1 hour ago, Schanez said:

Resistance and First Order ships to be slightly more pricy. Rebel A-Wing has only a front arc for 30 points. Resistance A-Wing has a front and back arc, has access to additional Tech slot and costs 33 points. T-65 is 41 points. T-70 is 45. Difference? If you aim your bullseye, you do not suffer penalties for closing S-Foils, you get access to Tech slot and the ship has a Boost action now, regardless of S-Foils. Oh, and they have access to a Hardpoint, not a Torpedo slot.

Thats because both rebel RZ-1 Awing and T-65 are both overcosted for what they do. T-65 are only at 41 to not allow 5.

7 hours ago, RampancyTW said:

This is like saying Sinker shouldn't be more expensive than Wolffe. Mass rerolls are so much better than a single additional die.

Drea is I4, Kavil is I5. And Wolffe should be worth more. Sinker should be a lot cheaper.

12 minutes ago, KingmanHighborn said:

Drea is I4, Kavil is I5. And Wolffe should be worth more. Sinker should be a lot cheaper.

Umm, no.

Initiative is really good when a ship can arc-dodge. Y-wings and ARCs really can't do that much. Initiative is really good when you need to move your turret correctly, so Kavil being I5 is significant and he's costed for that.

Swarm-rerolls? That's a whole other gameplan and is rightly more expensive. Compare Howlrunner's cost with Mauler Mithel, and she's much more limited than either Sinker or Drea!

33 minutes ago, KingmanHighborn said:

Drea is I4, Kavil is I5. And Wolffe should be worth more. Sinker should be a lot cheaper.

Initiative is just a stat, friend, and just one of many things that goes into finding the correct price for a pilot. Some pilot abilities are so powerful that they demand the pilot be more expensive than it's higher initiative brethren.

See Sabine & Hera in the Attack Shuttle. Or Palob and Dace in the Scum HWK. Or Iden and Mauler. Jonus and Tomax.

I politely disagree. Initiative is also about who shoots first and that can be all the difference in a game. Drea at 4 is often nuked off the table or at least hit very hard by higher initiative ship lists.

Also the argument on Howl is a bit flat, as she's the most versatile of the ones you mentioned, not the most limited. As while she is the same initiative as Mauler, she has the better pilot ability. That does factor into the scoring. Iden is about the only ship worth it while being of a lesser initiative simply because of her anti-delete ship button. But back to Howl and limits. Drea only works on generics, and is 9 points MORE than Howl (by the time you slap on the necessary R4, turret and VTG it's even more). And she has to have the target in her firing arc which as you mentioned, higher initiatives can arc dodge, and that's even if she's using the turret to maximize coverage. Sinker is also arc limited, but now you got to keep everything in a tight formation, limiting where those ships can go. And Arcs aren't that nimble. Howl doesn't need arc on her target, and the ships around her just need to be in the range 1 bubble around her.

They could easily drop Sinker to 48-49, Jag to 45-46 and Squad Seven to 43 and it'd be just fine. And Drea should fall in points behind Kavil as well.

As far as the others, yeah, I could see Sabine lower than Hera, Hera has a near copy of Slave 1 as her pilot ability and it harder to catch. Sabine needs juke or debris gambit (which is a combo I still don't think should work, but that's another topic.) Attack Shuttle would be really cool with a gunner but alas, I doubt it.

Palob and Dace might be a legit argument, even if I think Palob is overrated since Crow title is too expensive to expand the arc coverage, and he's two low Initiative to catch people to steal the focus and at I3 is killed off before he has fun with his ability. But Dace makes me think they forgot to give the HWK a turret slot for Ion cannon, his ability in 2.0 is just sad. He has to have Ion carriers around him to work. Ion bombs coming back might help him out though. That and if his ability was 1^ and not 3^

22 hours ago, Schanez said:

T-65 is 41 points. T-70 is 45. Difference? If you aim your bullseye, you do not suffer penalties for closing S-Foils, you get access to Tech slot and the ship has a Boost action now, regardless of S-Foils. Oh, and they have access to a Hardpoint, not a Torpedo slot.

And one more shield...

On 12/18/2019 at 9:21 PM, S4ul0 said:

I'm ok with your cost of the two elite TIE/fo pilots (they are overcosted ) and the gunner, but I like the idea of choose between the two TIE/sf setups (and I think all TIE/sf pilots are fine).

FO doesn't need a lot of adjustments.

The Silencer is playable. Kylo is strong. The generic TIE/fo is very efficient (maybe the Omega need 1 point drop) and the Upsilon sees table.

The main issue is FO lacks ships that can take a good support or control role. And FFG gives another Ace... Good.

I know this is a wishlist but there are a lot of changes to a tiny faction.

A Int 4 Heroic Black Sqd Ace T70 is 1 point cheaper than a naked Int 1 Silencer Engineer... Sure an Engineer can reposition twice, but an BSA only has to reposition once and can int kill a Silencer. Half points, the BSA wins 26-25. The Engineer is over costed.

1 hour ago, Archangelspiv said:

A Int 4 Heroic Black Sqd Ace T70 is 1 point cheaper than a naked Int 1 Silencer Engineer... Sure an Engineer can reposition twice, but an BSA only has to reposition once and can int kill a Silencer. Half points, the BSA wins 26-25. The Engineer is over costed.

Double reposition and an additional agility dice. But yeah it should probably drop 1-3 points.

12 hours ago, KingmanHighborn said:

Drea at 4 is often nuked off the table or at least hit very hard by higher initiative ship lists.

🤨 Are you leading with her? Her arc extends all the way out to range 3, including the turrets (they just can't shoot something farther out than range 2), so there is plenty of space for her to hang out behind the rest of the list.

12 hours ago, KingmanHighborn said:

by the time you slap on the necessary R4, turret and VTG it's even more

Oh... That explains a bit. R4 and Vet TurG aren't needed for her to be effective.

Some of Scums generic ships need a buff for sure. a few have never see play ever. eg. scum hawk aka Spice Runner. would really love some of the name pilots or the title on the hawk to get a points reduction. Escape Craft is pretty much dead in my area and im not seeing it around much at all so a points buff there would be cool as scum needs its best coordinating ship back in the fold.

What would really be great is if scums illicits were costed more cheaply or some of its crew given a buff. not going to name specific stuff here but im not seeing much in the way of crew on scum ships other than 0-0-0, Maul, Perceptive Copilot, or Qi'ra or Zuckus and these last two see average play at best.

feels like we are in the era of swarms and jedi with force users in empire seeing solid play as well. thats not my forte at all. high initiative pilots are strong which is why generics are just not very attractive options.

13 hours ago, KingmanHighborn said:

Drea only works on generics, and is 9 points MORE than Howl (by the time you slap on the necessary R4, turret and VTG it's even more).

Losing efficiency there. You don’t need R4 and VTG. Some people even run her without a turret. Dorsal is worth extending that arc though.

Up - I5 Jedis, Heroic, droid struts, Captain Sear, TA-175.

Down - long list of stuff you never see on table.

sure feels like FFG is torn between releasing the older ships, creating new ships/content and calculating/releasing suitable points adjustments.

finger in a lot of pies there for sure.

enterprising students may note that aethersprites are able to hit 3 or even 4 without associated downsides or being sensitive to cost, which is why you see "force/jedi/fine tuned controls are fundamentally broken" threads but not "soontir/vader are fundamentally broken" threads - the 3 hull / lack of boost as downsides mean they only violate the standard as a function of current points cost rather than as a function of underlying design

9 hours ago, Greedo_Sharpshooter said:

sure feels like FFG is torn between releasing the older ships, creating new ships/content and calculating/releasing suitable points adjustments.

finger in a lot of pies there for sure.

Oh I agree there. I'm super surprised we got 2.0 releases of anything not already in the conversion kits.

10 hours ago, Quack Shot said:

Losing efficiency there. You don’t need R4 and VTG. Some people even run her without a turret. Dorsal is worth extending that arc though.

Is it though? Double tap is so vital when the ship primary is a 2 die gun. It also feels really awkward to field Ys, Xs, etc. with no astromech, and R4 is super useful on the otherwise limited Y-wing (if it gets stressed). And while I'd prefer an ion turret, dorsal is so important as you got to maximize your field of fire. I can not imagine Drea being a legit threat with no turret, it's also still weird that arcs extend out to 3 even when the turret is limited to range 2. Or turrets count as arcs at all. But getting off topic.

I still just see no reason in Drea being more expensive than Kavil, and I do wish turrets and vtg would go back to their at launch costs. Never happen but it's my wish.

30 minutes ago, KingmanHighborn said:

I still just see no reason in Drea being more expensive than Kavil, and I do wish turrets and vtg would go back to their at launch costs. Never happen but it's my wish.

Lok Revenant (Scurrg H-6 Bomber) Veteran Turret Gunner Ion Cannon Turret
Lok Revenant (Scurrg H-6 Bomber) Veteran Turret Gunner Ion Cannon Turret
Lok Revenant (Scurrg H-6 Bomber) Veteran Turret Gunner Dorsal Turret
Drea Renthal (BTL-A4 Y-wing)

Here is the list that won a System Open, and is a good representation of the archetype that got Drea the price hike. Notice something about Drea and her upgrades here?

I've also seen that list with her having a dorsal. And I saw no reason to nerf that list just because it won a system open. Shame couldn't fit vtg on all of them though.

18 minutes ago, KingmanHighborn said:

I've also seen that list with her having a dorsal. And I saw no reason to nerf that list just because it won a system open. Shame couldn't fit vtg on all of them though.

Dorsal yes, sometimes. Vtg and R4 never. Not once.

It was definitely an oppressive list, maybe it was a bit overnerfed but definitely not a "shame" it couldn't fit vtg on all

4 hours ago, KingmanHighborn said:

Oh I agree there. I'm super surprised we got 2.0 releases of anything not already in the conversion kits.

Is it though? Double tap is so vital when the ship primary is a 2 die gun. It also feels really awkward to field Ys, Xs, etc. with no astromech, and R4 is super useful on the otherwise limited Y-wing (if it gets stressed). And while I'd prefer an ion turret, dorsal is so important as you got to maximize your field of fire. I can not imagine Drea being a legit threat with no turret, it's also still weird that arcs extend out to 3 even when the turret is limited to range 2. Or turrets count as arcs at all. But getting off topic.

I still just see no reason in Drea being more expensive than Kavil, and I do wish turrets and vtg would go back to their at launch costs. Never happen but it's my wish.

You see Drea isn’t there to do the damage. She’s there so her friends can do the damage.

I get that, but I don't agree that it was oppressive or that she needed to be nerfed so hard. And points wise she with her ability should be less than Kavil.

2 hours ago, KingmanHighborn said:

I get that, but I don't agree that it was oppressive or that she needed to be nerfed so hard. And points wise she with her ability should be less than Kavil.

It was, frankly, a horrible easy mode glue eating list and was rightly nerfed. Drea could probably drop in price but caution is needed in case some similar monster is released. Her ability is far easier to use than Howlrunners and she can't be one shot like Howlie can.

Howl isn't that easy to one shot in most swarm lists cause Iden is usually stapled to her wing. But her ability works on every ship in your squad while Drea is limited to generics. And who cares if the list is easy to fly? Tie swarms and Ion Y-Wing wagon circles are easy too. It wasn't rightly nerfed. It was plowed over and buried by the Nerf bat. Not as hard as poor Dormouse but still.

42 minutes ago, KingmanHighborn said:

Howl isn't that easy to one shot in most swarm lists cause Iden is usually stapled to her wing. But her ability works on every ship in your squad while Drea is limited to generics. And who cares if the list is easy to fly? Tie swarms and Ion Y-Wing wagon circles are easy too. It wasn't rightly nerfed. It was plowed over and buried by the Nerf bat. Not as hard as poor Dormouse but still.

Iden is another 40 points on top of Howlrunner's 40 points. That's 80 points for Howl's ability and security against it being one-shotted. 80 points , on a couple of TIE/lns. That also means multiple different initiative values on a swarm that needs close formation to benefit from Howlrunner and doesn't have any obstacle mitigation like Mining Guild TIEs or Vultures with struts do. Asteroid collisions risk damage that TIE/lns can't afford and debris causes stress that their mediocre blues struggle to handle while also swarming; even gas clouds leave them with weak attacks (2 red dice with 1 reroll only is bad) and defence (unmodded green dice covering only 3 hull and zero shields is very unreliable). So it's not easy - the Howlrunner range 1 bubble is significantly harder to manage than anywhere-in-arc of Drea.

For my wishlist!

I play Fo mainly, and they are good. but! They could use a 5-10 point drop to allow pilots to take more uppgrades,

For exampel

Special Forces Gunner 6-8 points

Tie Fo -5 points cross the board

Uppsilons stays

Silenzers get 2-3 drop, all exept kylo

Hoping that the Tie Baron costs around the same amount as the imperial conunterpart

What are your takes on Fo,?

1 hour ago, IgotTargetlocked said:

For my wishlist!

I play Fo mainly, and they are good. but! They could use a 5-10 point drop to allow pilots to take more uppgrades,

For exampel

Special Forces Gunner 6-8 points

Tie Fo -5 points cross the board

Uppsilons stays

Silenzers get 2-3 drop, all exept kylo

Hoping that the Tie Baron costs around the same amount as the imperial conunterpart

What are your takes on Fo,?

So you want the /fo to be cheaper than the Empire Tie? Lol no...

/SF's are close to perfect but if FFG want the SF Gunner to be used more then the base chassis needs to go up to keep 5x I2's with gunners off the board.

Silencers, agree with you.

/ba will be roughly 3-5 points above the imp v1