Okay okay okay. I know this has been beaten back and forth so many times. But.

I really want the devs to know how much we want an I5 pilot for the RZ-1 and A/SF-01 B-Wing, and just how well Hera Syndulla fits the bill.

Naturally I think she deserves a more suitable pilot ability for her role as Squadron Leader. Spectre-1 is fine for Piloting freighters and shuttles, but somewhat lackluster on a starfighter as it's basically just a "Fix my mistake" ability and doesn't actually contribute anything in terms of actual efficiency.

For this reason, I propose Hera Syndulla – Phoenix Leader:

(Perhaps it would be more balanced without the easy multi-stress removal?)

An ability somewhat like her crew ability, with some Tycho thrown in, balanced slightly for 2nd edition. Excellent synergy between both chassis, but at a commensurate and somewhat prohibitive cost. After all, you could get this incredibly maneuverable B-Wing, or you could get Luke Skywalker. And Unlike Ten Numb, she'll still have to do a blue every other turn or she'll be in for a lot of trouble. On the other hand, that would make room for another quite useful upgrade with an excellent synergy. I give you, the B-6 Prototype:

(Apologies for the bad font and lack of carriage returns; the card builder I used was weird)

THIS is what we saw in "Wings of the Master." Sure, what came out of Slayn & Korpil didn't fly worth much, but Quarrie's prototype could move. Clocking in at an eye-watering 24 points, this is something like an inverse Delta-7B for the B-Wing. Suddenly the plodding B-Wing becomes one of the most agile knife-fighters in the game. The excellent suite of reds is still quite useful for close-quarters combat, but now the dial looks more like an R4 E-Wing minus the 5-straight and 3-turns than a humble V-19 Torrent. Not exactly fast, but nimble, the blue 2- turns would give Hera even more options for clearing double-stress, while the 2nd agility die gives fodder for elusive or general defensive capability. The gunner slot is entirely useless to Rebels in its current form, but maybe that could be addressed with another addition:

(Just spitballed this TBH, no idea what a good price would be, maybe 6?)

Not much to look at here, mainly a slightly less forceful Hotshot Gunner that punishes lucky green dice rolls and works on front-arc attacks.

Not married to this idea so it's fine if you think it's stupid. AND NOW for the moment you've been waiting for. That's right, the Composite Laser Beam:

(Should be double-slot but no option in the builder I used. Why no upgrades in Strange Eons?)

Yep, that's six attack dice, also known as the hard maximum in the game. You can't do much better than this, and with all crits turning to hits you can punch right into the hull of a Raider with this bad boy. But only IF:

• You get a Focus

• And a Target Lock

• On the ship you want to hit

• That happens to be in your bullseye arc

• At range 2-3 (you know, that tiny HLC range band?)

• On the 4th, 7th, or 11th turn of the game only (good luck surviving longer than that; try docking I guess?)

• AND you don't mind definite ionization afterwards (Electronic Baffle will not save you)

• AND you don't mind not getting any rerolls at all (You spent the lock, so no lock and no FCS. I guess you could PS if you got the lock from Dutch but why would you?)

I feel like 10 points is a decent price for this, and the design will keep it almost strictly in casual. I guess you could bring it to a tournament if you want, but that's a massive gamble. If the stars don't align, you've probably lost your ship and haven't done any meaningful damage with it. But against large or huge ships it could potentially really shine, and it would practically evaporate a Y-Wing if you managed to land it just right.

Well, if we put all that together we could come up with a couple of awesome builds! First, we take the lovely A-Wing:

• Hera Syndulla – Phoenix Leader (44 points)

Elusive (3 points)

Composure (1 point)

Concussion Missiles (6 points)

So finally Rebels have a kinda-halfway-decent high-initiative ace with some passive abilities and maneuverability, and at only 54 points that's not too bad. She can go wherever she wants unless she gets blocked, and she can hit pretty hard three times. No force or reliable 3 dice like Inqy gets, but slippery as anything.

Second, let's face this monster that is the iconic Blade Wing Prototype:

• Hera Syndulla – Phoenix Leader (62 points)

• Elusive (3 points)

• B-6 Prototype (24 points)

• Composite Laser Beam (10 points)

• Sabine Wren (6 points)

• Advanced Sensors (10 points)

And there you have it: a 115 point Hera Syndulla! You could ad Proton Torpedoes to take that right up to 127 points if you wanted to! Of course, that's a stupid idea, but at least all those options are out there on the table. Actually, Hera wouldn't rely that heavily on a Sensor upgrade due to her action economy, and Sabine and the Laser Beam would likely be overkill as well. Just taking Hera with Elusive and the Title clocks in at a much more reasonable 89 points (you know, the cost of Han Solo with the Falcon title) and you could probably do some serious work with that super-ace.

Okay, so maybe these suggestions aren't all that serious, but still. We're long overdue for a high-initiative Rebel Ace, and equally overdue for Hera Syndulla to get the Ace Pilot treatment. Of course, many of you probably have vehement disagreements with my approach here, or at least with my results. I'm curious how you all feel about Hera and how you'd like to see her and the upgrades that would go with the B-Wing prototype come into the game? I'm curious to start a conversation, and even more eager to let FFG know that this is definitely still something we want, very badly!

I'd be fine with her regular ability on either of those chassis. It makes her nigh-impossible to block, especially in an A-Wing. Being to change her dial to any other blue maneuver as an A-Wing pilot would arguably be broken.

Is it strange that the new Hera I want most is X-Wing? Her ability would actually be quite reasonable there. Not too many blues, not too many reds, but just a simple, fairly-dodgy ace. 48 would probably be fine, same as Thane is now.

//

Hera A-Wing doesn't need to be 44 points. 38-39 probably does it, based on current levels.

62 would also be too much for the B-Wing. 54-55 should probably be enough.

Wait... Composure. So it's a Lock+Focus A-Wing. Composure is at once the best and worst design. It's training wheels against the harsher action failure rules in 2e, so that you don't hate your life when you mess up a barrel roll. No one ever uses it, but they could, and that's a fair existence for a Talent. Maybe even could go down to free. Except there's a few places where it becomes "hey, lets give you a free Focus token for 1 point" and it's utter BS.

Can we just find a way to errata Composure so that composure tricks don't work (can't have a lock or a green token, can't perform other actions this activation as per Advanced Sensors) and make it 0 points, so that it could do the intended function of insurance against mistakes?

//

B-6 Prototype is kind of absurd, but in a fun way. Seems like it'd be amazing with Braylen Stramm, to roll-focus with all those blues to handle stress, and 2 green dice to reroll.

I'd also make it a Title/Mod upgrade. Getting discount Hull/Shield/Stealth Device on top of this would be a bit too far, and there's a decent number of more prototype-style ships in the game which don't get mod slots.

//

Sabine Gunner is I guess decent. Somewhere between Hotshot Gunner and Clone Commander Cody. Doesn't feel very Sabine-y to me, but mechanically fine.

//

Composite Beam Laser should be a Command-Cannon-Cannon upgrade, so that it doesn't have to be balanced in standard play, and so that it can't be protected by Veteran Wing Leader.

It strikes me that the easiest way to do a CBL would probably just to rip off 95% of Turbolaser. 3 dice, range 3-5, bullseye. If you hit, add 3 results. Spend 3 charges to fire (maybe 3 charges and a Focus, to make double-mods hard), with 3 recurring charges. Maybe make it automatically apply any Precision Shot Effects, as per Dreadnaught Hunter.

Personally, I don't really like the "Fire now or lose it" mechanic. It seems like trying to balance something fundamentally unbalance-able. To put this on the table and never get to fire it because it requires such an extreme confluence of events would be a major feelsbadmaam moment.

Based on my interpretation from the show, if she were in a less bulky ship she should be an i6. Possibly just my head cannon.

Also, are there any female i6s for the good guys? I think at this point it's only the First Order at this point, correct?

I'm gonna get depressed about pilot packs real fast if it's just "I want an i5/6 with force/dial changing/passive mods in every ship"

Can the next pilot pack be multi-dot generics for every faction instead?

On 12/13/2019 at 7:02 PM, PhantomFO said:

I'd be fine with her regular ability on either of those chassis. It makes her nigh-impossible to block, especially in an A-Wing. Being to change her dial to any other blue maneuver as an A-Wing pilot would arguably be broken.

Hence the change: more fun, less broken.

10 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I'd also make it a Title/Mod upgrade. Getting discount Hull/Shield/Stealth Device on top of this would be a bit too far, and there's a decent number of more prototype-style ships in the game which don't get mod slots.

Good point! I like it!

10 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Composite Beam Laser should be a Command-Cannon-Cannon upgrade, so that it doesn't have to be balanced in standard play, and so that it can't be protected by Veteran Wing Leader.

oh but I want it in standard though...

Still you’re probably right...

10 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

It strikes me that the easiest way to do a CBL would probably just to rip off 95% of Turbolaser. 3 dice, range 3-5, bullseye. If you hit, add 3 results. Spend 3 charges to fire (maybe 3 charges and a Focus, to make double-mods hard), with 3 recurring charges. Maybe make it automatically apply any Precision Shot Effects, as per Dreadnaught Hunter.

Kind of a nice interpretation for epic TBH. I guess epic would be a better home for it by nature anyway.

10 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Personally, I don't really like the "Fire now or lose it" mechanic. It seems like trying to balance something fundamentally unbalance-able. To put this on the table and never get to fire it because it requires such an extreme confluence of events would be a major feelsbadmaam moment.

The point was mainly to demonstrate that a 6-die attack isn’t necessarily OP in standard, but I agree that the restrictions are excessive. Bullseye-Lock with a cooldown might even be enough.

I slightly prefer the thematics of a crit cascade over 3 flat damage. The latter feels accurate for a turbolaser, but not as much for this IMO. It punishes high hull rather than low-agi, and it’s more likely to miss arc than to whiff.

Positioning > Variance is the idea anyway.

10 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Hera A-Wing doesn't need to be 44 points. 38-39 probably does it, based on current levels.

62 would also be too much for the B-Wing. 54-55 should probably be enough.

Oh, I forgot; yeah those are way high. Stress mitigation is really powerful but it’s not force. I was trying to be conservative.

Also I would like to see her in an X-Wing too, just not with her current ability. It’s just kinda boring in my opinion.

10 hours ago, Whalers on the moon said:

Based on my interpretation from the show, if she were in a less bulky ship she should be an i6. Possibly just my head cannon.

Also, are there any female i6s for the good guys? I think at this point it's only the First Order at this point, correct?

Arguably, but I6 should be kept rare, and I’d rather have her on multiple chassis than at I6. Not convinced she’s as good as Vader, but then she did outsmart him, and also taught Wedge everything he knows...

I5 is just safer.

10 hours ago, svelok said:

I'm gonna get depressed about pilot packs real fast if it's just "I want an i5/6 with force/dial changing/passive mods in every ship"

Can the next pilot pack be multi-dot generics for every faction instead?

I think stuff like the Baktoids, Handmaidens, etc. are super cool and I would like to see them. I also think that there’s lots of pilots that I’d love to see as I1-I4.

Still, Empire and Rebels are proportionally quite thin on aces. Most high-I pilots are on freighters or bombers (except the bizarre Fennbug).

Definitely don’t want more I6. Don’t need much more I5 either, it’s just the chassis that makes the difference (Interceptors and A-Wings are sorely lacking).

1 hour ago, ClassicalMoser said:

The point was mainly to demonstrate that a 6-die attack isn’t necessarily OP in standard, but I agree that the restrictions are excessive. Bullseye-Lock with a cooldown might even be enough.

I slightly prefer the thematics of a crit cascade over 3 flat damage. The latter feels accurate for a turbolaser, but not as much for this IMO. It punishes high hull rather than low-agi, and it’s more likely to miss arc than to whiff.

Could split the difference. Add three crits against a Huge ship. the thing is supposed to be a "blockade buster."

57 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Also I would like to see her in an X-Wing too, just not with her current ability. It’s just kinda boring in my opinion.

I just think it'd be a fun little X-Wing to put on a table, if it's not a particularly exciting new ship.

Chopper/Elusive would be an OK combo. Cheap with Crack Shot and maybe R4 (if that even works... the rulings on maneuver difficulty changes are a little incomprehensible). Alternately, an R2 might be nice, since swapping the direction of a 2-bank into a boost could get out of some sticky situations and regain a shield. When it's time to flip, you can swap between the various T-Rolls and K-Turn to get to a nice position.

11 hours ago, Whalers on the moon said:

Based on my interpretation from the show, if she were in a less bulky ship she should be an i6. Possibly just my head cannon.

First of all, Initiative isn't pilot skill, and in terms of lore, 6 isn't "better" than 5. Just look at Chewie in Solo or TLJ. He's a better pilot than Han (look at what Chewie can do solo with the Falcon), but Han takes the credit and also he's really quick on the draw, so he's Init 6. Obi-Wan isn't a great pilot, probably worse than Saesee Tiin.

11 hours ago, Whalers on the moon said:

Also, are there any female i6s for the good guys? I think at this point it's only the First Order at this point, correct?

Lets see...

• (he/him) Han, Wedge, Fenn Rau, Vader/Anakin, Soontir, Dengar, Poe, Midnight. Vonreg is on the way.
• (she/her) Quickdraw
• (they/them) Sun Fac

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

(she/her) Quickdraw

I thought this was still up in the air? I know many are hoping to see “Quickdraw” confirmed as the callsign of Poldin LeHuse...

Always referred to as “they” in articles up to this point IIRC, same as Backdraft.

7 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I thought this was still up in the air? I know many are hoping to see “Quickdraw” confirmed as the callsign of Poldin LeHuse...

Always referred to as “they” in articles up to this point IIRC, same as Backdraft.

First Edition used she/her for Quickdraw, he/him for Backdraft. Couldn't find anything specifically in 2e. The various wikis are no help; the X-Wing Wikia references Wookieepedia, and Wookiepedia references the X-Wing Wikia.

15 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

The various wikis are no help; the X-Wing Wikia references Wookieepedia, and Wookiepedia references the X-Wing Wikia.

On 12/15/2019 at 3:31 AM, ClassicalMoser said:

Still, Empire and Rebels are proportionally quite thin on aces. Most high-I pilots are on freighters or bombers (except the bizarre Fennbug).

Empire, thin on aces? What?

Rebels sure, but Empire?

11 hours ago, Cerebrawl said:

Empire, thin on aces? What?

Proportionally.

They have 4-5 aces (Vader, Duchess, Soontir, Quiz, maybe Whisper).

So does Resistance (Poe, Ello, Nien, L’ulo, Tallie).

So does Republic (Anakin, Obi-Wan, Plo, Ric, maybe Windu).

My point is, for being a “mature” and “ace-based” faction, they only have comparable numbers to much younger and arguably less ace-centric factions. No I5 interceptors, actually only 10 I5s total, and of those one drives a freighter, two fly bombers, and 3 are cannon fodder...

Rebels have... 0-3? Wedge, Han, Luke, Corran, and Jake have variously been proposed. Corran and Precog Luke almost answer to the description but not super well. Wedge is a big maybe. None of them tend to work out that well as a maneuverable endgame solo piece though.

You May disagree. That’s fine.

1 hour ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Proportionally.

They have 4-5 aces (Vader, Duchess, Soontir, Quiz, maybe Whisper).

My point is, for being a “mature” and “ace-based” faction, they only have comparable numbers to much younger and arguably less ace-centric factions. No I5 interceptors, actually only 10 I5s total, and of those one drives a freighter, two fly bombers, and 3 are cannon fodder...

Vader, Duchess, Soontir, Grand Inquisitor, Whisper, Echo(i4 but oh so squirrelly), Rexler. There's a few others that can fit "triple aces" lists, like Marek(especially as a buddy to Rexler) and Vynder(good old hatchetman).

4 minutes ago, Cerebrawl said:

Vader, Duchess, Soontir, Grand Inquisitor, Whisper, Echo(i4 but oh so squirrelly), Rexler. There's a few others that can fit "triple aces" lists, like Marek(especially as a buddy to Rexler) and Vynder(good old hatchetman).

Again, you may disagree and I respect that. I'd personally put Rexler into Wedge's camp of "not quite maneuverable enough to use initaitive to full effect," though I suppose you could be right about Maarek. Vynder's only Repo is SLAM and his dial is pretty awful, so I'm not sure how I feel about calling him an ace, especially at I4... Of course the term "Ace" is a whole can of worms that's up for all sorts of interpretation.

Still I want to see more Imp Aces (Vult Skerris, Ciena Ree, etc). ST factions get made-up pilots at I5 (Blackout, TIE/ba pilot) and I6 (Quickdraw, Midnight); why can't we get real ones from lore?

But I do agree that Rebels are far more hard-up for them, and Scum's a little short too, though as much from cost as anything else, and isn't as ace-y of a faction thematically anyway.

8 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

But I do agree that Rebels are far more hard-up for them, and Scum's a little short too, though as much from cost as anything else, and isn't as ace-y of a faction thematically anyway.

Scum is really hard up for aces. Fenn, Guri, Boba, after that you're scraping the barrel. Han and Dengar are not aces, though I guess i4 Starviper Dalan Oberos might count. As much as I love Talonbane and Old Teroch, they're not aces, same for Ketsu. 4-LOM as i3 "Ace"? LOL(if nothing else he makes Aces' lives difficult), to quote a local imperial player "he's horrible"(in the sense of: to face).

6 minutes ago, Cerebrawl said:

As much as I love Talonbane and Old Teroch, they're not aces

Agree re: large bases. Disagree on these. Talonbane with AB is an ace; he's just an overpriced ace. He has I5, extra damage, and multi-reposition. He's not a very good ace because his ability doesn't synergize well with his platform (until the Engine Upgrade card art becomes reality anyway), but it's hard to say he isn't one.

Similarly, Teroch isn't quite an arc-dodger, but neither is Fenn Rau, exactly. He doesn't Wreck or Tank like Fenn does, but he still has good repositioning at good initiative and plenty of evasion if he's placed right.

But I definitely do want to see more good aces for scum. I'm just not sure what that looks like yet since thematically they mostly fly tricked-out freighters rather than dodgy starfighters.

There's probably something good in the future of the cartels, and of course I'm always down for more mandos.

13 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Again, you may disagree and I respect that. I'd personally put Rexler into Wedge's camp of "not quite maneuverable enough to use initaitive to full effect," though I suppose you could be right about Maarek. Vynder's only Repo is SLAM and his dial is pretty awful, so I'm not sure how I feel about calling him an ace, especially at I4... Of course the term "Ace" is a whole can of worms that's up for all sorts of interpretation.

Rexler is a tank, with white kturns, and both repositions, if you want him really Acey you can give him advanced sensors so he can boost banks or barrel roll into kturn to avoid blocks. Plenty maneuverable, though granted he doesn't have double repositions. He's a points fortress and a hammer, and can definitely dogfight.

2 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

But I definitely do want to see more good aces for scum. I'm just not sure what that looks like yet since thematically they mostly fly tricked-out freighters rather than dodgy starfighters.

There's probably something good in the future of the cartels, and of course I'm always down for more mandos.

Unfortunately more because of lacking ships/pilots from FFG than lore. Where's my Cad Bane in Rogue Starfighter? Definitely hoping for more Scum ships from Mandalorian though.

4 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Agree re: large bases. Disagree on these. Talonbane with AB is an ace; he's just an overpriced ace. He has I5, extra damage, and multi-reposition. He's not a very good ace because his ability doesn't synergize well with his platform (until the Engine Upgrade card art becomes reality anyway), but it's hard to say he isn't one.

Similarly, Teroch isn't quite an arc-dodger, but neither is Fenn Rau, exactly. He doesn't Wreck or Tank like Fenn does, but he still has good repositioning at good initiative and plenty of evasion if he's placed right.

But I definitely do want to see more good aces for scum. I'm just not sure what that looks like yet since thematically they mostly fly tricked-out freighters rather than dodgy starfighters.

There's probably something good in the future of the cartels, and of course I'm always down for more mandos.

Fenn Rau has never been an arc dodger. He wants to be in your arc, and you in his.

Fenn Rau is a bull, and the most dangerous one in the game by far.

11 hours ago, KCDodger said:

Fenn Rau has never been an arc dodger. He wants to be in your arc, and you in his.

This. I would argue that ace =/= arc dodger.

Fenn Rau is, to me, an ace.

He gets his kills by coming straight through the centre of your firing arc, straight through the centre of your ship, and out the other side without detectably slowing down, rather than outflanking, but that doesn't make him not an ace given high cost, initiative and a relatively high skill requirement to use him effectively .

But that's getting into definition games.

Talonbane is, as noted, much like Wedge - he can be manoeuvrable with upgrades (far more so, in fact, since he can pack contraband cybernetics and/or the ability to cloak) but doesn't have 'innate' manoeuvrability. But he certainly meets my basic ace definition of "top-level pilot able to take on multiple generic pilots in otherwise equivalent ships"

On ‎12‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 3:51 PM, theBitterFig said:

Is it strange that the new Hera I want most is X-Wing? Her ability would actually be quite reasonable there. Not too many blues, not too many reds, but just a simple, fairly-dodgy ace. 48 would probably be fine, same as Thane is now.

I can imagine a lot of people liking access to a third I5 X-wing just to have the ability to field a purely I5+ squad.

Her default ability does get a lot better when attached to a ship capable of carrying an R4 Astromech - being able to switch turns 180' at high initiative is pretty impressive.