Chopper [Rebel crew] has an ability that allows you to perform an action while stressed, at the cost of a damage or an exposed damage card. But... here's how it's actually worded:

My question is: why isn't this considered an additional action? Other abilities/effects that use the same language ("you may perform 1 action") are granting you an additional action:

Coordinate itself even uses this language: "The chosen ship performs one action."

RAW, then, it would appear that Chopper allows a ship to perform an action in the Perform Action step, in addition to the action it would normally be afforded during the Perform Action step.

I searched the rules forum and the FAQ; no references to this ability. Am I missing something obvious here?

Chopper doesn't designate a new timing unlike the other effects you outlined.

The other abilities designate a timing and grant an action, using language that is identical to Chopper's ability.

Contrast with AP-5, whose ability is similar to the way Chopper's is presumed to function:

Chopper's ability could have been worded similarly: "During the perform action step, if you have a stress token, you may perform 1 action. After you perform an action while stressed..."

But instead, he's worded the same way as abilities and effects that grant additional actions.

1 hour ago, Maui. said:

But instead, he's worded the same way as abilities and effects that grant additional actions.

@Maui. I believe you make a valid point based on precedent of the other cards given as examples. In the absence of specific definitions in the rulebook, precedent of ruling is what we have to go on. And the precedent indicates that the phrase, "you may perform 1 action," grants an action in addition to the one granted by the standard Perform Action step.

Why FFG? Why did you create the defined term Bonus Attack and delete the term Free Action at the same time?

19 minutes ago, nitrobenz said:

@Maui. I believe you make a valid point based on precedent of the other cards given as examples. In the absence of specific definitions in the rulebook, precedent of ruling is what we have to go on. And the precedent indicates that the phrase, "you may perform 1 action," grants an action in addition to the one granted by the standard Perform Action step.

Why FFG? Why did you create the defined term Bonus Attack and delete the term Free Action at the same time?

An extra action during every Perform Action step, that can be taken even while stressed though that incurs a painful cost, for only 1 point...

Before I get too far into thinking about this....

Is there ANY combo that would allow you to take an extra action while stressed, then remove a stress, and take your normal action???

Similar to Nien and PA?

54 minutes ago, JBFancourt said:

Before I get too far into thinking about this....

Is there ANY combo that would allow you to take an extra action while stressed, then remove a stress, and take your normal action???

Similar to Nien and PA?

Not in Rebels that I'm aware of, though what is being postulated is that Chopper crew enables a ship to take an additional action during the Perform action step while the ship is unstressed in addition to the while stressed action he enables for the cost of taking a damage or flipping an already dealt damage card.

What I'm really wondering about this combo of cards is how you're putting rebel crew on a resistance ship.

To be clear, I don't actually believe that Chopper is supposed to work this way--if nothing else, his 1 point cost is proof enough of that. My issue is that, RAW, I think the card reads a certain way that it shouldn't.

Just now, Cerebrawl said:

What I'm really wondering about this combo of cards is how you're putting rebel crew on a resistance ship.

I'm not. This isn't about a combo of cards, it's about Chopper.

16 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Not in Rebels that I'm aware of, though what is being postulated is that Chopper crew enables a ship to take and additional action during the Perform action step while the ship is unstressed in addition to the while stressed action he enables for the cost of taking a damage or flipping an already dealt damage card.

OHHHHHH.... gotcha. So the idea is you get an extra action at the cost of a Hull.

Yeah. I’ll add this to my list of things to try to sneak past at league night:

Chopper double action build

bb8 white boost

brocket scyk

DBM Poe.

😜 😜

Just now, JBFancourt said:

OHHHHHH.... gotcha. So the idea is you get an extra action at the cost of a Hull.

Yeah. I’ll add this to my list of things to try to sneak past at league night:

Chopper double action build

bb8 white boost

brocket scyk

DBM Poe.

No. The idea is that you get an extra action every turn at the cost of 1 squad point. Every perform action step, if you're not stressed, you get to perform two actions.

1 minute ago, JBFancourt said:

OHHHHHH.... gotcha. So the idea is you get an extra action at the cost of a Hull.

2 actions per Perform Action step. 1 action if stressed for the cost of either a hit damage or flipping a damage card.

1 minute ago, Maui. said:

No. The idea is that you get an extra action every turn at the cost of 1 squad point. Every perform action step, if you're not stressed, you get to perform two actions.

Amazing! This is would really make the ghost meta 😁 😁 😁

11 hours ago, Maui. said:

No. The idea is that you get an extra action every turn at the cost of 1 squad point. Every perform action step, if you're not stressed, you get to perform two actions.

Ok, ive had time to think about this abit and ill say, i dont see this as overriding.

The rule for Activation phase reads:

Quote

Perform Action: The ship may perform one action.

So, the rule book is restricting you to 1 action *during* the perform action step. And as far as i can read, Chopper, if nothing else, is just being redundant in re-iterating the same rule, while adding an additional circumstance.

Quote

During the Perform Action step, you may perform 1 action

Its poor wording, but even linked actions are not actually performed *during* the perform action step. And as far as i can remember, abilities that grant additional actions, do so specifically outside of the perform action step.

His wording should probably read..

Quote

During the Perform Action step, you may perform actions, even while stressed.

So, i think im on the side of no.. its not 2 actions during the Perform Action step.

@Lyianx

I don’t think this is correct. Linked actions are still in the Perform Action Step. Unless I’ve missed something. What triggers them is the action not the step, but you’re still in that step. Thus, they can be triggered at other times too.

Also, “Perform One Action” by itself does not limit you to ONLY one action. See Pattern Analyzer vs Advanced Sensors.

Thoughts? 🤔

38 minutes ago, JBFancourt said:

@Lyianx

I don’t think this is correct. Linked actions are still in the Perform Action Step. Unless I’ve missed something. What triggers them is the action not the step, but you’re still in that step. Thus, they can be triggered at other times too.

Also, “Perform One Action” by itself does not limit you to ONLY one action. See Pattern Analyzer vs Advanced Sensors.

Thoughts? 🤔

Quote

Activation
Perform Action: The ship may perform one action.

Quote

Linked Actions
After a ship performs an action with an attached linked action,

After you perform the action, granted by the perform action step, you are past the perform action step.

Again, im confident Chopper's wording (poor as it is) is for clarification of the existing rule for the step, not in addition to.

Yeah. This is a tough one. I am sure that the "intention" of the phrasing "perform 1 action, even while stressed" ( as opposed to "perform actions, even while stressed") is to deny any further linked actions (or other ability actions) while stressed, limiting the exception to a single action during the Perform Action Step. However, yeah, the new phrasing is similar to other phrasing that grants an action irrespective of the Perform Action Step action. However, however, I do think include the timing window language on the card "during the Perform Action Step" focuses the ability to the action that normally occurs during that step, and simply modifies it, granting the ability to perform your action (one action only) while stressed.

I am an Empire / FO player, so I am not sure of the full ramification of this, except to say "You Rebel Scum!" if I was playing against someone who interpreted it this way. 🙂

- It’s redundant text; because
- It lacks the word '1 additional action'.
- It’s way to cheap if it would allow you to perform two actions a turn!

fun fact: the HWK and Attack Shuttle are the only two rebel ships with both a crew slot .... and linked actions!

So technically they can indeed perform two actions , but at the cost of two damage.

merry X-Mas-Wing

edit: well, IMHO, of course!

Additionally I’ve got no idea when linked actions are performed: is it during the perform action step? If not then when: there is no name for a timing/step for linked actions.

If HWK or Shuttle would actually use that — they do kill them selfs with 4/5 total health. So I’d happily allow it. 😈 😉

I am reasonably sure that linked actions happen during the same timing window as the action they are linked to. In the case of the Perform Action step, consider the ion maneuver. Ion tokens are removed until a ship finishes its activation, which concludes with the Perform Action step; but ships cannot link focus > other actions in their perform action step, because they are still ionized, which means that it must still be the Perform Action step.

29 minutes ago, Tellonius said:

- It’s redundant text; because
- It lacks the word '1 additional action'.

There are several examples of abilities that provide an additional action using the language "may perform 1 action." There are no (other) examples of a card that uses this language without providing an additional action. This is the root of the problem: it's quite obvious (at least, I think) how Chopper is supposed to work, but when you compare the language of his ability to other abilities, things start to get murky.

I agree; and murky it is.

...the differences I see are:

- additional actions are granted only outside the perform action step, eg. PA, or are explicitly mentioned, Nodin.

- AP5 doesn’t allow linked actions (because... see the other thread).

—> as Chopper's 2nd action would happen exactly at the same time as your normal action - I definitely miss some mentioning of it being a 2nd one!

hm...

14 hours ago, Maui. said:

but ships cannot link focus > other actions in their perform action step, because they are still ionized, which means that it must still be the Perform Action step.

To be super ultra technical, there is a possible timing window after the perform action step that can trigger before the end of the activation. Nothing (that im aware of) operates in this window, but its there.

11 hours ago, Lyianx said:

To be super ultra technical, there is a possible timing window after the perform action step that can trigger before the end of the activation. Nothing (that im aware of) operates in this window, but its there.