10 minutes ago, jagsba said:

source:

Pax was a Chertek-ensnare, with sear and a bunch of vultures right?
If that's the one, then really, the problem I think is more with sear and vultures. If you look at every event, the thing that comes back is that sear + vultures is extremely efficient. Adding some toys to that is bound to be good, but (not having seen the game, so can't comment with accuracy) i'm sure that Chertek, and especially ensnare, is not what made that player win.

Pax was won by Heaver with just Chertek and 7 vultures. No Sear.

Increasing vultures by 1pt I think balances both types of lists by removing their toys like Discord missiles on vultures or Soulless One on Bellyrubs.

Personal wishlist?

Generic G-1As down 2

Advanced Sensors down 2

Non-Gold Torrents down 1

N-1s other than Ric & Ani down 2

Tactical Officer down 2

Generic Scum Ys down 1

Kimogilas down 2

Generic Resistance Falcons down 3

Starfortresses down 4

I would like to non-masochistically bring YT-2400 and E-wings to the table

Yikes! Source gets winning list wrong and uses incorrect assumption to construct narrative.

1. Regen increased in points or removed from certain platforms (as an example - any force user cannot take regen unless it specific to ship R2D2)

2. All Force Users points increased. (Even my beloved Darth Vader)

3. Ensnare up

4. N-1s not named Anakin or Ric down.

5. New ships rotated in, others out

6. Resistance Falcon and or Resistance crew reworked points

- Rebels to not go up in price again.

- Some generics to be more viable (B-Wings, Interceptors, TIE F/Os, for example).

- E-Wings to come down 3 points

- Large base ships to come down

- 3 force ships to go up

- TIE Agressor to drop again

I'd like to see:

• All three Defender aces at 80 points, the Onyx at 72 and the Delta at 66.
• TIE Aggressor down one point, and give it the sensor slot.
• All Reapers down at least one point.
• Cartel Spacer and Sunny Bounder down two points, all other M3-A pilots down three points.

Just now, Okapi said:

All three Defender aces at 80 points, the Onyx at 72 and the Delta at 66.

Deltas at 66 would be a dream

Yeah I hadn't the right list in mind. Saw what it was now and that it was Paul who won the Pax.

Still, despite my mistake, a quick read on Meta Wing will show that the 2 number one pilot right now are Sear, and the I1 vultures, both ship that usually make up a single list. Meanwhile, Chertek is placed 9th, and is a much less list defining pilot unlike Sear, and unique. And Sun Fac is placed at an hilarious 51th place, under even the Petranaki Ace. Even if we say that the top 10 most used pilot in the game are probably too good and need to be toned down a bit, only chertek would need to be nerf a bit.

Still, I know it's still an opinion and so you can disagree with it, but from what i've seen and the data of metawing, ensnare nantex seems to be right where it is right now, and so probably doesn't need a nerf, especially not one to ''soft-ban'' it. There's probably other stuff that could take a little swing for the nerf bat before that.

I want to see:

Blue Squadron Pilot - 45 points

Blade Squadron Ace - 47 points

Braylen Stramm - 57 points

Ten Numb - 56 points

Gina Moonsong - 60 points

Stabilized S-Foils - 0 points

1 hour ago, Cgriffith said:

Deltas at 66 would be a dream

Unnecessary IMO. They're pretty much viable already at 69, 67 is probably the sweet spot even not considering break points. I think the more important change is Onyx down to 72ish and the named ones (other than Rexler) around 78. They're good, but most of the value comes from the chassis, not the initiative or abilities, as cool as they may be.

Defenders are all over costed. Hugely so for the named ones. Their low intitative adds very little value in this meta and rexler is surprisingly kind of a 3 dice gun With focus

generic at 67 would be nice.

24 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Defenders are all over costed. Hugely so for the named ones. Their low intitative adds very little value in this meta and rexler is surprisingly kind of a 3 dice gun With focus

generic at 67 would be nice.

The Delta is almost at the right price. I think 67 would be about perfect. The problem is that it's like the VCX – most of the value comes from the chassis, not the pilot. With that in mind, the price scaling is excessive. Especially so since these things almost prefer lower initiative. Anything that has focus most of the time is better at lower initiative; you will never expose yourself by using it on attack, and you will always have it for your defense. At their high health and defense they're not getting initiative-killed very often anyway. The Onyx, even at I4, is not worth more than 5 points over the Delta. And the named pilots' abilities generally aren't worth more than 6 points over that, maybe 8 for Rex but that's a hard max.

(scum) Aggressors down 3.

Y-wing down 1, Drea down 4.

Firesprays that are not Boba Fett down 2(Emon down 4).

Jumpmaster down 4, and the title down 2.

Lancers down 2.

Scyks down 2.

Mining TIE down 1, except Seevor(+/-0), Ahhav down 3, and Proach down 3.

Quadjumper down 2, especially in light of the rules change nerf, maybe even down 3.

Scurrg down 1.

Xizor and Dalan Oberos (starviper) down 2.

Z95 down 2.

Generic missiles down 1.

Advanced sensors down 2.

pls go back to 198

1 hour ago, svelok said:

pls go back to 198

Agree. All Force Users need points increases. Easily Republic based, even my favorite X1 Vader needs a 3 point increase.

8 hours ago, Cerebrawl said:

(scum) Aggressors down 3.

Y-wing down 1, Drea down 4.

Firesprays that are not Boba Fett down 2(Emon down 4).

Jumpmaster down 4, and the title down 2.

Lancers down 2.

Scyks down 2.

Mining TIE down 1, except Seevor(+/-0), Ahhav down 3, and Proach down 3.

Quadjumper down 2, especially in light of the rules change nerf, maybe even down 3.

Scurrg down 1.

Xizor and Dalan Oberos (starviper) down 2.

Z95 down 2.

Generic missiles down 1.

Advanced sensors down 2.

Too much too fast; do you have any idea what kinds of crazy lists that would allow?

Aggressors aren’t that bad. Price them like the slightly-better-torrents they are (26 base). Jumps need an errata (either white rotate or title works in 360, maybe both).

Z-95s are better than vultures and should cost at least 2 points more.

Drea down less than 4; he’s insanely good and much harder to kill than Howl.

Agree on Vipers, Scyks, Missiles, and maybe AS. Also PS up 1.

My main ones for First Order from the other thread on points:

Tie/fo

Malarus I5 - 35pts (-4)

Midnight I6 - 39pts (-4)

Tie/sf

Zeta I2 - 33pts (+1)*

Omega I3 - 35pts (+1)*

Quickdraw I6 - 47pts (+2)*

Tie/vn

SJ Engineer I1 - 48pts (-3)

Avenger I3 - 54pts (-3)

FO Test Pilot I4 - 55pts (-3)

Recoil I4 - 55pts (-3)

Blackout I5 - 59pts (-3)

Upsilon

PO Thanisson I1 - 60pts (-2)

SKB Pilot I2 - 56pts (-2)

Major Stridan I4 - 61pts (-3)

Capt. Cardinal I4 - 61pts (-4)

Upgrades

*SF Gunner - 8pts (-2)

Gen. Hux - 4pts (-2)

PO Thanisson - 2pts (-2)

Kylo Ren - 9pts (-2)

Snoke - 11pts (-2)

2 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Too much too fast; do you have any idea what kinds of crazy lists that would allow?

Aggressors aren’t that bad. Price them like the slightly-better-torrents they are (26 base). Jumps need an errata (either white rotate or title works in 360, maybe both).

Z-95s are better than vultures and should cost at least 2 points more.

Drea down less than 4; he’s insanely good and much harder to kill than Howl.

Agree on Vipers, Scyks, Missiles, and maybe AS. Also PS up 1.

It's a wish list, I'm not expecting to get everything. Btw I also think empire TIE fighter, and rebel Z95 should go down a point. Btw my proposed Z95 cost is 22, scum is currently paying 24. Vultures should be 20 points if struts stay at 1.

Aggressors need some room for upgrades, triple brobot is possible to fly, but it's not making any waves, it could do with a few points off to give them room for a talent/cannon(ABC with titles is 200 points on the dot).

Oh right you were thinking of Empire TIE/Ag. I was talking about Aggressor Assault Fighter.

2 hours ago, Deffly said:

My main ones for First Order from the other thread on points:

Tie/fo

Malarus I5 - 35pts (-4)

Midnight I6 - 39pts (-4)

Tie/sf

Zeta I2 - 33pts (+1)*

Omega I3 - 35pts (+1)*

Quickdraw I6 - 47pts (+2)*

Tie/vn

SJ Engineer I1 - 48pts (-3)

Avenger I3 - 54pts (-3)

FO Test Pilot I4 - 55pts (-3)

Recoil I4 - 55pts (-3)

Blackout I5 - 59pts (-3)

Upsilon

PO Thanisson I1 - 60pts (-2)

SKB Pilot I2 - 56pts (-2)

Major Stridan I4 - 61pts (-3)

Capt. Cardinal I4 - 61pts (-4)

Upgrades

*SF Gunner - 8pts (-2)

Gen. Hux - 4pts (-2)

PO Thanisson - 2pts (-2)

Kylo Ren - 9pts (-2)

Snoke - 11pts (-2)

I'm ok with your cost of the two elite TIE/fo pilots (they are overcosted ) and the gunner, but I like the idea of choose between the two TIE/sf setups (and I think all TIE/sf pilots are fine).

FO doesn't need a lot of adjustments.

The Silencer is playable. Kylo is strong. The generic TIE/fo is very efficient (maybe the Omega need 1 point drop) and the Upsilon sees table.

The main issue is FO lacks ships that can take a good support or control role. And FFG gives another Ace... Good.

I know this is a wishlist but there are a lot of changes to a tiny faction.

28 minutes ago, S4ul0 said:

I'm ok with your cost of the two elite TIE/fo pilots (they are overcosted ) and the gunner, but I like the idea of choose between the two TIE/sf setups (and I think all TIE/sf pilots are fine).

FO doesn't need a lot of adjustments.

The Silencer is playable. Kylo is strong. The generic TIE/fo is very efficient (maybe the Omega need 1 point drop) and the Upsilon sees table.

The main issue is FO lacks ships that can take a good support or control role. And FFG gives another Ace... Good.

I know this is a wishlist but there are a lot of changes to a tiny faction.

The drop in the SFG gunner needs to be offset in the chassis otherwise you'd be getting 5x I2's with gunners (40pts). Upping both generics by one while dropping the gunner encourages the use of the upgrade (stated by the designers they were surprised it wasn't being used much) while being @ 41/43 pts. It also reduces the 5x SF with AO/crack Swarm to having to choose what upgrades to pick.

The current 4 SF's are near perfect but these small changes encourage variety.

The Silencer is playable but you only see Kylo in any sort of consistent competitive list; ditto with the upsilon (Tavson or none, unless you are doing dual ups then it's Tavson and an SK generic). You get the occasional once off tournament and see Avenger or FOTP pilots make it deep due to fantastic players flying, but that is an exception, not a norm.

You truly can't come out and say both chassis are fine if they only have 1 competitive pilot? Are the Interceptor or TIE x1 in no need of any changes because they are well represented by Soontir and Vader?

No Scum ship should pay for the illicit upgrade slot (e.g. Z-95) or the llicits should drop by 2 points.

5 minutes ago, Deffly said:

The drop in the SFG gunner needs to be offset in the chassis otherwise you'd be getting 5x I2's with gunners (40pts).

Good point. In that case gunner at 9 points. I don't think the TIE/sf squads are too strong that they need a light nerf. The faction has a lot of competitive options although the lack of ships.

14 minutes ago, Deffly said:

The Silencer is playable but you only see Kylo in any sort of consistent competitive list; ditto with the upsilon (Tavson or none, unless you are doing dual ups then it's Tavson and an SK generic).

But they are fine. Not all ships will be played equal. There are more factors that explain why a pilot sees more table (people preferences, themes, etc.). If you drop the cost of a good ship the result is not balance.

22 minutes ago, Deffly said:

You truly can't come out and say both chassis are fine if they only have 1 competitive pilot? Are the Interceptor or TIE x1 in no need of any changes because they are well represented by Soontir and Vader?

Is my opinion and yes, I think all the Silencer pilots are competitive. Maybe you can drop 1 or 2 points on Test Pilot and Blackout but no more.

The TIE Interceptor is a different question. The Alpha is good but you have to pay a lot of taxes for the Initiative and talents and only Soontir is actually competitive. The Saber and Turr need a heavy discount, not the other two.

I'd love to see Primed Thrusters and Inertial Dampeners get a bit cheaper on low-initiative ships.

ID is really cool on Dalan Oberos Kimogila, but far too expensive right now. I know Handbreak Han was a menace, but that was mostly because it also came with unlimited R2-D2 regen and Kanan making it a white stop. I mean, it never really saw much play at 1 point on non-Han stuff, but maybe someone has fun with it on a non-broken ship.

Primed Thrusters would also be a fun upgrade at low init. Cheap T-70s with BB Astromech and Primed would be sweet. Not strong, but sweet. Same with Primed Thrusters Init 1 Silencers (I mostly agree with @S4ul0 that Silencers don't need much... It'd be cool to have 4 SJ Engineers, so maybe I'd take 1 point off of all non-Kylos, but 3 seems too much to me). I think Init 4 is where Primed Thrusters and Pattern Analyzer ought to cost the same 5 points, keeping the Init 5 and 6 high costs, but having a far cheaper PT for Init 1-2-3 would just be fun.

I REALLY REALLY want bombs a bit better. We don’t have to worry about 1.0 flashbacks. No endless bombs. They’re in the system phase now.

Besides the occasional Prox or Proton in 2 ship ace lists, they’re not that common. AND it’s the natural predator to these swarms.

My wish list:

The carries come down: Star fortress, punishers (not redline, sorry love), scurrg, kwing is okay but add sensor slot.

Lower a couple of the bombs.

Back off trajectory sim a bit.

The idea I like the best on ensnare is a change to the RRG that says you must spend the tractor token in order to reposition a ship. This makes self-tractoring painless but maybe that is OK? I dunno.

Ensnare is a problem though. Just because a lot of people lose with it doesn't mean it isn't a problem.

My priorities:

1. Ensnare points up and/or change to tractor mechanics.
2. Regen up.
3. Force users up.
4. Vultures up.