Hi, I have just got in to Legion and loving it :), I have a few questions about the use of Rebel Snipers and how best to use them.

My current build includes 2 x Rebel Commando Teams each consisting of the following;

Rebel Commandos

DLT-19 Sniper

Overwatch

TargetingScopes

My initial theory was they were going to be priority targets for the Imperial player which is why I took Commandos instead of strike teams, I figured the more the enemy has to kill the longer they would be on the table. With the upgrade Overwatch I planned to have them on standby (once in postion) all through the game and use targeting scopes for that extra die re-roll. I was using ALL the key words on the cards for all weapons as per the rules.

But as I was playing, a lot of my build and upgrades became redundant. Below is my interpretation of the rules which brought me to that conclusion.

OVERWATCH - Overall this would have worked well, but I found I was not putting my troops on standby as there were always targets of opportunity and constant threats that I needed to get rid of. Standby only seems useful if you have no targets to shoot at.

DLT-19 Sniper - HIGH VELOCITY & PIERCE 1 - This is where the plan fell down, originally I was using the All keywords contribute to the attack rules as per the rules reference and I was killing everything in sight using Sharpshooter, Precise 1, High Velocity and Pierce 1. Then I read the HIGH VELOCITY rules again and it says "While attacking, if each weapon in your attack pool has HIGH VELOCITY, the defender cannot spend dodge tokens.

So to me, the sniper weapon is the only one that can contribute HIGH VELOCITY to the attack and therefore to benefit I would have to do seperate attack pools. I found there was normally only ever 1 target of opportunity so I had to decide whether to use the team or just the sniper for the attack.

A sniper rolling 2 dice, sharpshooter reducing cover by 1, high velocity for the anti dodge, then pierce 1 to cancel a defence die, targeting scopes are redundant as I only roll 2 dice, so lets say I roll 2 criits, enemy rolls 2 defends, I cancel one and get a guarenteed kill unless it is a Commander OR

4 Rebel Commandos rolling 4 dice, sharpshooter reducing cover by 1, HV and Pierce 1 are not included, targeting scopes for the added die just incase of misses. Let's say 4 crits, enemy rolls 4 defends no guarenteed kill.

Because I was only ever getting one taret in my scopes I didn't want to have to decide on which one to fire, so I decided to go with Strike Teams instead, for the price of 2 Commando units (plus upgrades) I can get 3 strike teams and I equipped them with endurance to control suppression.

QUESTION : Suppression will give me cover 1, is this classed as light cover? And will this stack with Low Profile giving me cover 2? I have been playing on the premise that it does. I have yet to test this build.

Also, with my 2 Commando unit builds I only get 8 activations, where as with a few minor adjustments with a 3 x Strike Team build I get 10 activations. The below lists are just for reference so you know what I was and intend to work with.

OLD BUILD (8 activations)

Luke - Force Reflexes (for the doge), Jedi Mind Trick (to try and suppress / panic) and Emergency Stims (keep forgetting to use it, lol)

3 x RT w/Z-6

2 x RC - DLT-19 Sniper, Overwatch, Targeting Scopes

AT-RT w/ Rotary Cannon

1 x Airspeeder w/Outer Rim Speeder Jockey, Ax-108 Ground Buzzer ( I was running this straight through the enmy lines so needed as much cover as pos)

NEW BUILD (10 activations)

Luke - Force Reflexes (for the doge), Jedi Mind Trick (to try and suppress / panic) and Emergency Stims

3 x RT w/Z-6

1 x RT

3 x RC Strike Teams - Endurance (to control suppression)

AT-RT w/ Rotary Cannon

1 x Airspeeder w/Outer Rim Speeder Jockey, (lose the ground buzzer)

I was thinking of losing the extra Trooper unit and include a medic unit to run along side the Strike teams in case of casualties, and then add an extra trooper to the other 2 trooper units.

6 hours ago, T9FURY said:

QUESTION : Suppression will give me cover 1, is this classed as light cover? And will this stack with Low Profile giving me cover 2? I have been playing on the premise that it does. I have yet to test this build.

Also, with my 2 Commando unit builds I only get 8 activations, where as with a few minor adjustments with a 3 x Strike Team build I get 10 activations. The below lists are just for reference so you know what I was and intend to work with.

Your first question, the answer is yes, Suppression gives you light cover, so Low Profile will increase that cover by 1, to Cover 2. You cannot go above Cover 2, fyi.

Always play the Commandos as Strike Team only. So your 2nd list is far better. If you have more than 1 AT-RT, play them instead of the T-47.

As already said, suppression does stack, so duck and cover can be a good upgrade.

I usually play the commandos as a full squad and they are very often the stars.

They have 2 of the best keywords for range units, sharpshooter and Pierce. They are a bit pricey but so worth it in my opinion.

It sounds like you're unfamiliar with combining weapons and creating pools. You can combine with rifles with the sniper rifle, you just won't benefit from High Velocity. It rarely comes into play anyway, while Pierce is the best keyword in the game.

When building lists you need to remember some tenets.

1. In a vacuum, more activations is better

2. You want a list that plays cohesively and without much thought

3. Using units that work together and have the same goals is good

4. If a unit is good, spam it

Using these tenets, you can find out why so many world's lists are similar or why sniper spam was such a good thing it was brought up to the developers direct attention. Units that are simple to play and get results are cheap, little to no tactics, and similar. For instance, RTs are spammable up to 6 units. This means that more than half of the units in your list will want to do the same thing, which is to capture objectives by numbers alone. Another example is Snipers. Snipers are 48 points of goodness that have pierce, and long range. This means you can reliably deal damage from afar all game. This keeps them safe and can suppress your enemy.

Going off of your second build, which is much better for reasons listed above, there are some key changes that should be made to get the most out of your 800 points. Starting with Luke:
Commanders:
- Luke Skywalker (160): Force Push (10), Force Reflexes (10), Recon Intel (2) = 182

I recommend dropping E. Stims and JmT because E. Stims is pretty expensive at 12 points. You also really want force push because it is a game winning card. You can find reasoning here along with some other helpful tips. I also like recon intel to get him into the fight quicker, because you want the light saber to be chopping and the force to be pushing.

For the main part of our list, we will use Rebel Troopers. These guys are the backbone of the rebellion and a cheap, efficient fighting force. You can use the z-6 heavy to add some offensive kick to them, but many people have found them better naked as you can spam them more and their real goal is to intercept the transmissions or capture a key position. I put in 2 astromechs to take care of your airspeeder and 1 medic to take care of your snipers and Luke. Medic droids are some of the most point efficient upgrades you can take. 3 snipers are very strong, but you want to keep them cheap as they can die. They also don't get suppressed unless they are in a poor position or in a sniper firefight, you can minimize the impact by using the Luke's cards at the right time and recovering if need be.
- 2× Rebel Troopers (40) = 80
- 2× Rebel Troopers (40): R5 Astromech Droid (8) = 96
- Rebel Troopers (40): Medical Droid (18) = 58
Special Forces:
- 3× Strike Team (20): DH-447 Sniper (28) = 144

The supports are the odd choices. Normally, this would not synergies with the rest of the list because the AT-RT moves slow or stays still and fires, while the Airspeeder flys everywhere. There is also a question on how good these units are compared to other choices.
Supports:
- AT-RT (55): Rotary Blaster (20) = 75
Heavies:
- Airspeeder (140): Outer Rim Speeder Jockey (10), Ground Buzzer (10) = 160

Full list on the builder can be found here: https://legion-hq.herokuapp.com/list/rebels/1addtduda,2ah0000,2ah0et00,1ah0eu00,3aleg0000,1apgpff0,1aofc0

Hey all, thanks for the replies, much appreciated and certainly gives me a few things to think about. Playing solo probably isn't the best way to test a build but the reason I used the above old build was in the first couple of matches they seemed to perform outstandingly.

Luke - I run him down one side/third of the table. Backed up by the 2 Commando units as long range support. He was also good at taking out Speeder Bikes, in one activation he took out a 1 1/2 units. I did try Force Push but found there was never a situation that warranted it. The way I see it is you use it to either push units away if you are wounded or threatening another unit you want to keep safe or you use it to pull units to Luke to get them into combat quicker, maybe help in pulling units away from cover. Or when you saying game wining card are you using it to pull enemy unts off objectives? More views on this would be appreciated.

Commando Units - As above, they did support Luke well and kept some Scouts and ST's at bay.

T-47 - In one of my first games I took the Airspeeded straight to enemy and went running down the frontline using Arsenal, he literally ripped up about 3 Stormtrooper squads, he did take ome mild damage enroute and finally got took out my Palpatine. So I figure I would use the same tactic but run it ahead of Luke so it takes the focus off him, and if I include an R5 in an RT unit I could do hit n run attacks and get back and repair. I have yet to try this. Originally I had Wedge flying, but as I use it to run straight through the enemy lines I want teh speeder jockey for the extra cover.

Rebel Troopers - At the time I only had 3 squads so I ran these down the other side of the table mobbing the objectives and hopefully keep some ST's at bay.

AT-RT - He was just a middle table support unit and just went where he was needed, turns out he went with the troopers, I have tried both the laser cannon and the rotary blaster and found the blaster to be more effective.

On 12/17/2019 at 4:20 AM, manoftomorrow010 said:

Always play the Commandos as Strike Team only. So your 2nd list is far better. If you have more than 1 AT-RT, play them instead of the T-47.

I have created a build with 11 activations that includes 3 AT-RT's but only has 4 RT's and 3 RCST's, but I haven't got the extra models yet, I might just proxy them to see how the build runs first.

On 12/17/2019 at 12:01 PM, landoro said:

As already said, suppression does stack, so duck and cover can be a good upgrade.

I usually play the commandos as a full squad and they are very often the stars.

They have 2 of the best keywords for range units, sharpshooter and Pierce. They are a bit pricey but so worth it in my opinion.

What is your reasoning behind the Commando full teams as opposed to Strike Teams? My thinking is firepower and numbers for wounds? When I ran full teams I kept them hanging back fear of them becoming early victims, but then moved them into range 3 for the firepower of the group.

On 12/17/2019 at 1:39 PM, arnoldrew said:

It sounds like you're unfamiliar with combining weapons and creating pools. You can combine with rifles with the sniper rifle, you just won't benefit from High Velocity. It rarely comes into play anyway, while Pierce is the best keyword in the game.

Well I did know that I can combine different weapons in to the same pool, it's just you lose high velocity which then makes the snipers kind of redundant aside from the extra dice in your attack pool. You say it hardly comes into play? Is that because hardly any dodge tokens are about?

On 12/17/2019 at 3:23 PM, Cleto0 said:

Going off of your second build, which is much better for reasons listed above, there are some key changes that should be made to get the most out of your 800 points. Starting with Luke:

Commanders:
- Luke Skywalker (160): Force Push (10), Force Reflexes (10), Recon Intel (2) = 182

I recommend dropping E. Stims and JmT because E. Stims is pretty expensive at 12 points. You also really want force push because it is a game winning card. You can find reasoning here along with some other helpful tips. I also like recon intel to get him into the fight quicker, because you want the light saber to be chopping and the force to be pushing.

For the main part of our list, we will use Rebel Troopers. These guys are the backbone of the rebellion and a cheap, efficient fighting force. You can use the z-6 heavy to add some offensive kick to them, but many people have found them better naked as you can spam them more and their real goal is to intercept the transmissions or capture a key position. I put in 2 astromechs to take care of your airspeeder and 1 medic to take care of your snipers and Luke. Medic droids are some of the most point efficient upgrades you can take. 3 snipers are very strong, but you want to keep them cheap as they can die. They also don't get suppressed unless they are in a poor position or in a sniper firefight, you can minimize the impact by using the Luke's cards at the right time and recovering if need be.
- 2× Rebel Troopers (40) = 80
- 2× Rebel Troopers (40): R5 Astromech Droid (8) = 96
- Rebel Troopers (40): Medical Droid (18) = 58
Special Forces:
- 3× Strike Team (20): DH-447 Sniper (28) = 144

The supports are the odd choices. Normally, this would not synergies with the rest of the list because the AT-RT moves slow or stays still and fires, while the Airspeeder flys everywhere. There is also a question on how good these units are compared to other choices.
Supports:
- AT-RT (55): Rotary Blaster (20) = 75
Heavies:
- Airspeeder (140): Outer Rim Speeder Jockey (10), Ground Buzzer (10) = 160

Full list on the builder can be found here: https://legion-hq.herokuapp.com/list/rebels/1addtduda,2ah0000,2ah0et00,1ah0eu00,3aleg0000,1apgpff0,1aofc0

Why Recon for Luke? I would have thought it more impottant to keep him alive than get him up the table quickly, Scout 1 doesn't really get you that far.

I have built about 20 different Luke builds and bought alot more units since my last posting so alot of testing is happening. Originally my plan was each time I purchase I was going for 1 Imperial and 1 Rebel, normally I like playing the bad guys but the rebels just seem so diverse I enjoy playing them.

So far I have Luke, Leia and Han.

4 Rebel Trooper Units

1 Fleet Trooper Unit

2 Commando Units

1 pathfinder Unit

1 AT-RT

1 T-47

1 Lanspeeder.

So, alot of playtesting ahead, not to metion painting.

Again, thanks for all the help and views.

2 hours ago, T9FURY said:

Well I did know that I can combine different weapons in to the same pool, it's just you lose high velocity which then makes the snipers kind of redundant aside from the extra dice in your attack pool. You say it hardly comes into play? Is that because hardly any dodge tokens are about?

You see it sometimes. I feel like now you've missed the fact that the sniper rifle has Pierce 1 as well, which is - as I said - the best keyword in the game.

1 minute ago, arnoldrew said:

You see it sometimes. I feel like now you've missed the fact that the sniper rifle has Pierce 1 as well, which is - as I said - the best keyword in the game.

No no, I get the whole adding pierce for the sniper aswell, I guess I feel it isn't doing the job I am paying it to do if it can't use High Velocity. But bear in mind though I have only had 3 games so far, so have a lot to learn and alot of experimenting to do to see what works best for me.

The reason I use a full squad is so I can take full advantage of the combo sharpshooter and pierce at a range 3.

5 black, 1 white is not the most impressive dice pool perhaps but with those 2 keywords you will get just and wounds through cover and rolls.

It does not bother me to much that I lose high velocity since it does not come into play often.

I'll have to see what happens when I play against other players then just see if I preder full squads or strike teams.

On 12/19/2019 at 3:06 PM, T9FURY said:

Why Recon for Luke? I would have thought it more impottant to keep him alive than get him up the table quickly, Scout 1 doesn't really get you that far.

I have built about 20 different Luke builds and bought alot more units since my last posting so alot of testing is happening. Originally my plan was each time I purchase I was going for 1 Imperial and 1 Rebel, normally I like playing the bad guys but the rebels just seem so diverse I enjoy playing them

It is important to keep him alive, but with e. Stims you still take the wounds, just on your next activation. I like intel because every inch matters in this game.

I recommend running a bunch of things to see if you like them. For instance, the T-47 is a heavy Cavalry unit, but the land speeder plays more like a light tank. Pathfinders are a lot of fun in my opinion especially with jyn, and now cassian to get some really intense infiltrate maneuvers. So some people like the cavalry, some do not, but most people are able to find a rebel list that really suits them. Unless you wanted a heavily armored set of units, they do not exist yet 😛

Well I deleted all the builds I did and just concentrating on 4, exactly the same units just different upgrades in each one and I'll see what works and see how each unit gets on. I might get rid of E.Stims anyway because I keep forgetting to use them, lol. The one build where he hasn't got them I have an RT unit with a med, so I might try and keep that unit nearby.

I played a game last night with the above build going against Palpatine, 3 ST, 1 ScT and 3 Speeder Bikes. It didn't bode well for the Rebels. The 2 Commando units got took out by the SP's with Luke taking some initial damage, the Airspeeder some some initial hits from the Scout Trropers and finally got took out by a Trooper unit. Luke finally got anihilated by Palpatine. The Rebel Troopers did ok initially taking some objectives on the other side of the board, but got whittled down by a couple of Trooper units and finally by the 2 Speeder Bike units that were left. The AT-RT took longer to take out but that is because it hung back but finally fell to the speeder bikes.

Alot of it was due to poor dice rolls for the rebels.