10 hours ago, Norsehound said:

TLJ left us with some interesting questions and thoughts. What of the Skywalker legacy, now that the saber is broken and its last member is committed to the side of evil? What if the Jedi/Sith split understanding of the force is, in fact, wrong? What of the arms merchants perpetuating war so they can profit off it? Can Rey be a hero even though she comes from nothing?

NOPE! Here's your cheap cameos, a re-heated villain from the original trilogy, and some useless facts that don't matter to the plot. Enjoy moments that nobody asked for like Chewbacca finally getting his gold medallion from ANH!

Yeah, after letting the movie sit for a few days now, I'm really feeling this.

Even more so after considering all the bad TLJ retcons. Like, even if the plan was to retcon so that the fans upset by TLJ could return, why were they so poorly executed? Snoke wasn't just metaphorically "created" by Palpatine through the influence of Sith power he left in the unknown for Snoke to discover. Snoke wasn't led to believe he was the new seat of power by Palpatine through manipulation and planning ( as is ole grandpapa palpy's specialty) Nope, literally here's a tank full of Snokes... He was LITERALLY created by Palps... Or the fact that they bothered to bring up the Holdo maneuver (just like SO MANY disgruntled fans did) suggesting to use it to defeat the destroyers, and Poe says "That's a one in a million chance" clarifying that Holdo got incalculably lucky and that it wasn't a valid battle strategy (thus filling the gaps left in TLJ on why warfare didn't use it more often). Then they put a foot in their own mouth and show it happening again over Endor (I think? One of the resurgents at the end). Why? I liked Finn realizing he had force powers... but I get the feeling it was only added to retcon a short scene in TFA where he fought a severely injured Kylo and lost...

I enjoyed TLJ, and I expected and even welcomed retconning, but some of it was half baked.

I wont say I hated the movie, it was a Star War, it was fun to watch, and it's certainly not the worst of the series... but it was blatant and poorly executed mass appeal.

1 hour ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Or the fact that they bothered to bring up the Holdo maneuver (just like SO MANY disgruntled fans did) suggesting to use it to defeat the destroyers, and Poe says "That's a one in a million chance" clarifying that Holdo got incalculably lucky and that it wasn't a valid battle strategy (thus filling the gaps left in TLJ on why warfare didn't use it more often). Then they put a foot in their own mouth and show it happening again over Endor (I think? One of the resurgents at the end). Why?

I understand that, but I dont think thats what we saw over Endor. I might be wrong (very short scene) but who would even be there to do that?

As for the Finn thing, having rewatched TFA this last week, when Finn gets a feeling on something, you can hear the force sound. Like when his buddies hand bloodies his helmet. I personally think Finn is sensitive, but not like, full blown way. Like the other Stormtroopers that deserted, the force guided them to their intended destination. Because lets be honest, if the FO wasnt testing for force sensitives then they were stupid.

Finn being force sensitive goes back to The Force Awakens.

Hes a kidnapped child, in this universe some of them are bound to be force sensitive.

Kylo Ren seemed to sense something about Finn at the beginning when Kylo is returning to his ship and Finn is just standing there.

1 hour ago, Ling27 said:

Like the other Stormtroopers that deserted, the force guided them to their intended destination.

Had a theory on that. If Grandpapa Palpy was still on the DS II when it blew up, and that planet was where he landed, with the debris. Maybe that "feeling" they had to flee there was Palpatine's influence? As a means of escape? Used one of their ships to flee to the unknown regions? They kinda left it wide open but it would make sense.

I don’t really understood how the Holdo manoeuvre was a 1 in a million chance? You point your ship at the absurdly huge ship & press go on the engines.

What was 1 in a million was why a) an admiral chose to dress in her best evening gown & b) she didn’t line the ship up & get a droid to press go on the engines... 🤷‍♂️

16 minutes ago, ISD Avenger said:

I don’t really understood how the Holdo manoeuvre was a 1 in a million chance? You point your ship at the absurdly huge ship & press go on the engines.

What was 1 in a million was why a) an admiral chose to dress in her best evening gown & b) she didn’t line the ship up & get a droid to press go on the engines... 🤷‍♂️

As I understand from the Novelization (which spells it out better, because... writing), its a combo from the prototype shields on the Raddus, and the distance between Raddus and Supremacy was just right? I might be wrong, but thats why its a 1/1mil chance.

1 hour ago, Ling27 said:

I dont think thats what we saw over Endor. I might be wrong (very short scene) but who would even be there to do that?

My friends all seemed to think it was a Holdo Maneuver, who did it, or with what is an unknown, but that's kinda the point, if it's one in a million why did they show it happening again?

1 minute ago, Darth Sanguis said:

My friends all seemed to think it was a Holdo Maneuver, who did it, or with what is an unknown, but that's kinda the point, if it's one in a million why did they show it happening again?

Like I said, I dont think thats what we saw, and if it was... then yeah. Id like to know the how.

25 minutes ago, ISD Avenger said:

I don’t really understood how the Holdo manoeuvre was a 1 in a million chance? You point your ship at the absurdly huge ship & press go on the engines.

What was 1 in a million was why a) an admiral chose to dress in her best evening gown & b) she didn’t line the ship up & get a droid to press go on the engines... 🤷‍♂️

7 minutes ago, Ling27 said:

As I understand from the Novelization (which spells it out better, because... writing), its a combo from the prototype shields on the Raddus, and the distance between Raddus and Supremacy was just right? I might be wrong, but thats why its a 1/1mil chance.

In the Novelization. The reason Holdo was able to do it had nothing to do with the shields but the position of the ships in relation to the entry hyperspace coordinates. Poe set the coordinates to jump so once he got the go ahead from Finn, they could escape, when that didn't happen those coordinates were still logged. The supremacy had passed between the raddus and the entry coordinates creating a perfect cross section for the maneuver and the perfect distance to actually hit the ship before entering hyperspace.

Half right, close enough.

I noticed an mc 140 scythe in the fleet of the people right before Palpatine disintegrated it.

1 hour ago, ISD Avenger said:

I don’t really understood how the Holdo manoeuvre was a 1 in a million chance? You point your ship at the absurdly huge ship & press go on the engines.

What was 1 in a million was why a) an admiral chose to dress in her best evening gown & b) she didn’t line the ship up & get a droid to press go on the engines... 🤷‍♂️

50 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

In the Novelization. The reason Holdo was able to do it had nothing to do with the shields but the position of the ships in relation to the entry hyperspace coordinates. Poe set the coordinates to jump so once he got the go ahead from Finn, they could escape, when that didn't happen those coordinates were still logged. The supremacy had passed between the raddus and the entry coordinates creating a perfect cross section for the maneuver and the perfect distance to actually hit the ship before entering hyperspace.

I never read the novel, but from the movie it seemed implied that the Raddus could have been destroyed before it made the jump, but Hux ordered the crew to ignore that ship and focus on the transports instead. Since the Raddus wasn't running from the Supremacy anymore, I assumed it was within range where the canons could destroy it. But Hux ignored the ship, giving it time to set the coordinates and jump before the canons could do any damage to it.
So in any other instance, a ship attempting that maneuver would be destroyed as it prepped for the jump.

I like the novelization's explanation of it though. There really wouldn't have been a time or place to explain that in the movie without giving away the big surprise that was one of the coolest shots in Star Wars ever.

First order, then the Last order.

Palpatine clearly new the importance of order, and the particular value of the last/first combination.

2 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

In the Novelization. The reason Holdo was able to do it had nothing to do with the shields but the position of the ships in relation to the entry hyperspace coordinates. Poe set the coordinates to jump so once he got the go ahead from Finn, they could escape, when that didn't happen those coordinates were still logged. The supremacy had passed between the raddus and the entry coordinates creating a perfect cross section for the maneuver and the perfect distance to actually hit the ship before entering hyperspace.

It was an accident. That’s what happens sometimes when you don’t astrogate properly. Shoulda kept a droid on board for that.

A lot of people online are now talking about the parts of Last Jedi they loved, and my continued theory that people will hate the newest thing until the next newest thing is out maintains itself.

Halo

Gears

Star Wars

Warhammer

All these franchises in the last few years have released a game (or, movie in Star Wars' case) that was generally disliked, until the new one came out. Then suddenly the one that was getting hate is loved. Which is why I will always stick to my guns about what I enjoy. I enjoyed 7, 8 and now 9. I dont care that people have their own issues with it, because those dont effect me, and they will eventually change their tune.

What saddens me is there are fans of The Last Jedi that are speaking about the new film in a similar manner as the haters of TLJ.

Don't be saddened. Just let people gush or complain as they will.

14 hours ago, mhd said:

First order, then the Last order.

Palpatine clearly new the importance of order, and the particular value of the last/first combination.

Then shouldn’t it have been Last Order THEN First Order?

2 hours ago, Tayloraj100 said:

Then shouldn’t it have been Last Order THEN First Order?

Kinda was, because we only saw the FO lose a destroyer and some leadership, whereas the Last Orders is already gone.

It won’t happen but how about this:

A post Rise of Skywalker Thrawn Trilogy.

So I just watched it last night. Their are parts that I enjoyed and parts that I didn't, but the actual "fleet battle" was a huge disappointment for me.

All those ships..... and no capital ship to ship combat? Super force lighting from palps disables like 75% of them and you dont see much in the way of naval combat.

I got super excited when all those ship arrived but alas...

Starfighter combat was good though.

Since I haven't seen an answer online...

Did I miss something in the movie or is there still one of those planet killing Star Destroyers (Xyston Class) at large in the Galaxy? You know, the one that blew up that planet? Where did that one end up?

46 minutes ago, Arcanis161 said:

Did I miss something in the movie or is there still one of those planet killing Star Destroyers (Xyston Class) at large in the Galaxy? You know, the one that blew up that planet? Where did that one end up?

Unless it returned to Exegol, yep, it is out there somewhere.

Also, I think it is a film that is a lot better the second time through. Second time you don't have to pay as much attention to what's going on and what's about to happen (and which McGuffin they're after right now), and can instead focus on how it feels and looks.

4 hours ago, Arcanis161 said:

Since I haven't seen an answer online...

Did I miss something in the movie or is there still one of those planet killing Star Destroyers (Xyston Class) at large in the Galaxy? You know, the one that blew up that planet? Where did that one end up?

I too wondered about that. It has to be out there somewhere still.

And that one can actually use it's deflector shields.

From what ive seen of it...they are bigger than an imperial one class but that big ol super laser on the bottom of them makes them super vulnerable to any kind of attack. Kind of a dum design without any escort fleet.

What the **** did I just watch? I seriously have no idea. There was about five movies crammed in here, two of which looked pretty good.

Baby Yoda save us! It's all on your tiny little shoulders now.