So getting into some of the Rebels with 2.0 and all I have is the little pod craft, but wanted to see if it was worthwhile to hunt down an attack shuttle??

What have others flown with the ghost to make it great?

thanks!!

Honestly, it's probably best not to bother attaching stuff to the Ghost.

• Docked Attack Shuttle is basically a 34 point Veteran Tail Gunner, an upgrade no one takes at 4 points. Attack Shuttle isn't a terrible ship: it's got a big gun for the price, Sabine's ability is good, but it's probably not worth too much effort to buy/find one.
• Sheathipede being docked doesn't add anything, but gains some protection.
  • There might be potential tricks with Hera Syndulla and Composure with a docked Sheathipede (if no one is close to Hera, the Coordinate fails and she gets a pre-move Focus action), but it's way too expensive to be actually good. Heck, it won't even be mediocre. It'll just be cute.

As to the best Ghost builds... hard to say. Overall, keep them as cheap as possible.

• Kanan should hit fairly hard, but probably isn't worth the cost (some combination of Heighened Perception, Passive Sensors, and/or Magva Yarro are probably best).
• Lothal Rebel or Chopper with Passive Sensors and Saw Gurerra will hit like a truck, but could get burned down wicked easy. Zeb is probably worth it if going Chopper, but Lothal is cheaper and probably better.
• Hera Syndulla is a high-initiative ship with a big gun. She could carry Leia, or maybe have something like Nien Nunb, Zeb, and Intimidation to smack into someone and light them up. Niether will be too impressive, but is probably sorta kinda playable.
  • Of course, Hera is frustrating to build around in the sense that it's pretty much impossible to be fully confident she actually works now. I wouldn't be at all surprised for any of FFGs rulings on how maneuver difficulty changing abilities work to go any way for or against. This makes me hesitant with Nien Nunb, Leia, Seasoned Navigator, or anything else which changes moves around. I'm sure some folks will claim to have a perfect understanding of how it works. I really don't trust any of it. FFG's maneuver difficulty rulings are kind of what made me give up on trying to hard to understand how any rules work anymore.

In 1e, all the VCX had very powerful Systems upgrades. Sensor Jammer was pretty strong. The old version of Fire Control System was a huge amount of action economy on a cheap VCX. Accuracy Corrector was incredibly powerful with the turrets the Ghost used. Now? Nothing provides that defensive power or offensive action economy. The few action economy crew that exist are wicked expensive. The weaker defensive statline requires a Reinforce (which is powerful), but then it gets really hard to dice mods for the 4-dice gun.

Honestly, every time I field my VCX, I end up thinking "Man, I want this ship to be cool.... but it just sucks". It gets burned down faster then a Modified YT-1300, and due to it's main gun being forward arc only it's harder to get any use out of the VCX. A YT-1300 can at least fire at the enemy while maneuvering around asteroids and the like. Which can both annoy your opponent and provide some much needed defense. A VCX almost needs a turret upgrade, but your options are a 2 die turret with short range or an ion cannon turret with sort range. Not ideal.

9 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Honestly, it's probably best not to bother attaching stuff to the Ghost.

• Docked Attack Shuttle is basically a 34 point Veteran Tail Gunner, an upgrade no one takes at 4 points. Attack Shuttle isn't a terrible ship: it's got a big gun for the price, Sabine's ability is good, but it's probably not worth too much effort.
• Sheathipede being docked doesn't add anything, but gains some protection.
  • There might be potential tricks with Hera Syndulla and Composure with a docked Sheathipede (if no one is close to Hera, the Coordinate fails and she gets a pre-move Focus action), but it's way too expensive to be actually good. Heck, it won't even be mediocre. It'll just be cute.

As to the best Ghost builds... hard to say. Overall, keep them as cheap as possible.

• Kanan should hit fairly hard, but probably isn't worth the cost (some combination of Heighened Perception, Passive Sensors, and/or Magva Yarro are probably best).
• Lothal Rebel or Chopper with Passive Sensors and Saw Gurerra will hit like a truck, but could get burned down wicked easy. Zeb is probably worth it if going Chopper, but Lothal is cheaper and probably better.
• Hera Syndulla is a high-initiative ship with a big gun. She could carry Leia, or maybe have something like Nien Nunb, Zeb, and Intimidation to smack into someone and light them up. Niether will be too impressive, but is probably sorta kinda playable.
  • Of course, Hera is frustrating to build around in the sense that it's pretty much impossible to be fully confident she actually works now. I wouldn't be at all surprised for any of FFGs rulings on how maneuver difficulty changing abilities work to go any way for or against. This makes me hesitant with Nien Nunb, Leia, Seasoned Navigator, or anything else which changes moves around. I'm sure some folks will claim to have a perfect understanding of how it works. I really don't trust any of it. FFG's maneuver difficulty rulings are kind of what made me give up on trying to hard to understand how any rules work anymore.

In 1e, all the VCX had very powerful Systems upgrades. Sensor Jammer was pretty strong. The old version of Fire Control System was a huge amount of action economy on a cheap VCX. Accuracy Corrector was incredibly powerful with the turrets the Ghost used. Now? Nothing provides that defensive power or offensive action economy. The few action economy crew that exist are wicked expensive. The weaker defensive statline requires a Reinforce (which is powerful), but then it gets really hard to dice mods for the 4-dice gun.

Why ohhh why you have to remind me of Hera Accuracy Corrector Autoblaster turrets.... waahhhh.

I am so glad that those upgrades arent combos anymore.

The way I have seen to build something that can be worth its cost:

- Crew : Saw Guerrera and Leia. Action economy, you can reinforce with your action and still mod your dices

- Airen Cracken as wingman: gives red action to take a lock after movement phase. Can be deadly

I tried to play with Hera, Luke and Airen. It hits really hard, but it all depends of what you are facing. If you are facing a vulture swarm, the ghost is out in 2 turns. If you are facing a 2-ship list, it can be really painful for your opponent, since you have 3 guns, and 2 of them can be double modded.

Something like this at 199pts

This is all very depressing.

Question: are we clamoring for more action economy because we're addicted to 1.0 brokenness, or is it because the Ghost is a big chunk of your list and needs to pull the weight of several ships?

1 minute ago, Parakitor said:

This is all very depressing.

Question: are we clamoring for more action economy because we're addicted to 1.0 brokenness, or is it because the Ghost is a big chunk of your list and needs to pull the weight of several ships?

I'd say it's the latter. The ship wants to be a major player, but lacks the ability to actually do so. Is it an Ordinance platform? Not really. You can give the VCX a torpedo upgrade, but she can't reload once your 2 or 3 shots are taken. Maybe she's a turret ship like the Falcon? No, not really. To have a turret you have to pay for one of two upgrades. And neither of them are particularly helpful. An Ion Cannon Turret is slightly more useful then the other turret, but you'll rarely be able to mod the turret shot since you'll be spending your action to rotate turret a lot. Maybe it's a front line fighter? But she's not particularly maneuverable. Or survivable since it's easy to out maneuver the VCX, thus negating the benefit of Reinforce. And if you're Reinforcing, you're not modding your dice.

I really want to like the ship, but I'm just having trouble figuring out how you're suppose to use a VCX other then "expensive distraction that gets blown up within 2 or 3 turns".

19 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

Why ohhh why you have to remind me of Hera Accuracy Corrector Autoblaster turrets.... waahhhh.

I am so glad that those upgrades arent combos anymore.

Yeah....some upgrades were taken out and shot for a reason. It wasn't a 'thing' at tournaments, but I did use accuracy corrector/cluster missile TIE/x1 a few times. Going " Remove your intact VT-49 Decimator. No, I don't need to actually roll dice " was just hideous.

9 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

Question: are we clamoring for more action economy because we're addicted to 1.0 brokenness, or is it because the Ghost is a big chunk of your list and needs to pull the weight of several ships?

I think that's my main issue with the Phantom II. The phantom uses the Tail Gun rule to give a 3-dice rear gun. Fine. You can argue about costing, but it's a 'good thing' which is nice and simple and doesn't really need explaining. The problem with Comms Shuttle is that co-ordinate isn't that useful on a ship which is going to be 100 points plus, which means you don't tend to have anything worth co-ordinating.

The suggestion of Hera with Composure is an interesting one, by the way. Pair it with someone with Lone Wolf and both ships gain a benefit from playing keep-away from one another.

13 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

This is all very depressing.

Question: are we clamoring for more action economy because we're addicted to 1.0 brokenness , or is it because the Ghost is a big chunk of your list and needs to pull the weight of several ships?

Not really, mostly this below:

36 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

Why ohhh why you have to remind me of Hera Accuracy Corrector Autoblaster turrets.... waahhhh.

I am so glad that those upgrades arent combos anymore.

I'm also happy the 1e Ghost BS doesn't exist anymore. However, I think it's handy to understand why the Ghost doesn't really work too well anymore.

A cheaply built Ghost probably isn't terrible. Certainly it isn't a spectacular, list-carrying ship. But as a blunt object battering ram, I think it's probably casual-night playable. Hera + Wedge + Luke fits when built cheap. That'd be a playable list, even if it's worse than other rebel lists.

21 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

The suggestion of Hera with Composure is an interesting one, by the way. Pair it with someone with Lone Wolf and both ships gain a benefit from playing keep-away from one another.

The trick which has been in my head is Passive Sensors. That means a ship cannot be coordinated, and I think that'd lead to a failed Coordinate, despite the ships being close. With a Passive Sensors/Saw Lothal Rebel, and it'd be a pair of Focus/Lock 4-dice guns. I don't think it'd be effective at winning tournaments, but kinda nasty and at least the games would be over fast, one way or another.

1 minute ago, theBitterFig said:

The trick which has been in my head is Passive Sensors. That means a ship cannot be coordinated, and I think that'd lead to a failed Coordinate, despite the ships being close.

You're probably right. Co-ordinate is the choosing a ship to grant a free action to - if you cannot be co-ordinated, you don't exist for the purposes of the co-ordinate action, and if you can't choose a target, the action fails (and unlike a lock, you can't end up chosing an obstacle or whatever).

As long as the other ship has locked out its co-ordinate-ability before the other activates (and as Hera is I5 it will have) that idea should work. Pair with Advanced Sensors (because 'before you activate' comes before 'after you reveal your dial') and Hera can focus, lock, then execute a red move - and since it's Hera, it can be any red move.

Since you're using Saw instead of Focusing, you might as well take Chopper - his ability is quite good since he's low enough initiative to generally be the blocker rather than blockee, and paired with Zeb you don't lose your shot if someone collides with you (which is often an annoyingly good way to avoid someone's arc, especially if you've got force charge or other passive modifiers).

It's an interesting squad. 8 red dice isn't a huge amount to throw per engagement phase, but throwing them as 2 4-dice, fully modified attacks is going to cause a lot of pain on anyone who thinks they brought ships which are hard to hurt.

The awkward thing about Chopper: if you block your opponent, they probably don't get any tokens, so most of the time the Jams probably don't do anything. As a ramming ship Chopper isn't too bad, but Init 2 is kind of low for ramming.

For the Advanced Sensors variant, I'd been kind of thinking an extra hull on both ships would be more value than the Jams from Chopper.

Also been thinking about a Leia variant, to do K-turns without stress (that's another nerf... the 4k isn't quite as good as the old 5k was, by and large). As sweet as Focus/Lock or Focus/Reinforce before moving is, maybe it's best to have the great red moves of the Ghost opened up.

I'd considered Nein Numb as crew for a VCX, but then realized it wouldn't help with any of the red maneuvers. Leia could help a lot, but my experience is that the ship just doesn't last long enough on the table for Leia to be useful since you kind of need to send the VCX into the furball directly.

The co-ordinate/composure trick might help with that a bit - using it for focus/lock on that lovely forward primary is the obvious use, but there's no reason you couldn't use it to generate a free reinforce instead.

Ultimately, it is an expensive trick, though.

If the ship still had the ability to fire torpedoes out the back, I'd consider it. I made great use of that on a Lothal Rebel at the end of 2nd Edition. Ion Torps out the back gives you a turn to flip around and reset.

I like my Ghost naked, won my last store tournament with Hera with only Leya as upgrade.

9 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

I made great use of that on a Lothal Rebel at the end of 2nd Edition.

The end of 2nd edition?! But 2nd edition is still going strong...

4 hours ago, Parakitor said:

Question: are we clamoring for more action economy because we're addicted to 1.0 brokenness, or is it because the Ghost is a big chunk of your list and needs to pull the weight of several ships?

As noted I think it is the latter. It needs to do work for its points and it doesn't. The VCX is both paying for its sins in first edition and paying for failure to properly sort out the changing difficulty of maneuver effects at the outset of 2nd Edition. I also think that most of the ideas for Ghost and the Rebels crew just ended up kind of "broken" and so they got dialed back into being unusable.

I said this in a prior discussion about the VCX but there were in my opinion supposed to be more shenanigans with Stress for the ship. Hera pilot should also have Hera crew ability. Then she has more synergy with Kanan and Ezra and Chopper. Hera being able to go sort of anywhere even if stressed would make up a bit for the weak turret options and the no evade dice.

Thing was they didn't sort out how change difficulty of maneuver effects should work and you couldn't have Hera Pilot with Hera Crew ability too, and Nien Nunb as change difficulty of maneuver effects were understood to work before the need to sort out "revealed maneuvers."

32 minutes ago, Faerie1979 said:

The end of 2nd edition?! But 2nd edition is still going strong...

Hahaha... Oops. End of 1st.

What was the 1.0 upgrade the ghost took that was spend a hit to do X, then they would use accuracy corrector to cancel die and add 2 hits. Then use the docked ship rule to do it again in the end phase. Not broken at all.

I can't recall any 1e Rebel hit-spending upgrades. I know Krennick/Accuracy Corrector could be used that way, but that's Empire. That's not to say the Ghost was fair by any means.

However, it also seems worth pointing out a big part of Ghost unfairness was the Fenn Rau Sheathipede. Without that secret sauce, even though many of the same Ghost tricks existed, they never really clicked. Ahsoka TIE kinda almost got there with Heragator, but