Got a question:

If a Tie/ba lands on a gas cloud, can he use Fine Tuned Thrusters to fail the barrel roll over the gas cloud to acquire a focus token through Composure?

Cheers!

28 minutes ago, Ryuneke said:

Got a question:

If a Tie/ba lands on a gas cloud, can he use Fine Tuned Thrusters to fail the barrel roll over the gas cloud to acquire a focus token through Composure?

Cheers!

yes. acquiring the focus token by performing a focus action granted to you by composure, that is.

" fine tuned thrusters: after you fully execute a maneuver, if you are not depleted or strained, you may gain 1 deplete or strain token to perform a (lock) or (barrel roll) action."

Does the ship still end up with the deplete/strain token, if it attempts this roll? After all, failing a maneuver results in "resolving it in an alternate way" (not an actual quote). I would expect the ship to still pay the costs for the action, even if it fails.

15 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:

Does the ship still end up with the deplete/strain token, if it attempts this roll? After all, failing a maneuver results in "resolving it in an alternate way" (not an actual quote). I would expect the ship to still pay the costs for the action, even if it fails.

Currently we've have nothing concrete, but since a failed red action still costs a stress I think it is very likely that gaining Deplete and Strain using this ability will follow the same rule.

Yes, because it is the cost you pay to perform the action. And also you still performed the action, even though it failed.

3 hours ago, Singulativ said:

Yes, because it is the cost you pay to perform the action. And also you still performed the action, even though it failed.

this. failing the action is just resolving it in a default way.

(please note that it doesn't count as though you've performed an action for the purpose of other effects.)

11 hours ago, Singulativ said:

And also you still performed the action, even though it failed.

No, failed actions do not count as being performed'. They count as being failed.

Quote

...a ship cannot perform the same action more than once during a single round, or perform an action it has failed this round.

If failed actions were still 'performed', the rules would not need to make this distinction. Failed actions resolved as failed, not as performed.

6 hours ago, Lyianx said:

If failed actions were still 'performed', the rules would not need to make this distinction. Failed actions resolved as failed, not as performed.

That is a clarification that even a failed action has been performed and therefore cannot be performed again.

To perform an action is independent from the outcome and the RR does not distinct between perform and failure of an action under the description of Action . To fail an action is just a special outcome for certain actions.

The cost of an ability has to be paid in order to attempt resolving the ability.

The cost is the ability is "refunded" if the ability fails to resolve.

Performing an action resolves it positively / with action counting as being performed.

Failing to perform an action* also resolves the action, negatively, with the default effect (e.g. not moving the ship for failed boosts and barrel rolls) / with action counting as having failed.

An exemplary scenario of costs being refunded on an action that didn't succeed would happen should a ship fail to focus - given there's no default procedure leading to focus failing, this action can only resolve positively or be cancelled and not resolved at all.

That being said, there is no way for a ship to fail to focus.

* Out of the list of actions that can fail, page 11 of RR.

5 hours ago, Singulativ said:

That is a clarification that even a failed action has been performed and therefore cannot be performed again.

To perform an action is independent from the outcome and the RR does not distinct between perform and failure of an action under the description of Action . To fail an action is just a special outcome for certain actions.

This is not quite correct; failed actions have not been performed. A n ability that triggers after you perform a barrel roll action would not trigger after a failed barrel roll action (this is what @Lyianx was getting at).

So you have not actually performed the action, but the attempt has been resolved, and by rule the same action cannot be attempted again.

2 hours ago, Maui. said:

This is not quite correct; failed actions have not been performed. A n ability that triggers after you perform a barrel roll action would not trigger after a failed barrel roll action (this is what @Lyianx was getting at).

Which is a special rule of fail and necessary to overrule the linked action from the performed action:

Quote

- An effect that fails does not trigger any effects that would occur after a ship resolves that effect.
- If an action fails, the player does not choose a different action to perform and cannot choose to resolve the effect in a different way.
- If an action fails, since the action was not completed, that ship cannot perform a linked action.

Notice that nowhere is mentioned that the action was not performed, but rather not completed and the effect resolved in a default way.

On 12/26/2019 at 9:21 AM, Singulativ said:

Notice that nowhere is mentioned that the action was not performed, but rather not completed and the effect resolved in a default way.

RR pg 28

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Q: If a ship attempts a purple action (such as a [barrel roll] or [boost] action) and fails the action, must it still spend the [force]?
A: Yes. A purple action's [force] cost is a "cost to attempt to perform [that] purple action" (see Actions) and is still paid even if the action fails.

Notice they say even when failed, not 'performed'. Again, they wouldn't need to make that distinction if failed actions were also considered "performed". They would just say "attempt to to perform that action"
Also it says " Attempt to perform ", meaning its not guaranteed it will be performed. And stress has the same wording under Actions on pg 3

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* As a cost to attempt to perform a red action, a ship must gain 1 stress token.
* As a cost to attempt to perform a purple action, a ship must spend 1 [force]

I think its fairly evident that when they say "performed" they mean "resolved normally" or 'not resolved in a failed way". Otherwise, you are saying Darth Vader (x1) can trigger his ability off actions hes failed... Which he cannot.



And as you quoted..

Quote

If an action fails, since the action was not completed , that ship cannot perform a linked action.

consequently...

Quote

After a ship performs an action with an attached linked action, if the player wants to resolve the linked action, it is added to the ability queue.

Both the above texts seem to quite clearly mean, completing an action, is the same as performing it, and failing an action does not complete it.