1- R2 droid to cost at least as 2 shields (Like adding 2 shield upgrade)

2-Jedi up at least 4 points each unique pilot

3-vultures up 2 points

4-nantex named pilots to rise 4 points each

5-ensnare up 2 points

22 hours ago, Joakko said:

1- R2 droid to cost at least as 2 shields (Like adding 2 shield upgrade)

That's overdoing it to the point that it's pretty much a soft ban on the card. 2 regen charges is strictly worse than shields+2 - it takes time (focus fire can kill before full recovery) and disables weapons each time. Even jedi, who synergise best with it, wouldn't pay 16(!) points for R2.

On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 1:38 PM, gamblertuba said:

The idea I like the best on ensnare is a change to the RRG that says you must spend the tractor token in order to reposition a ship. This makes self-tractoring painless but maybe that is OK? I dunno

I think this is the way to go, maybe with the caveat that you only need to spend the amount of tokens required to tractor the ship. That way tractor cannons can still tractor and move small bases, but Ensnare loses some of its negative play characteristics.

That being said I want to see MG-100s with trajectory simulator drop by 10 points total. I also want star fortresses to lose the second gunner slot and to gain two configurations: gunship and bomber. Gunship would give you the second gunner slot in exchange for a bomb slot, and Bomber gives you a third bomb slot or the ability perform turret attacks when you have a disarm token.

Jedi....

Order 66?

54 minutes ago, Dasharr said:

2 regen charges is strictly worse than shields+2

technically not exactly true, because you aren't allowed to take shields + 2, but you are allowed to take 2 regen charges

55 minutes ago, Dasharr said:

Even jedi, who synergise best with it, wouldn't pay 16(!) points for R2.

2 hours ago, svelok said:

technically not exactly true, because you aren't allowed to take shields + 2, but you are allowed to take 2 regen charges

The point is that if you could take double shield upgrade on a jedi, R2 would be strictly worse. It's not that unusual for jedi to get killed with unspent R2 charges in my experience. And nobody takes shield upgrade on jedi now* even though the mod slot is often free. For that matter, non-R2 jedi are fully viable, so I think the problem is undercosted jedi plus a strong synergy. I just don't see the point of overcorrecting. For my part, after upping jedi a bit, I'd nudge R2 up to R2-D2's current cost and leave R2-D2 as is. I don't think any Rebel droid carrier is a problem** with a third regen charge and it would be nice to see the little guy played.

* I'm using "nobody" in the hyperbolic sense; I'm sure somebody uses shield upgrade on jedi but it's got no meta presence as far as I know.

** If Corran gets a deep price cut that might be a danger with cheap 3-charge regen.

1 minute ago, Dasharr said:

so I think the problem is undercosted jedi plus a strong synergy

I agree

1 minute ago, Dasharr said:

I just don't see the point of overcorrecting

Regen feels bad. It always will, at least on ships as mobile as aethersprites. Please do over-correct.

2 minutes ago, Dasharr said:

I don't think any Rebel droid carrier is a problem**

I agree

Regen and shield upgrade are NOT the same in a tournament setting with timed games. Even a theoretical Jedi with double shield upgrade would guarantee half points if you could get in four hits. A Jedi with an R2 droid needs to be hit five times in order to guarantee half points. That's not just "feels bad" that is a game winning difference.

One more thing: I really want to see Expert Handling get cut in half. 1/2/3 points for S/M/L Bases. Just feels too expensive.

Punishing one title down 2 points.

Expert handling down 1 point for medium and large base ships.

M-12 gets an additional missile slot.

All force users up a couple points (especially Athersprites)

Landing struts reduced to 0, and the ships they go on up 2 points.

Passive sensors goes up.

Ensnare goes up, especially for I4 and below.

Skull squadron pilots, Kadd, and all Scyks down 2.

Quadjumpers down 1.

Moldy Crow down 2.

Repulic ARCs up 2.

Finn/Corva up.

Drea down 1.

Not 4LOM G1-A's down 1.

Not Boba firesprays, not Ketsu Shadowcaster, and YV-666 down 2.

Named Republic V things down 2-3.

Black sun Soldiers and generic mining guild ties down 1.

That would be a good start.

On 12/20/2019 at 10:42 AM, Dasharr said:

The point is that if you could take double shield upgrade on a jedi, R2 would be strictly worse

Not true. A Jedi starting at 8 hp needs to be hit 4 times to concede half points. A double Regen Jedi needs to be hit 5 times. Three of my worlds games swung on a single shield on a Jedi. It happens plenty.

17 hours ago, Ablazoned said:

Not true. A Jedi starting at 8 hp needs to be hit 4 times to concede half points. A double Regen Jedi needs to be hit 5 times. Three of my worlds games swung on a single shield on a Jedi. It happens plenty.

Fair point about the half-point threshold, but I still think that shield value +2 would be better than 2-charge regen because the regen has to be actively used twice. Jedi being destroyed with unspent r2 charges also happens plenty, and that's giving away full points plus the loss of that ship from play for the rest of the game.

Are force users really so powerful? They are fragile, require expert flying AND luck with dice. Losing one ship usually means losing the game due to high cost.

21 minutes ago, rhetor said:

Are force users really so powerful? They are fragile, require expert flying AND luck with dice. Losing one ship usually means losing the game due to high cost.

Are they fragile? They have 6* health, behind 2 agility with focus changes that other ships could even dream of.

*2 more because R2 is attached

9 minutes ago, Quack Shot said:

Are they fragile? They have 6* health, behind 2 agility with focus changes that other ships could even dream of.

*2 more because R2 is attached

If anything they're more forgiving than conventional aces. The Force means they have access to mods even if blocked, and Fine-Tuned Controls means that they can double-reposition without stress (unlike Autothrusters which makes the ship more limited the next turn). Few other aces have an astromech option; even if R2 gets a price hike in a few weeks, there are other good options for Jedi (R3 would make for good action economy, reducing the risk of choosing to lock the wrong target).

1 hour ago, Quack Shot said:

Are they fragile? They have 6* health, behind 2 agility with focus changes that other ships could even dream of.

*2 more because R2 is attached

They are fragile. And their price expresses extra focus changes. I6 Wedge +R2 has 6 health and deadly ability. Price - 59 points. I6 Anakin with 7B and R2 costs 88 points. Or 29 more. Is he really too cheap?

16 minutes ago, rhetor said:

They are fragile. And their price expresses extra focus changes. I6 Wedge +R2 has 6 health and deadly ability. Price - 59 points. I6 Anakin with 7B and R2 costs 88 points. Or 29 more. Is he really too cheap?

Wedge has one action, can’t double reposition, and doesn’t have 3 force.

Just now, Quack Shot said:

Wedge has one action, can’t double reposition, and doesn’t have 3 force.

That is why he costs almost 30 points less.

15 minutes ago, rhetor said:

They are fragile. And their price expresses extra focus changes. I6 Wedge +R2 has 6 health and deadly ability. Price - 59 points. I6 Anakin with 7B and R2 costs 88 points. Or 29 more. Is he really too cheap?

Anakin is a far better arc-dodger with the option to boost and barrel roll in the same round (in either order), at the cost of a resource that recovers 1 each round unconditionally and that Wedge doesn't even have. Wedge can only do one of those a round, and the boost comes at the cost of -1 attack die.

Ani gets better use of his R2 droid because of the Weapons Disabled cost. Unlike Wedge, Ani wants to disengage just to recover Force sometimes, and is squirelly enough to be good at making a clean disengage, creating a window in which he can pop R2 while the Weapons Disabled makes no difference. Wedge is more a brawler than an ace so disengages less.

1 minute ago, Dasharr said:

Anakin is a far better arc-dodger with the option to boost and barrel roll in the same round (in either order), at the cost of a resource that recovers 1 each round unconditionally and that Wedge doesn't even have. Wedge can only do one of those a round, and the boost comes at the cost of -1 attack die.

Ani gets better use of his R2 droid because of the Weapons Disabled cost. Unlike Wedge, Ani wants to disengage just to recover Force sometimes, and is squirelly enough to be good at making a clean disengage, creating a window in which he can pop R2 while the Weapons Disabled makes no difference. Wedge is more a brawler than an ace so disengages less.

Still, Anakin is way more expensive. I5 Obi-Wan in the same configuration costs 77 points. They are very expensive ships already.

2 minutes ago, rhetor said:

Still, Anakin is way more expensive. I5 Obi-Wan in the same configuration costs 77 points. They are very expensive ships already.

True. But I think that Jedi are, if anything, generally still undercosted with a statline that (with 7B) is as good at brawling as a mid-range brawling chassis like the T-65 AND can arc-dodge as good as any chassis in the game AND all pilots have the Force.

In fairness I don't think they're all that badly undercosted, maybe by 2 on Obi-Wan through 0 for Jedi Knights or Barriss. Some of their strength comes from the R2 synergy; cost that a little higher (I already advocated upping R2 to the cost of R2-D2) and most current Jedi squads get squeezed by the combined cost increases to dropping upgrades or to little or no bid.

2 minutes ago, Dasharr said:

True. But I think that Jedi are, if anything, generally still undercosted with a statline that (with 7B) is as good at brawling as a mid-range brawling chassis like the T-65 AND can arc-dodge as good as any chassis in the game AND all pilots have the Force.

In fairness I don't think they're all that badly undercosted, maybe by 2 on Obi-Wan through 0 for Jedi Knights or Barriss. Some of their strength comes from the R2 synergy; cost that a little higher (I already advocated upping R2 to the cost of R2-D2) and most current Jedi squads get squeezed by the combined cost increases to dropping upgrades or to little or no bid.

but why? Have Jedi squads really dominated the game? They still rely on skill, not on brute force.

13 minutes ago, rhetor said:

but why? Have Jedi squads really dominated the game? They still rely on skill, not on brute force.

I've certainly seen lots of them locally; for about 3-4 months, if you went to a tournament around here, you could expect to see 50% of lists having at least one Jedi Starfighter. That could just be a local thing though. They weren't over-represented at Worlds, but that fits with my hypothesis that they may not be much stronger than other aces but are more forgiving. Basically, most aces are high-skill-floor high-skill-ceiling, while Jedi have a lower floor. EDIT: lower than other aces that is, not generally low like 5x Optics sf.

22 minutes ago, rhetor said:

but why? Have Jedi squads really dominated the game? They still rely on skill, not on brute force.

* Obi, Ric, Plo won the Dutch Grands

* Anakin, Obi, Plo won the Swedish Grands

* Obi, Ric, Plo won the Australian Grands

* Anakin, Obi, Ric won the NA continentals

* Anakin, Obi, Torrent took 2nd in the European Continentals

* Anakin, Obi, Ric took 2nd in the US Grands

2 minutes ago, svelok said:

* Obi, Ric, Plo won the Dutch Grands

* Anakin, Obi, Plo won the Swedish Grands

* Obi, Ric, Plo won the Australian Grands

* Anakin, Obi, Ric won the NA continentals

* Anakin, Obi, Torrent took 2nd in the European Continentals

* Anakin, Obi, Ric took 2nd in the US Grands

Have these lists been flown by total rookies, who just beat all that veteran XWing players could throw at them?