released to date, I'm totally underwhelmed by the whole thing.

Btw, I'm getting niggled by the fact the DDs only show members of 'the Paltry 6' Chapters. The DW is not limited to those Chapters, even if the game itself is. I don't see why some other Chapters couldn't be shown in the art. Small point, just saying is all.

Adam France said:

Because that would lead people to wondering why they can't play those Chapters. Obviously FFG doesn't want that. They are hoping that most people don't question the ridiculously limited Chapter choices, and putting pictures of other Chapters in the book would not be conducive to that.

First of all, wether the mission designer will be GM selected or random generated (or combination of the 2, the first thing I can see is a selection of Cards (probably in the DW GM ToolKit) for player reference. Be nice if this sort of thing was included in the original game, but I imagine costs wouldn't allow it.

I recall a long time ago a series of Random Adventure Designers, and tbh they were actually quite good. I am pretty sure it was for D&D, and expanded on the random tables at the back of the original AD&D DM's handbook!

The main issue I foresee with DW from what I have read is that there is a lot of details about combat and blowing shizzle up, and for some part of it, yes this is what we want, but it isn't all we want.

Certainly for 1-shot adventures this is going to be fun, and lends itself brilliantly to tournemant play. TBH if this is all it will be, role out Space Hulk/Space Crusade/40K table-top.

What I would like to see is more on intrigue, politics and actual examples of roleplay opportunites that don't just involve blowing up xenos.

Maybe it's not possible though, bearing in mind the limited scope of the games brief.

Nope, as said before, the "missions" don't involve a random generator, so no need to worry about that. I'd also say that it's not so hard that "Mission Cards" would be at all necessary.

FatPob said:

I'm pretty certain the military focus doesn't preclude heavy roleplaying. The most RP-heavy campaign I have ever played was a military campaign where we were stuck between the base and various battlefields.

The way I understand it, DW doesn't do clean-cut missions in the vein of, "there are five Xenos to kill on an empty plain, you will parachute down into firing range, enjoy the kill". It's more like: "The Imperial Guard is holding off the Eldar forces. You will engage from the side and take out the Farseer before he activates the Unbelievably Complex Xeno Gizmo that would wipe all the humans out. The estimate number of Eldar forces is XY, and they have heavy equipment on their side. Plan this carefully."

From such a point, there's lot of things to do that don't involve shooting Xenos, and a lot of questions to make the problem more complex. Can you requisition the support of the Imperial Guard? What does their Commander think about this? Is any Inquisitor personally involved? Is your intel on the Gizmo's location accurate? Does the Gizmo really work as you presume? What if destroying it actually creates more problems?

That's just off the top of my head, and just about direct complications to the mission. Add the interpersonal relations of Marines from different Chapters to the mix, along with some politics at the HQ, and you have all the roleplaying possibilities you need. And yes, you'll be annihilating platoons of Xenos on your way. Combat doesn't hamper or interfere with the roleplaying.

Kage2020 said:

And btw Military Mission is in RPG a variant of adventure, i run a few especially in Space Gothic where alll PCs where Members of the Kniigtly Militant Order of the faring Cross, a part of terran military.