4 minutes ago, Desslok said:

Okay, fine - leave that one plot point aside. What was the point of Poe's girlfriend? Shows up, does nothing. What was the point of Finns new girlfriend. Shows up, does nothing. What was the point of unicycle droid? Gets found, does nothing. What was the point of Chewies "death"? Didn't move the plot along at all. What was the point of Poe's girlfriend's "death"? Does nothing to move the plot along. "Hello, I'm a spy and a traitor to my people! for Reasons". This story is nothing but a long list of fetch quests. It's like a really terrible Final Fantasy video game, Go here, get this thing, talk to this guy, go there, find that, talk to that guy, fight the end boss.

Narratively, it doesn't engage me. Emotionally, it leaves me cold. It's the cinematic equilivant of cotton candy - it tastes great for a few seconds but it melts away almost instantly in your mouth and you forget all about it right after.

You have a point on a few of these but I'll answer one where I can.

Chewies "Death" - This was a test of Kylo's to push Rey towards the dark side. At this point in the movie, he still embraced his dark side and felt he could become the new Emperor and wanted Rey by his side as "a dark queen". Having them find he wasn't dead leads into the rescue where they actually sneak onto the Destroyer and find the knife (and give Rey insight into Kylo's psyche after finding the Vader helmet.

Poe/Finn girlfriends - I think this was nothing more than JJ trying to break up rumors of the two's bromance. A lot of fans have been calling for this and this was JJ working in that struggle keeping them part and showing they had other interests. Finn obviously had feelings for Rey but recognizes that's not meant to be.
Not really a good reason to add in the extra stuff, the movie would have worked out the same if the droid slicer and the girl were just old associates.

"Hello I'm a spy" - I see this as the continuation of the conflict/competition between Hux and Kylo. Hux has been jealous of Kylo since Ep.7 and now finds himself forced to server the new "Supreme One" A lot of people would turn spy or attempt to sabotage their rivals especially when the Empire/First Order pushes so much for rank and order

I'm wondering if Desslok even watched the same movie as some of us did...

On Poe's girlfriend (the chick with the helmet), she helped provide more backtory on Poe, and gave them the plot trinket that let them get aboard the Star Destroyer to recover Chewie as well as the dagger/plot trinket from earlier. So that's the point of having her, as well as injecting a bit of humor with Poe not getting the girl. And the planet she was on getting blown up not only raises the stakes for the heroes (since they now know each Final Order ship has a planetkiller weapon) but helps make the fight even more personal for Poe. It's a narrative device known as "raising the stakes."

The girl that Finn met on Endor (and that Lando kinda creepily hit on at the end), she was there to show that Finn wasn't alone in being a FO stormtrooper to leave after being tasked to commit what amounted to a war crime (murdering helpless prisoners)

Chewie's presumed death was their for in-the-moment drama and to illustrate just how dark Rey's powers can go (which ties into her being Palp's granddaughter)

Hux being the spy/traitor was probably done more for comedy, especially as he wasn't taken all that seriously as a villain after TLJ, having apparently been demoted and answering to that older admiral in the time gap between the two movies.

Truthfully, the only two characters in the entire film that had true "plot relevance" were Rey and Kylo Ren, and them only due to their respective lineages, possibly Palps as a third though he could have been replaced with a random evil space wizard that was the true mastermind behind everything, up to and including Palps' machinations throughout the previous trilogies. Everyone else in the story could have easily been replaced with a new character and it not made a lick of difference to the overall plot. Lando especially is probably the king of irrelevant to the film's plot, as everything he did could have just as easily been done by a brand new character. But, LFL wanted to throw in some fanservice, and there'd been a lot of questions about why Billy Dee Williams hadn't come back to reprise the role that made him famous, so back comes Lando. Poe and Finn are fun characters, but in terms of relevance, they really don't have much other than "fighter pilot who leads the final charge" and "defector from the bad guys determined to defeat the bad guys," and could have been shuffled out without a single change to the overall plot.

Heck, Shadows of the Empire showed that even Han Solo wasn't essential to the plot of the original trilogy, by replacing him with Dash Rendar for that story, who was from the same character mold as Han, only with better toys.

3 minutes ago, Desslok said:

And none of that worked for me. Nothing in this movie connected to me on an emotional or intellectual level. It fails as simple basic storytelling. It felt safe, it felt corporate. I don't want to feel bummed out when I see a star wars movie. I should be wanting to grab the nearest carboard tube and start leaping around like Star Wars Kid.

Maybe things just change as you get older. I for one saw a couple kids leaving the theater last night with lightsabers and dueling all the way to the car.

2 minutes ago, Varlie said:

"Hello I'm a spy" - I see this as the continuation of the conflict/competition between Hux and Kylo. Hux has been jealous of Kylo since Ep.7 and now finds himself forced to server the new "Supreme One" A lot of people would turn spy or attempt to sabotage their rivals especially when the Empire/First Order pushes so much for rank and order

Good point on this. Hux even says that he's doing it not to help the Resistance win, but to see to it that Kylo loses and (in his mind) suffers disgrace and humiliation just as Hux undoubtedly has since Kylo took over as Supreme Leader.

But that's a perfect example of not giving anything in this movie time to breath. There's a spy in their ranks! And it's Hux? *zap* And now he's dead. Quick, on to the next plot point. It wasn't developed, it had no weight - it just came and went almost instantly.

But it wasn't instant. They mentioned a spy in the FO was responsible for confirming Palpatine's return and (maybe) some other info early on in the film. The time between us discovering it was Hux and him being killed was very quick but that's because they already suspected a spie and his being shot was pretty flimsy compared to all the dead troopers

One of my favorite things was how we finally got a look at how... utterly creepy and cult-like the Sith religion is. We'd seen the Jedi in the prequels and how they're very monastic and such, but seeing the Sith cultists as creepy faceless hooded figures chanting and such was really cool.

25 minutes ago, Desslok said:

And none of that worked for me.

That is another point entirely.

StarkJunior reminded me of the one thing that I both liked and disliked about this being the end of the "Skywalker prophecy/destiny". Anakin and then Luke was supposed to bring balance to the Force. Both did great things but in the end with Palpatine claiming "I am ALL the Sith!" and Rey claiming "I am ALL the Jedi" I couldn't help think that it should be Ben there since he was the Skywalker heir.

It didn't make me dislike the movie and it can be argued that Luke and Leia were both huge influences in Rey life in the brief year she left Jakku, enough so she claimed their legacy, but at the moment I was like "why is it only Rey here"

Probably a side-effect of the IMAX theater we were in, but when Palpy did the Force storm disabling the ships - which was just so cool in that "only Star Wars can do this" way - the whole theater shook and it was awesome.

My fiancée grabbed my arm and we were both tensing back in our seats.

It's fine, when people don't like the movie, but there are so many guys out there, who WANT to hate the movie. It matches with their hate for the other two films and of course Disney.

32 minutes ago, Varlie said:

But it wasn't instant. They mentioned a spy in the FO was responsible for confirming Palpatine's return and (maybe) some other info early on in the film. The time between us discovering it was Hux and him being killed was very quick but that's because they already suspected a spie and his being shot was pretty flimsy compared to all the dead troopers

Okay, instantly is the wrong word. Insubstantial? Underbaked, underdeveloped.

4 minutes ago, Desslok said:

Underbaked, underdeveloped

Taking this movie only? Sure.
Looking at the whole trilogy? Not really.

I think it worked really well that it was Hux. He was a whiny, entitled brat who would do anything to just be petty or spiteful to Kylo - he was meant to be ridiculous and not taken all that seriously when you break away he was in command of a terrible, violent machine.

This whole thing felt sorta schizophrenic to me. Like there were two movies that were badly cut together that didn't really make sense until the ending, where it still didn't really make sense. All the scenes with Leia on the planet of jungle whatever or wherever just felt flat and sorta forced. None of the characters there or the events there seemed to matter in any way, they were just there and did nothing. That and Leia was just weird, she should have been allowed to die during TLJ rather than be forced into this one.

I liked parts of it, but overall I kind of just feel meh about the whole thing. There were interesting things there, like Finn possibly being force sensitive and stuff, but it just didn't lead anywhere.

I might have ruined the movie for myself though by watching a youtube leak of the script before seeing the movie. Apparently someone from the Swedish governmental censorship bureau leaked the script as it was rated for the cinemas, which pretty much gave it all away. So I knew what it was possibly going to be before watching it, turns out the leaks were all true and the movie followed it all the way.

Zorii Bliss was a disappointing character. Expected maybe a mini boss or rival from the Fringe to complicate matters for our heroes. Someone to be dangerous flexible unlike the First Order. It seems her main function was to put a wedge between his potential relationship to Finn that the actors and a lot of the fans felt was natural.

JJ Abrahams has a history of doing this, making sure to avoid any same sex relationships with his male heroes.

Any way, have some art I did of her.

5 hours ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Taking this movie only? Sure.
Looking at the whole trilogy? Not really.

Okay, I can buy that he hates Kylo so much that he’ll betray him out of spite - I mean real-world people have done much dumber things for much stupider reasons - but it wasn’t presented very effectively. Hux’s heel-turn serves only to let the heroes escape. But then they just contrive him getting immediately killed, so it feels like the contrivance that it is. He should either have died helping them escape, and spit in Kylo’s face as he was doing it; or he should have escaped with them and then bumbled around being arrogant for the rest of the movie. Although that would have been kind of stupid, too being that he was a guy who blew up a bunch of planets and killed billions.

Oh, the good news in making Rey Palpatine's granddaughter? If that nasty, shrived cackling peanut can get laid, there's hope for me yet!

So for those interested, here's the full list of Jedi voices (and their actors) who piped up to inspire Rey but didn't have scenes elsewhere in the movie, courtesy of IMDB:

Anakin Skywalker (Hayden Christensen)
Luminara Unduli (Olivia d'Abo)
Ahsoka Tano* (Ashley Eckstein)
Aayla Secura (Jennifer Hale)
Mace Windu (Samuel L. Jackson)
Young Obi-Wan (Ewan McGregor)
Old Obi-Wan (Sir Alec Guinness)
Yoda (Frank Oz)
Adi Gallia (Angelique Perrin)
Kannan Jarus (Freddie Prinze Jr)
Qui-Gon Jinn (Liam Neeson)

*so presuming that all the Jedi who spoke up have become one with the Force (i.e. died), that Ahsoka was amongst the voices doesn't bode well for the character's fate as of the Resistance Era.

25 minutes ago, Desslok said:

Oh, the good news in making Rey Palpatine's granddaughter? If that nasty, shrived cackling peanut can get laid, there's hope for me yet!

That's assuming he did it the old-fashioned natural way. I wouldn't put it past him to have used alternative methods to conceive a child, possibly as a means of extending his life once it became clear that Vader wasn't going to live up to his potential (and possibly before the idea of turning Luke came up), only for the child to be effectively abandoned once Palps was removed from the scene.

Which on that tangent, brings me to another, this regarding my personal dislike of the "Rey is a Palpatine" plot element. What may have worked better would have been that rather than Rey being a direct biological descendant of Palps, he was instead behind her creation, using various methods such as cloning and genetic manipulation (using gene data from various Jedi Council members in addition to Anakin and other powerful Force users) to create what should have been the "perfect" host body for his spirit. And while perhaps initially dismayed this "perfect vessel" was genetically female, he decided that power and extended life was far more important than worrying about something as "trivial" to him as gender. Rey's "parents" weren't her biological parents, but instead a pair of individuals (possibly ex-Rebels or Imperial defectors?) that rescued her from the lab where this powerful Force-sensitive baby was cultivated, and raised her as their own daughter.

On yet another tangent, this movie does put Palp's whole goading of Luke to strike him down with all his hatred in a very different light, though I doubt Vader knew what would have happened. If Vader hadn't blocked Luke's enraged swing, it's quite possible that Palp's spirit would have taken over Luke's body, making for what would probably be that 'verse's darkest timeline.

9 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

That's assuming he did it the old-fashioned natural way

Boooo! Spoil sport! My dreams have been dashed once again.

9 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

I wouldn't put it past him to have used alternative methods to conceive a child, possibly as a means of extending his life once it became clear that Vader wasn't going to live up to his potential (and possibly before the idea of turning Luke came up), only for the child to be effectively abandoned once Palps was removed from the scene.

Stupid jokes about my pathetic sex life aside, that did strike me as a bit out of character for Sheev. Bumping uglies comes with a certain level of trust and intimacy with the other person(s), and he doesn't strike me as the type of guy to do that. Plus you add in the fact you'd probably have your guard down during the act - also out of character for master of the universe - it seems more likely that he just [REDACTED] into a [REDACTED] instead.

My quick take is that it was good, better than Force Awakens, but fell short of the Last Jedi. There are parts of the movie that I really liked, and even loved, and others that I wish just didn't exist in a Star Wars movie. The good stuff, the special effects, I think we get spoiled these days by the big budget movies, but the scale and quality of effects in this movie are spectacular, the music, I loved how they mixed together the classic scores with the the newer ones, and it just makes the movie feel epic, which is saying something for Star Wars, and finally the action scenes, and there are a lot of the them, were really well done!

The bad, I'm not going to break all of it down since this is suppose to be a quick take, but I will say this is the most hyperactive Star Wars movie I have ever seen! Also all the stuff with Darth Sidious was trash. People want to talk about Luke's character getting assassinated in TLJ, you should see what this movie does with Sidious and by extension Anakin, Luke, and Rey. Seriously the only good to come of it, is at least she wasn't a clone, and heck depending on who she was a clone of it might have worked better for the story.

One side note, I've seen all the Star Wars movies in the theater's opening night since Phantom Menace (technically Return of the Jedi, but I was only three so not counting that one), and this was the most dead I have ever seen an audience for a Star Wars movie. Seriously, they didn't cheer, or boo, or make any noise at all. They didn't laugh at the jokes, nothing. The only things that got a reaction, where a lot of "awwwws" for the Porgs, and people cheered the Ben and Rey kiss. It was almost distracting how quiet everyone was. Really strange!

40 minutes ago, Desslok said:

Stupid jokes about my pathetic sex life aside, that did strike me as a bit out of character for Sheev. Bumping uglies comes with a certain level of trust and intimacy with the other person(s), and he doesn't strike me as the type of guy to do that. Plus you add in the fact you'd probably have your guard down during the act - also out of character for master of the universe - it seems more likely that he just [REDACTED] into a [REDACTED] instead.

Considering Palpatine's age, he may have had the relations that produced a child back when he was a senator of Naboo and wasn't necessarily needing to maintain his guard so much. I have little doubt he could have faked "trust and intimacy" to accomplish such a thing.

All I can say is gigantic plot holes and mary sueing. They should just proclaim Rey a God and be done with it...

Nothing in this move made sense. That star destroyers fleet...god, what idiot thought of that? 😕

Legacy of Anakin prophecy is destroyed, instead if Skywalker saga it's Palpatine saga... I will stick to EU.

Good that this is over, and I can only agree with medicore reviews so far. Well, I know it won't bomb but I hope it won't meet box office estimations.

10 minutes ago, Benny89 said:

That star destroyers fleet...god, what idiot thought of that? 😕

43 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

Considering Palpatine's age, he may have had the relations that produced a child back when he was a senator of Naboo and wasn't necessarily needing to maintain his guard so much. I have little doubt he could have faked "trust and intimacy" to accomplish such a thing.

He’s the was Emporer, he must of had at least some women trying to get in his pants. Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac. Not to mention he inspired cult like devotion.