Question: what do the Republic and First Order factions have in common?

Answer: low ship counts!

As a few of you may know, I’ve been on a mission to make sure all of my models see table time in 2.0. E.g.: if I have six TIE/FOs, then I want to fly at least one list with six TIE/FOs. This is obviously less of a challenge with factions that I don’t have as many models of, as well as factions that just have fewer models in general. Both Republic and FO check both boxes for me, which is why I’m covering them both together.

Before I dive into the ships, I’ll share a few general impressions of the factions themselves.

In some ways, both Republic and FO represent peak excitement in X-Wing for me. The humble TIE/FO was one of my absolute favorite ships in 1.0; in fact, it was the splintering of Empire such that the Firespray went to Scum, and the TIE/FO went into nearly its own faction, that cemented my first two “conversion” factions in 2.0 as Scum and FO. Similarly, it was the debut of the Naboo N-1 that actually woke me back up from my post-1.0 hiatus and inspired me to get back into the game at all. (Yes, I like Phantom Menace that much. FIGHT ME.)

What I’ve found in 2.0 is that First Order is a fun faction that doesn’t feel hampered by its tiny ship-count. The ships are customizable, versatile, and powerful; plenty of ink has been spilled about how FO doesn’t have the same kind of “obvious” pilots like Soontir or Howlrunner, but they still have a bunch of options that work pretty well.

What I’ve found with Republic is that it’s hard to build a truly “bad” list. These guys are tough, reasonably hard-hitting, and priced to move. I do think there are some gaps between the super-good ships and the more situational (or even disadvantaged) ships, though, which is a little unsettling given how new of a faction it is.

So without further ado, let’s go to the ships. I’ll do Republic first, because (strangely enough) that works out to do almost everything in alphabetical order:

ARC-170 Starfighter: I have three. Welcome to the gun show! You want beef? You got beef. You want time on target? Got that, too. You want upgrade slots? Check. Only thing they don’t have is green dice. Otherwise, boy howdy!

BTL-B Y-Wing: I have one. I need to experiment with it more, as it’s just kind of a clunky chonker unless you put points into it. But then Y-Wings haven’t quite been my jam in 2.0 anyway, so I don’t know. Everyone seems to say Broadside is good, but I’m not as keen on the cruise-around-and-take-potshots style. I love the model but the ship feels meh.

Delta-7 Aethersprite: I have two. They’re so zippy! They can reposition like it’s 1.0 again! There’s tons of power here, and I’m sure I’ve only scratched the surface of what they can do, given that I haven’t tried all the pilots yet. But I can understand why these are tearing up the meta!

Naboo Royal N-1 Starfighter: I have one. I really want to get this ship, but I don’t yet. Ric is a monster by reputation, but it gets to be way too hard to keep him going fast enough & pointed in the right direction to do what he needs to do. It also seems like the cost of these guys balloons fast when you’re just trying to build some competent generics. I’m hoping for price cuts or something, because every time I try to build one, I end up feeling like I’d be better off with a comparably-priced ARC instead.

V-19 Torrent: I have two, and these are just great filler. Not amazing unto themselves, but pretty much perfect for what they’re supposed to be. Not a whole lot else to say, other than that I hope the price of non-Golds eventually comes down to the point where they’re worth considering.

////

TIE/FO Fighter: I have six of these bad boys, which I don’t regret in the slightest. I loved the FO in 1.0 and they still bring the pain in 2.0! Scorch with Fanatical, Optics, and Angled Deflectors is just mean. Even the humble Epsilon can be a pain to deal with. Super TIEs FTW.

TIE/SF Fighter: I have three. I was caught off-guard by the success of the mild-mannered gunnerless front-back generic, but I can also attest that it works. Just a brawler of a ship that—yes—can really move!

TIE/vn Silencer: I have one (and it’s a 1.0 Swolencer... le sigh). I feel like these have less raw efficiency than the rest of the FO faction ships; they always feel expensive to put on the table. But as interceptor-style ships go, I’d rather field something like this that actually has some HP rather than a flimsier example of the archetype.

Upsilon-Class Command Shuttle: I have two. I like rolling 4-dice primaries, don’t you?! I haven’t experimented with the various crew and pilot options, but I do enjoy rolling up with a couple of big bat-winged beatsticks and letting loose with a powerful primary. Yes, letting people get behind you would be problematic, but that’s why you have stop maneuvers and other ships to help screen.

so... will there be more? these look more like stat descriptions than anything else. I may consider chiming in too if you want to have another opinion. I've flown all my Republic, and some of my FO.

3 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

so... will there be more? these look more like stat descriptions than anything else. I may consider chiming in too if you want to have another opinion. I've flown all my Republic, and some of my FO.

By all means! I’m absolutely not an authority on the game, nor am I even all that good at it. I just started recording these thoughts for my own reference during the summer, and I decided to post them rather than keeping them on my phone or whatnot. If anyone gets anything out of them, great; if not, that’s okay too.

It's so bizarre to say the First Order has a low ship count when the most successful FO lists recently are 6-ship swarms.

5 minutes ago, Stay OT Leader said:

It's so bizarre to say the First Order has a low ship count when the most successful FO lists recently are 6-ship swarms.

@CoffeeMinion means total number of ships to choose from in that faction, not number of ships in a list.

Aaaaah!!!

3 hours ago, CoffeeMinion said:

BTL-B Y-Wing: I have one. I need to experiment with it more, as it’s just kind of a clunky chonker unless you put points into it. But then Y-Wings haven’t quite been my jam in 2.0 anyway, so I don’t know. Everyone seems to say Broadside is good, but I’m not as keen on the cruise-around-and-take-potshots style. I love the model but the ship feels meh.

The Y is a slow slow potato compared to the zippy Jedi, so if you're feeling the need for speed then look elsewhere. Broadside isn't a pot-shotter, though - he's a slow-moving area-control monster. His ion turret arc is a huge no-go zone for enemy aces. His job isn't to do damage, but rather to deny space to the enemy and lock down fast ships for you to kill.

3 hours ago, CoffeeMinion said:

Naboo Royal N-1 Starfighter: I have one. I really want to get this ship, but I don’t yet. Ric is a monster by reputation, but it gets to be way too hard to keep him going fast enough & pointed in the right direction to do what he needs to do. It also seems like the cost of these guys balloons fast when you’re just trying to build some competent generics. I’m hoping for price cuts or something, because every time I try to build one, I end up feeling like I’d be better off with a comparably-priced ARC instead.

Spot on - the N1 has very poor time on target, and Ric exacerbates that by flying very fast all the time. Personally, I've found Anakin to be best, because he doesn't have to go fast to be alright (proton torps + passive is alright on him, and advanced protons ani has been very successful too).

If you'll take it as a compliment, I thought your other articles were more inspiring.

12 hours ago, CoffeeMinion said:

TIE/FO Fighter: I have six of these bad boys, which I don’t regret in the slightest. I loved the FO in 1.0 and they still bring the pain in 2.0! Scorch with Fanatical, Optics, and Angled Deflectors is just mean. Even the humble Epsilon can be a pain to deal with. Super TIEs FTW.

They're great little ships - and surprisingly effective. What they aren't - and this is key - is 'swarmers' in the classic sense. The Empire's old-style TIE fighters have Howlrunner, Del Meeko, Iden Versio, and Valen Rudor, all of whom in different incarnations provide boosted efficiency by swarming multiple TIE fighters together.

The First Order doesn't have that.

The closest they get to a 'support' piece is Muse, and frankly - since her ability now only affects one ship per turn including herself - she's as well used either as a 'parking attendant' for a big ship or else given a pattern analyser and allowed to pretend she's a 36 point TIE defender.

The rest of the pilots are great, but don't play well with others. Using a 6 ship swarm of TIE/fo is using 6 independent little ships at once - because they've all got segnor's loops and blue turns can fly in a true 'swarm' rather than a 2 x 3 brick.

Their upgrades support this, too. Give a TIE/fo a pattern analyser and you've got mini-defenders (especially Muse, who not only gets her action but isn't even stressed and can chain segnor's loops indefinitely, making her one serious pain in the neck for an 'ace' to try and engage despite her Initiative 2), whilst give them advanced optics and you have a sort of 'dispersed howlrunner' that lets your ships fly independently and doesn't care what order you lose them in, whilst TN-3465 is terrifying if you build your squad correctly and your opponent isn't expecting her; she's much like the Empire's Ruthless upgrade, but much, much scarier because she's causing automatic criticals.

The TIE/fo are surprisingly good at killing enemy aces, too. Muse and Midnight are both superb for their cost in one-on-one duels. The trick is getting them there.

12 hours ago, CoffeeMinion said:

TIE/SF Fighter: I have three. I was caught off-guard by the success of the mild-mannered gunnerless front-back generic, but I can also attest that it works. Just a brawler of a ship that—yes—can really move!

This is probably the 'best' general-purpose ship the First Order have because it can be built three ways and it's good at all of them.

With no gunner and just front-and-back primaries, it's cheap enough, manoeuvrable enough and tough enough to 'work' as a medium fighter, despite the 2-dice primary, because it can reliably get multiple arcs on a target from various directions, and because combining "keep going, focus and use the back arc rather than k-turning" and advanced optics, and you can often do better with your 2-dice attack than something more X-wing-esque can do with its 3 dice.

It's a half-decent missile boat due to its ability to fire them backwards and the fact that it has a systems slot for the awesome Passive Sensors upgrade, meaning Initiative is completely taken out of the equation for target locks, and you can lock and rotate the turret immediately before firing, letting you respond to an outflanking ace and preventing wasting locks on overkill if several missile targets present themselves.

With a special forces gunner it's a decent heavy fighter with an Initiative 6 pilot who has a great ability.

There really are very few bad ways to use the TIE/sf and we're getting an extra pilot (Phasma) in the expansion packs.

12 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

There really are very few bad ways to use the TIE/sf and we're getting an extra pilot (Phasma) in the expansion packs.

Two new pilots, unless this is a typo:

• Captain Phasma (TIE/sf Fighter)
• Lieutenant LeHuse (TIE/sf Fighter)
• "Rush" (TIE/vn Silencer)

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/x-wing-second-edition/products/hotshots-and-aces-reinforcements-pack/

13 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

There really are very few bad ways to use the TIE/sf and we're getting an extra pilot (Phasma) in the expansion packs.

Really? I didn't see her listed under the 2.0 expansion pack....until @theBitterFig posted his reply after I saved mine... thx!

My two cents: I have the full 2.0 FO complement due to a great mate of mine gifting me the upgrade pack, so I'm in on making them work whether I want too or no. I love the Silencer chassis and dial, I just can't quite make them sing anywhere near the top chords they should be able to attain as of yet. The SFs are the bomb in a squad and the lack of your opponent having any target priority and their bow-tie and decent dial make them a real buzz-saw on the mat. FOs are fun and work great as you can space them out and create nice kill boxes without the LN range 1 leash. Upsilons are solid (OK, Tavson is) at a slow circling board control and there are a few decent crew that can create a positive for your Aces.

On 12/12/2019 at 3:10 PM, CoffeeMinion said:

Naboo Royal N-1 Starfighter: I have one. I really want to get this ship, but I don’t yet. Ric is a monster by reputation, but it gets to be way too hard to keep him going fast enough & pointed in the right direction to do what he needs to do.

I have spent a LOT of time with Ric. I still struggle with his time on target and being in the fray. I really don’t like him aside from he’s cheap if kept lean (I ran him with r2 Astro and predator at worlds). I’m really feeling like Child Anakin may be the hidden star here as an ordnance carrier, albeit expensive.

I want to like the FO. I really do. I feel like they struggle in a lot of settings. I’ve found some mixed results with them though - had good fortune with Kylo, Tavson, and backdraft.

I am in the same challenge as you, just with a different collection

23 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

If you'll take it as a compliment, I thought your other articles were more inspiring.

I appreciate the feedback! I’ll admit this one was a bit less focused, but I’d been sitting on it for a while, trying in vain to polish it. Decided it was time to kick this out the airlock and set my sights on the next one, which may hopefully prove to be more insightful.

And maybe I struggled more with writing about these two factions in particular because they’re at opposite ends of how much I “get” them. I.e., I totally get First Order; without wanting to be cocky, I feel like I could roll up with just about anything in the faction and at least put up a fight. Whereas Republic has a few ships that make sense to me by virtue of their straightforward simplicity, as well as some stuff that just doesn’t click with me at all yet. Expanding my views beyond “FO GOOD” and “REPUBLIC WEIRD” is challenging, and probably belies my need to get more games in with them.

1 hour ago, ScummyRebel said:

I have spent a LOT of time with Ric. I still struggle with his time on target and being in the fray. I really don’t like him aside from he’s cheap if kept lean (I ran him with r2 Astro and predator at worlds). I’m really feeling like Child Anakin may be the hidden star here as an ordnance carrier, albeit expensive.

I want to like the FO. I really do. I feel like they struggle in a lot of settings. I’ve found some mixed results with them though - had good fortune with Kylo, Tavson, and backdraft.

I am in the same challenge as you, just with a different collection

Best of fortune with your own challenge!

I’m gearing up to possibly put both Ric and Bananakin on the table tomorrow. (What?? I don’t have a problem, you have a problem!) And as I keep goofing around with N-1 builds, I feel like it’s super easy to get into diminishing returns with trying to build a decent, balanced list once they start creeping up above 50 points or so. That often means leaving slots on them unfilled, but it seems dangerous to overinvest in a 2-primary/2-evade chassis that can get deleted quickly and without doing much. Maybe the Bananaman will prove himself; I certainly hope as much. Meanwhile, I’m trying to choose upgrades to let Ric be unpredictably zippy, rather than maximizing his output per se.

14 minutes ago, CoffeeMinion said:

I appreciate the feedback! I’ll admit this one was a bit less focused, but I’d been sitting on it for a while, trying in vain to polish it. Decided it was time to kick this out the airlock and set my sights on the next one, which may hopefully prove to be more insightful.

And maybe I struggled more with writing about these two factions in particular because they’re at opposite ends of how much I “get” them. I.e., I totally get First Order; without wanting to be cocky, I feel like I could roll up with just about anything in the faction and at least put up a fight. Whereas Republic has a few ships that make sense to me by virtue of their straightforward simplicity, as well as some stuff that just doesn’t click with me at all yet. Expanding my views beyond “FO GOOD” and “REPUBLIC WEIRD” is challenging, and probably belies my need to get more games in with them.

Best of fortune with your own challenge!

I’m gearing up to possibly put both Ric and Bananakin on the table tomorrow. (What?? I don’t have a problem, you have a problem!) And as I keep goofing around with N-1 builds, I feel like it’s super easy to get into diminishing returns with trying to build a decent, balanced list once they start creeping up above 50 points or so. That often means leaving slots on them unfilled, but it seems dangerous to overinvest in a 2-primary/2-evade chassis that can get deleted quickly and without doing much. Maybe the Bananaman will prove himself; I certainly hope as much. Meanwhile, I’m trying to choose upgrades to let Ric be unpredictably zippy, rather than maximizing his output per se.

I think daredevil is the correct choice for Ric, or at least A correct choice. The time on target or ability to point the right way in a hurry is more important than being able to have focus and evade.

Good luck in your challenge! I’m going to knock out most of my Seppies in a single list next week. I’m struggling because I’ve got one tournament before the points change so I want some experience to do well enough on something, so I’m doing one game per week of practice and one game of flying new (As in not yet flown since worlds 2019) models.

I know from around 6-8 table games of Republic Triple Aces that Daredevil is NOT "the correct" answer. It is a very good answer, but not perfect:

Ric is only effectively overpowered when he actually gets reasonable mods. Surprise: 4 dice no focus from a boost, is average 2 hits, whereas 3dice F= 2.25. Soberin thought innit?
In that same vein, Ric becomes what I call a "one-action" ship, following the focus rule, that should be focus.

In 2.0 a lot of games go to time, and Ric of course is good at surviving with his evade and maybe an R2. It also means that bulk lists, like swarms, VCX, sinker swarm, really generally have surviving ships with a lot of health. In short: Ric's damage is generally insufficient unless he gets focus and the extra die. his defense is excellent. but that also causes people to avoid firing at him at all in favor of shooting other things.

Therefore, Daredevilling, boosting becomes only an emergency option, dropping to a wanted execution happen-rate to maybe 15-20%. Its still a great option, and having a shot is much better than none... but against certain lists, you will be climbing an uphill damage battle that you're not favored to win. Therefore, I'm again considering things like Predator or the evade=>focus astromech.

Republic is in a weird spot right now:

Like you said, it's hard to build a bad list... Even 8 GSTs would actually probably not be bad.

But, it's also hard to build a great list. There are no Vader/Soontir/Duchess, Boba/Guri, or the like.

This is more a symptom of having few ships, while also relying on regen

23 hours ago, SavouryRain said:

But, it's also hard to build a great list. There are no Vader/Soontir/Duchess, Boba/Guri, or the like.

I think triple jedi are at least as strong as vader/soontir/duchess, and certainly stronger than boba/guri.

Further progress:

I was able to get a game in yesterday where I purposely experimented with some Republic stuff that’s vexed me (and in the ARC’s case, just looked interesting). Rather than dwelling on the strangeness of the list itself, I put this forward for the sake of developing some further thoughts about the BTL-B and (especially) the N-1.

"Broadside" (36)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)

“Jag” (48)
C-3PO (8)

Anakin Skywalker (41)
Passive Sensors (3)
R4 Astromech (2)
Ion Torpedoes (6)

Ric Olié (42)
Outmaneuver (6)
R4 Astromech (2)
Total: 199

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

One of my personal guidelines here was trying to hold all of the ships at about 50 points each. Obviously this flexed a little, but I tried hard to hold that line, because I’ve seen how quickly all of these ships can turn into points sinks if you feel like you have to fill empty slots. And the more I think about it, the more I realize that high (theoretical) customizability is one of Republic’s “things.” There’s a lot that each ship could theoretically do, but you’re gonna have a bad time if you either over-generalize them, or just pigeonhole them wrong.

So I took @gadwag’s advice on how to think about Broadside to heart as I built these guys. I made it my goal to give them one job and the tools to do it, rather than to maximize them per se: Broadside for area denial, Anakin for setting up kill shots, Ric for pouncing on weakened prey, and Jag for batting cleanup. My decision to give R4s to the N-1s perhaps seems counterintuitive on the surface, but it makes almost their entire dial blue, which makes them a lot less predictable, and improves their odds of maintaining time on target. It makes the free evades less frequent, but it also gives you more options besides leaning on them.

Outmaneuver+R4 Ric was beautiful. Suddenly you’ve got a dial full of options that let you focus on positioning rather than GO SPEED RACER GO. On one turn I set up an absolutely brutal shot with a surprise 1 straight blue, which caught my opponent off guard, and pitted my three modded reds against zero greens. I did end up wishing I had a Fire-Control System, but that’s it—I think this has promise as an approach to the chassis.

Anakin’s super barrel roll powers proved very strong as well. I was bummed that I never managed to get off a torp shot, but it was usually because I was too close (or sometimes pointed out toward la-la land). As with Ric, R4 proved helpful for staying squirrelly; In the end I came to wish I’d have ditched the torps and just put Outmaneuver on him as well, because I certainly was talking Outmaneuver-able shots with him often enough.

Again, I think the thing with N-1s is to not rely on them to always go fast, and to keep them cheap—say around 50 points or so. They can go fast when they need to, and there are benefits to doing so, which is great! But making their whole existence revolve around that gives up a lot of flexibility and “passive” benefits that they could be taking advantage of. I’m going to have to give this R4 + Outmaneuver combo more testing, and try to work in FCS, because I think it absolutely plays to their strengths.

Oh, and the Y proved to be a nice and sometimes surprisingly speedy little irritant. Keeping him light and focused was perfect. Shooting at him wasn’t terribly worthwhile for my opponent either, except for when there wasn’t anything else to shoot. And even in that case, Jag helped serve as a deterrent to casual shots-of-opportunity.

On 12/14/2019 at 12:19 AM, Blail Blerg said:

I know from around 6-8 table games of Republic Triple Aces that Daredevil is NOT "the correct" answer. It is a very good answer, but not perfect:

While it does start to tip the scales at 50 points, I've found R2-C4 really makes Daredevil Ric sing. Effectively having a calculate token at my beck and call makes the red boost an easier choice as well as being a much less predictable target.

The kturn is noticeably absent on the ship. A good compromise. As otherwise it’s dial would be golden.

16 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

The kturn is noticeably absent on the ship. A good compromise. As otherwise it’s dial would be golden.

Or you can execute a 3 speed turn then do a hard turn boost with Daredevil and get much the same result but with a bonus evade token.

Nevermind, my brain translated "K turn" to "T roll"

12 minutes ago, Pa Weasley said:

Or you can execute a 3 speed turn then do a hard turn boost with Daredevil and get much the same result but with a bonus evade token.

Nevermind, my brain translated "K turn" to "T roll"

The 1 hard into daredevil is kinda close but still considerable lateral shift. Had some games where I wanted K turn

I don't think I've played a single game with the N-1 where I didn't wish it had a K Turn.

6 hours ago, CoffeeMinion said:

I made it my goal to give them one job and the tools to do it, rather than to maximize them per se:

Golden rule right here.

19 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

The kturn is noticeably absent on the ship. A good compromise. As otherwise it’s dial would be BROKEN.

Fixed IT for you there Blerg

12 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

I don't think I've played a single game with the N-1 where I didn't wish it had a K Turn.

"I made it my goal to give them one job and the tools to do it, rather than to maximise them per se:"

Golden rule right here.

Truth.

I haven't flown an N-1, but against it I have. Fairly easy to smoke 'em.

I can relate though: back in 1.0 I thought to myself, "self, what if we Imps had a ship with the punch, evade dice and shielding of a Defender, but it couldn't K-turn at all, but had all the turns on its dial and they were pretty much solid green?"

I don't regularly talk to myself. Not regularly.

...now where's that pint?