1 minute ago, Bojanglez said:

“Sure, just ‘people’ but enough of them to beat a (presumably) highly trained military force in ships that was 10,000 more powerful than the First Order”

Well you are playing an RPG that explains how silhouette matters quite a bit.

I found the scene to be great and think it paid tribute to the Brits taking to the seas to rescue their soldiers of Dunkirk.

I have found that for hard core fans, like myself and most on here, there are two categories- those who loved TLJ and those who hated it. I fall into the hate category, most likely just because I am a Luke fan. Amongst us the divide for this movie seems to fall along those same lines. If you were a fan of TLJ you disliked this movie. The reasons are obvious, JJ Abrams pretty much washed over the TLJ. Star Wars fans been given a bad rep recently due to stupid things like this. We should try the middle ground. I know I have been trying, I actually watched TLJ again.

My children are casual fans, they are all college age adults. I have forced them to watch the original trilogy and they were very young during prequels. They loved all three of the new movies and these movies were made for them pretty much. JJ Abrams is a little bit of a fan boy, so us old geezers get some nods. The theaters around me have been sold out all opening weekend. A much different feeling to me than Solo opening weekend. Solo did get shafted on marketing.

On 12/20/2019 at 1:05 PM, Desslok said:

And none of that worked for me. Nothing in this movie connected to me on an emotional or intellectual level. It fails as simple basic storytelling. It felt safe, it felt corporate. I don't want to feel bummed out when I see a star wars movie. I should be wanting to grab the nearest carboard tube and start leaping around like Star Wars Kid.

I did not get that with this movie, and that makes me sad.

I don't know what series of Star Wars films you folks have been watching, but they have never been cinematic art. They are action driven popcorn munchers and have always been so. I love them for it. There has never been realistic physics in SW. It's pretty much whatever the plot requires. Sorry to single you out Desslok, there have been several similar posts.

This movie gets two thumbs up from me. The wife and I will go to see it several more times. It's definitely the best of the sequels. It's a top 4 in SW rankings for me.

My wife's opinion, she plays a wookie technician in my game:

Overall, I think I loved it, but I'm still processing and I need to see it again. Some of the dialogue was weak, in my opinion. It felt a bit canned, especially for characters like Poe, Rose, and Finn. I think Star Wars is still struggling to re-define itself moving forward. There is a battle between the new feel of TLJ, which seems to appeal to younger crowds, speaking generally, and then the old, traditional feel of things, which I think Rogue One captured well. For me this movie felt split between trying to cater to both. Characters like Poe, Rose, and sometimes Finn, seem very Rogue One/old feel to me. While characters like Rey and Kylo Ren are very new school/TLJ. I like the Rogue One feel best and I wish we saw more of characters like Poe and Rose and I wish the writing had been better for them. That said. I did enjoy the movie. I loved the character development and arc of the story between Rey and Ren/Ben. I loved the scenes with Luke and with Han. Overall it was action packed and it felt like a Star Wars movie. I will agree that visually it lacked somewhat compared to TLJ, but the visual aspects are really the only thing I like about TLJ, the rest was a huge let down. Star Wars has always been more about the story and the action, then the big sweeping visuals anyways. And there were some visual elements that were quite well done that I did enjoy, it wasn't all lacking, for example, the last scenes in the Sith throne room were done beautifully and pretty ******* epic. My favorite of the newer releases remains Rogue One. If they could stick with that feel I'd be a happy camper. That said, I think Star Wars fans tend to be over-analyzers and maybe we do ourselves a bit of disservice by being so critical of our movies, lol. Maybe we should just sit back with some popcorn and try to enjoy them a bit more before analyzing. LOL. Easier said then done.

28 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Well you are playing an RPG that explains how silhouette matters quite a bit.

I found the scene to be great and think it paid tribute to the Brits taking to the seas to rescue their soldiers of Dunkirk.

Again; each to their own. The rescue at Dunkirk is a far cry from Japanese Whalers taking on the US navy.

My opinion aside, I am genuinely glad others enjoyed it. Not all Star Wars will be for all people, that’s the new reality

49 minutes ago, TheWizurd said:

If you were a fan of TLJ you disliked this movie.

Nope

My issues with it:

1. JJ's tendency to TELL when he should SHOW. The First Order's origin in TFA? None. Palp's return? One sentence in the opening crawl.* How Force life transference works? One mumbled throwaway line. Same for Snoke's origin.

2. The movie tripped over itself trying to placate everyone who had any issue with TLJ. Invalidating Rey's non-heritage shot one of TLJ's best messages right in the head. Kylo would have had so much more agency as the supreme chancellor, and seeing Rey try to turn him when he has no one to answer to or turn against, would have been so much more compelling. JJ brought back the Knights of Ren to do literally nothing and die. Rose was practically non-existent, and invalidating her just seems to placate the racist, sexist bigots who chased her off social media.

3. The MacGuffin-chasing, videogame fetch-quest that dominated two-thirds of the film.

4. The final battle between the fleets was so...empty. In ROTJ, we know what the fleet needed to do, what objectives they had to accomplish, and could simply pay attention to how it unfolded. In 9, it was just ships flying around shooting each other as the goal posts kept moving around. The X-Wings Miniature fans are not happy, lol.

What I liked:

1. The aesthetics to Palpatine's lair, and his cultists, were creepy as **** and I loved it.

2. Williams' score was amazing as ever.

3. Ben and Han's interactions stole the show.

4. Seeing Rey struggle with her anger and hatred was probably the best depiction of someone fighting to find balance we've ever seen. She accidentally shot lightning from her hands!

5. I don't hate the DBZ-level power-scaling of the Force. In this case, Palpatine and Rey were basically channeling the Force in its entirety, and if it was less, it would have been underwhelming.

6. Hearing Liam Neeson and Samuel L. Jackson made me happy, even if we didn't get to actually see them.

*Yes, the previous movies would gloss over some development with the opening crawl, but these were the logical direction of the plot. The rebels fleeing to a new base on Hoth after the Battle of Yavin is logical, and we're not missing anything from not watching the logistics of retreat. Episode III opening with 'WAR!' isn't a major plot development when II ended with, 'Begun, the Clone Wars have.' It's the logical direction, and we don't feel cheated out of anything seeing the war has increased in scale.

But imagine if you had somehow been able to avoid any and all trailers, spoilers, and discussion of 9. After watching 8, you're expecting to see the most fledgling of Resistances struggling to overcome a First Order led by Supreme Leader Kylo Ren.

Then you get to the theater, sit down, and the first paragraph starts with 'Palp is back! Surprise!'

You'd be confused, and probably a bit angry.

Overall I liked it, although I can understand the bad reviews... I think it was pretty mediocre as a movie but quite solid as a Star Wars movie. I think it showcases how important the cast of characters (and actors) is to Star Wars. If Ridley, Driver, Isaac and Boyega hadn't given this thing their all, despite a somewhat flawed script, it could have been painful to watch. As it was, it was a pleasure to see these characters bring their story to its conclusion. Bravo to the whole cast.

The good:

--Daisy Ridley and Adam Driver are two superb actors, and they really showed it here. Their on-screen chemistry is remarkable. Hard to imagine anyone but these two pulling off these roles. Too bad they didn't have an actor like Driver to play Anakin in the prequels.

--On a related note, I'm a big fan of Reylo and I thought they handled that aspect of it perfectly. After Last Jedi, we needed a satisfying resolution to the connection between these two, and we got one. (I'm also glad to see the movie repudiate the Twitter-mob moralists who kept intoning that this would be an "abusive relationship" or whatever. Star Wars is about redemption. If you want judgmental moral absolutism, find a different franchise.)

--Lando was used effectively without taking over the movie.

--Han's cameo was wonderful. Unlike in Force Awakens, Ford turned in a very good performance and looked like he actually wanted to be there.

--They handled the Leia thing about as well as they possibly could have. I really admired this aspect of the movie, it took genuine creativity.

--These writers know how to write a good C3PO joke! We haven't had good C3PO humor like this since the OT.

--Abrams seems to have a better grasp than Johnson on how to evoke the Star Wars atmosphere. Neutral camera perspective, not much slow-mo, Original Trilogy-style sets... this felt more like a real Star Wars movie than TLJ did, although it was not as innovative visually.

--Allegiant General Pryde was a compelling sidekick for Palpatine. A big part of Star Wars is compelling side characters like this.

--I liked where the galaxy, and Rey, ended up at the end of the story.

The bad:

--I loved the idea that Rey was nobody from nowhere. If they were going to depart from that, having her be a Palpatine is about the best choice they could make, but I'm still sad to see that theme dropped.

--The OP Force lightning was distracting. Not just Palpatine's, but Rey's as well.

--The last battle was the movie's big weak point. In both of the two arenas (the space battle and the confrontation with Sheev P) the "rules of the game" were never quite clear. What did the good guys need to accomplish for victory? What were the bad guys capable of? There seemed to be no rules.

--On a related note, why was Rey going to die at the end before Ben healed her?

--The new characters (Zorii Bliss and ex-stormtrooper gal) were boring and served no useful role in the story. Would've preferred more Rose instead.

--Could have used more Luke.

2 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

I think it was pretty mediocre as a movie but quite solid as a Star Wars movie.

Yes. I am on board with this sentiment.

4 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Yes. I am on board with this sentiment.

Star Wars has long had the "pizza and sex" equivalence, where even if its not best it's still pizza and sex.

SW has never ultimately been anything more than trope-influenced films, with great visuals, and simple moral messages with an eye for a younger audience... but I think that's why so many people love them anyway.

7 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Yes. I am on board with this sentiment.

Yeah, interesting, arguably The Last Jedi (which I actually enjoyed) could be said to be the reverse.

11 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

On a related note, why was Rey going to die at the end before Ben healed her?

I think it's to show that he could do what Anakin couldn't; use the Force to save someone he cared about, essentially proving Palpatine was wrong in implying only the Sith could save people from death (or maybe near-death?).

That I am not on board with.
Excellent movie, excellent Star Wars movie too.

1 hour ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Nope

I was generalizing and yes my kids liked all three movies.

46 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:

That I am not on board with.
Excellent movie, excellent Star Wars movie too.

Excellent movie was Empire Strikes Back. This is medicore at best if someone just like another CGI movie.... It's nowhere near Excellent movie.

Joker was excellent movie this year.

1 minute ago, TheWizurd said:

I was generalizing and yes my kids liked all three movies.

Well, my kids also liked Jar Jar Binks when they watched him first time...

2 minutes ago, Benny89 said:

Well, my kids also liked Jar Jar Binks when they watched him first time...

How wuude!

Meh. I liked it better than Ep8, but that was a very low bar. Kinda glad it's over.

14 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Joker is a piece of crap that makes a certain group of people feel special. Guess you are a part of that group.

I like both Joker and RoS, why do we need to be so polarized about people’s enjoyment of films.

As much as I didn't like the movie, my dislike was entirely on the story. I thought the actors all gave fine performances.

1 hour ago, StriderZessei said:

I think it's to show that he could do what Anakin couldn't; use the Force to save someone he cared about, essentially proving Palpatine was wrong in implying only the Sith could save people from death (or maybe near-death?).

I understand the story reason, but what was the medical reason for her to die? She didn't get hit by lightning

14 minutes ago, Eoen said:

I like both Joker and RoS, why do we need to be so polarized about people’s enjoyment of films.

Agreed. Many would say that RoS is just as problematic because they redeemed Ben and sidelined Rose. You can always find things to be judgmental about in a movie if you're looking hard.

On 12/19/2019 at 10:11 PM, Donovan Morningfire said:

To be honest, that was the one part of the film's story that just didn't sit well with me, and facepalmed at that particular revelation. To me, it felt like the writers were trying to throw a bone to the "we hate Rey!" crowd, who have long since decided that Star Wars is dead to them so long as Disney owns the property, and in the process crapped on the whole aspect of her being a nobody with no special lineage that Episode 8 established. If anything, it came across as a hamfisted retcon to try and explain why Rey was so gifted a Force user, even after we'd already had Anakin who was (if Shmi is to be believed) a virgin birth and was essentially conceived by the Force.

I honestly feel that her standing up to Palpatine would have worked just as well if she weren't related to the old prune, if not better because here is this "nobody from nowhere" who was the one to finally end Palp's decades (centuries?) of scheming.

So having seen the movie a second time now, I noticed that at no time does Palpatine really consider Rey's identity when he's speaking to her. He calls "scavenger" or "vessel" or "grandchild," none of which really suggest that he sees her as anything more than just a tool for his ambitions.

And her parents did apparently got out of their way to be "nobodies" themselves, going into hiding from Palps in the hopes of keeping their daughter out of the old creep's hands.

Doesn't really improve my opinion on the "Rey is a Palpatine" approach or not, but at least it's not quite the total "screw you!" to TLJ that I initially felt it was after my first viewing.

1 minute ago, DaverWattra said:

Agreed. Many would say that RoS is just as problematic because they redeemed Ben and sidelined Rose.

I thought it was weird they sidelined Rose, only to introduce two new characters who had less impact than DJ.

They brought Maz back and a bunch of older characters back who seemed unimportant to the plot.

2 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

So having seen the movie a second time now, I noticed that at no time does Palpatine really consider Rey's identity when he's speaking to her. He calls "scavenger" or "vessel" or "grandchild," none of which really suggest that he sees her as anything more than just a tool for his ambitions.

Palpatine is the archetypical Sociopath/Psychopath, Narcissist and Machiavellian. He’s the whole dark triad burrito.

35 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

I understand the story reason, but what was the medical reason for her to die? She didn't get hit by lightning

She died for the same reason as Ben did, Palpatine sucked half the life force out from the Dyad leaving only enough for one person.

I wonder if that was a canonical example of dark side heal/harm on his part?

1 minute ago, Eoen said:

She died the same reason as Ben did, Palpatine sucked half the life force out from the Dyad leaving only enough for one person.

I wonder if that was a canonical example of heal/harm on his part?

Pre movie spoilers had them combining into one being. I wonder if that still applies or was just an earlier script? Did Rey absorb his personality as well as life force? Here's hoping that the novel explains more than the movie.