My brother, so far a Rebel player is thinking of dipping a toe in Swarm flying. And while we have an option to try some Tie Fighter swarms, he is looking into Separatists. Most recently this is what we, as in me telling him what I think is good and him nodding, came up with. Am curious what people think about it.

1. Darth Maul (Sith Infiltrator): General Grievous (Crew), DRK-1 Probe Droids (Device), TA-175 (Tactical Relay) total 80 points
2. Trade Federation Drone (Vulture-Class Droid Fighter): Grappling Struts (Configuration) total 20 points
3. Trade Federation Drone (Vulture-Class Droid Fighter): Grappling Struts (Configuration) total 20 points
4. Trade Federation Drone (Vulture-Class Droid Fighter): Grappling Struts (Configuration) total 20 points
5. Trade Federation Drone (Vulture-Class Droid Fighter): Grappling Struts (Configuration) total 20 points
6. Trade Federation Drone (Vulture-Class Droid Fighter): Grappling Struts (Configuration) total 20 points
7. Trade Federation Drone (Vulture-Class Droid Fighter): Grappling Struts (Configuration) total 20 points

YASB 2.0 link

Idea is, that Maul is a deadly mean piece of a ship, that can perform decent double taps with his Pilot Force Power. General Grievous offers some additional survivability and his Charge gets replenished when one of the Drones gets shot down, without any Range restrictions. TA-175 does require Maul to remain within Range 0-3 of his Drones though, granting them additional Calculate token, when one of them is being shot down.

Drones are there as cannon fodder for Grievous as well as TA-175, but also working as amazing blockers, area denial with Grappling Struts and just additional source of red dice to throw at the enemy.

Lastly you have the DRK-1 Probes to provide the entire squad with Target Locks and Calculate during the first engagement and hopefully for future ones as well.

With my fresh knowledge of the system, it seems decent enough on the paper to be competitive. You have lots of arcs and a semi Ace with potential double tap. Zero bid, because who needs that? Am'i right?

I would change the DRK-1 Probes for the shield upgrade.

Maul + Hate is very fun

Maul is excellent, but I think he needs one thing - PerCo, and can use another - Hate, and nothing else. Reason being, he has a focus for each of his shots and can thus conserve his force for continual double tapping, or emergency defense.

As for filling out everything else with a swarm? All sorts of directions you can go. I have nothing against the direction you went.

That being said, my Maul build is pricier. So either you have 6 naked vultures, or ditch one to fill back in some things, like Grievous, Kraken, Struts, or ESCs

47 minutes ago, Greebwahn said:

Maul is excellent, but I think he needs one thing - PerCo, and can use another - Hate, and nothing else. Reason being, he has a focus for each of his shots and can thus conserve his force for continual double tapping, or emergency defense.

As for filling out everything else with a swarm? All sorts of directions you can go. I have nothing against the direction you went.

That being said, my Maul build is pricier. So either you have 6 naked vultures, or ditch one to fill back in some things, like Grievous, Kraken, Struts, or ESCs

If you add PerCo, and drop a droid, you can upgrade the rest to Separatist Drones(with struts). 5 i3 ships could help initiative kill against opposing efficiency/swarm lists.

6 hours ago, Schanez said:

My brother, so far a Rebel player is thinking of dipping a toe in Swarm flying. And while we have an option to try some Tie Fighter swarms, he is looking into Separatists. Most recently this is what we, as in me telling him what I think is good and him nodding, came up with. Am curious what people think about it.

1. Darth Maul (Sith Infiltrator): General Grievous (Crew), DRK-1 Probe Droids (Device), TA-175 (Tactical Relay) total 80 points
2. Trade Federation Drone (Vulture-Class Droid Fighter): Grappling Struts (Configuration) total 20 points
3. Trade Federation Drone (Vulture-Class Droid Fighter): Grappling Struts (Configuration) total 20 points
4. Trade Federation Drone (Vulture-Class Droid Fighter): Grappling Struts (Configuration) total 20 points
5. Trade Federation Drone (Vulture-Class Droid Fighter): Grappling Struts (Configuration) total 20 points
6. Trade Federation Drone (Vulture-Class Droid Fighter): Grappling Struts (Configuration) total 20 points
7. Trade Federation Drone (Vulture-Class Droid Fighter): Grappling Struts (Configuration) total 20 points

YASB 2.0 link

Idea is, that Maul is a deadly mean piece of a ship, that can perform decent double taps with his Pilot Force Power. General Grievous offers some additional survivability and his Charge gets replenished when one of the Drones gets shot down, without any Range restrictions. TA-175 does require Maul to remain within Range 0-3 of his Drones though, granting them additional Calculate token, when one of them is being shot down.

Drones are there as cannon fodder for Grievous as well as TA-175, but also working as amazing blockers, area denial with Grappling Struts and just additional source of red dice to throw at the enemy.

Lastly you have the DRK-1 Probes to provide the entire squad with Target Locks and Calculate during the first engagement and hopefully for future ones as well.

With my fresh knowledge of the system, it seems decent enough on the paper to be competitive. You have lots of arcs and a semi Ace with potential double tap. Zero bid, because who needs that? Am'i right?

Seems fine. Id probably get sense on Maul versus Probe droids. Will make ace hunting 100% easier. Removing two grappling struts gives Maul tractor beam as well. I flew Maul, Chertek, 4 vultures and Maul had tractor beam and it was crucial in many matchups, especially versus rebel beef with 1 or 2 agility ships. Toss those Braylens and Ten Numbs around onto rocks. Fun Times. Preventing a 3 dice ship from firing is huge for you 3 hull 2 agility drones

Regarding Maul and the choices I made:

• Sense is amazing and I was seriously considering it. Although if I were to really make a choice, I'd go for Hate. My problem with both, is that they are expensive and I am already spread thin for points.
• Kraken vs TA-175 was quite simple. Kraken allows me to carry over up to three Calculates. TA-175 gives me five Calculates with first drone down, then four and so on. Considering Grievous works of losing ships, I found it more useful. Also 5 points cheaper.
• DRK-1 Probe Droids sounded like a decent first engagement buff. It allows each drone to engage with Lock and Calculate. Alternatively I could drop it for Kraken and then have three drones with two Calculates. But I feel Lock is more useful, especially with the new setup listed below.
• Tractor Beam seems like a fun idea, but again... Lacking points for it.

With all of your insights combined... I decided to tinker with the list by dropping one drone. Things I came up with, were as follows:

• Equip two Drones with Discord Missiles and two with Concussion Missiles. Makes the Drones a little bit more dangerous, resulting in hopefully more focus on them, over Maul.
• Equip Maul with Perceptive Copilot and Hate. If I drop all Grappling Struts, I could fill two Drones with Discord Missiles. But this set up puts a lot of points on Maul, am somewhat afraid people will just hard focus him.

1 hour ago, Schanez said:

Regarding Maul and the choices I made:

• Sense is amazing and I was seriously considering it. Although if I were to really make a choice, I'd go for Hate. My problem with both, is that they are expensive and I am already spread thin for points.
• Kraken vs TA-175 was quite simple. Kraken allows me to carry over up to three Calculates. TA-175 gives me five Calculates with first drone down, then four and so on. Considering Grievous works of losing ships, I found it more useful. Also 5 points cheaper.
• DRK-1 Probe Droids sounded like a decent first engagement buff. It allows each drone to engage with Lock and Calculate. Alternatively I could drop it for Kraken and then have three drones with two Calculates. But I feel Lock is more useful, especially with the new setup listed below.
• Tractor Beam seems like a fun idea, but again... Lacking points for it.

With all of your insights combined... I decided to tinker with the list by dropping one drone. Things I came up with, were as follows:

• Equip two Drones with Discord Missiles and two with Concussion Missiles. Makes the Drones a little bit more dangerous, resulting in hopefully more focus on them, over Maul.
• Equip Maul with Perceptive Copilot and Hate. If I drop all Grappling Struts, I could fill two Drones with Discord Missiles. But this set up puts a lot of points on Maul, am somewhat afraid people will just hard focus him.

A few thoughts here, as well - speaking as a Separatist player:

1) Drones with missiles that require Locks are less dangerous than drones with missiles that don't (i.e. Energy Shell Charges). You have to waste a turn getting the lock, and it's likely that your Concussion-equipped drones are going to die before they get a chance to use them (especially since your opponent's ships have to have damage cards to flip for them to be fully effective, and that's not going to happen until mid- to late-game).

As an aside to this first point, remember that in order for Maul to launch the DRKs, he has to be exposed for a bit. You'd want to fly him up to deliver the DRKs early and then try to find a good place to engage from.

2) Investing a little more in Maul is worth it. I'd combine your original build (minus the DRKs) with the suggested PerCo build to make Maul more efficient. Yes, he'll be hard focused - you've got to accept that. He's the biggest threat. However, accepting that allows you to play the swarm side of the list more effectively.

The Maul build would be PerCo, Grievous, Tractor Beam, Sense, TA-175, for 90 points. Cutting your Vultures down by one and keeping them at Initiative 1 gives you 5 Struts-equipped Vultures and 10 points worth of ordnance to use (with current points that could be two ESCs, a Discord and a Concussion, two Clusters, etc. - unless you want a bid). However, you're probably, realistically, not going to be using all Struts, all the time unless your game plan is to entrench all your Vultures on rocks, which makes Maul that much more of an obvious target. So I'd probably cut Struts on two and equip either those two or two others with Concussion Missiles if you really want to use them. That way you can emplace your Concussion launchers on rocks where they'll be able to use the missiles more effectively and still get the defensive bonuses from terrain.

Tractor Beam on Maul allows you to tractor one ship, and then primary attack a different ship with his ability. The only time you can double-tap the same target is if your first attack misses. Having the ability to mess with one ship's positioning and then fire at another is powerful.

3) Discord Missiles are not as effective as you might hope. You can position them effectively, but you'll need to burn a Calculate to do it, which means that the Vulture you launch them from needs to be expendable, in order to trigger your TA-175. I've played several games with Discords, in various configurations, and only two games have seen any impactful use of the Buzz Droids. It's better if you're going to be facing less maneuverable ships, since they are more likely to run into them. The Droids' upside is that they don't get fired until the beginning of Engagement, so if you've got a ship trapped by your swarm through blocks or positioned to prevent your opponent's maneuvers next turn, it's more likely you'll land them where they can be effective. They're particularly valuable when you've already landed several attacks on a ship, so their Crit potential is maximized.

As an example, this is what I just quickly built from the thoughts in this thread.

Sith Infiltrator - •Darth Maul - 90
•Darth Maul - Sith Assassin (67)
Tractor Beam (2)
Perceptive Copilot (8)
•General Grievous (3)
Sense (5)
•TA-175 (5)

Vulture -class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 20
Trade Federation Drone - (19)
Grappling Struts (Closed) (1)

Vulture -class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 26
Trade Federation Drone - (19)
Concussion Missiles (6)
Grappling Struts (Closed) (1)

Vulture -class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 24
Trade Federation Drone - (19)
•••Discord Missiles (4)
Grappling Struts (Closed) (1)

Vulture -class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 20
Trade Federation Drone - (19)
Grappling Struts (Closed) (1)

Vulture -class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 20
Trade Federation Drone - (19)
Grappling Struts (Closed) (1)

Total: 200/200

1 hour ago, feltipern1 said:

A few thoughts here, as well - speaking as a Separatist player:

(...)

Hmmm... Thanks for the insight. I honestly thought, that dropping in End Phase with a 3 Bank followed with a 2 Bank in System Phase would be enough lead to allow for a set up round for the Drones. I am still willing to give it a try... But need to find someone with the ships in my group. Maybe ...

• Maul: Perceptive Copilot, General Grevious, TA-175, DRK-1 Probe Droids, Tractor Beam
• Trade Federation Drone: Energy-Shell Charges
• Trade Federation Drone: Energy-Shell Charges
• Trade Federation Drone: Energy-Shell Charges
• Trade Federation Drone
• Trade Federation Drone

36 minutes ago, Schanez said:

Hmmm... Thanks for the insight. I honestly thought, that dropping in End Phase with a 3 Bank followed with a 2 Bank in System Phase would be enough lead to allow for a set up round for the Drones. I am still willing to give it a try... But need to find someone with the ships in my group. Maybe ...

• Maul: Perceptive Copilot, General Grevious, TA-175, DRK-1 Probe Droids, Tractor Beam
• Trade Federation Drone: Energy-Shell Charges
• Trade Federation Drone: Energy-Shell Charges
• Trade Federation Drone: Energy-Shell Charges
• Trade Federation Drone
• Trade Federation Drone

Sometimes it is - if your opponent is set up so that you can get your Vultures into place quickly enough to take advantage of the Locks. I enjoy using the DRKs, but I find that they quickly become board clutter after the first engagement.

With that setup, you probably wouldn't need the DRKs anyway, unless you really want fully-modded shots from the Vultures who've managed to get the Locks. ESCs don't require them to be used.

12 minutes ago, feltipern1 said:

Sometimes it is - if your opponent is set up so that you can get your Vultures into place quickly enough to take advantage of the Locks. I enjoy using the DRKs, but I find that they quickly become board clutter after the first engagement.

With that setup, you probably wouldn't need the DRKs anyway, unless you really want fully-modded shots from the Vultures who've managed to get the Locks. ESCs don't require them to be used.

You see... If I don't have a Lock on the target, my four attack dice tend to roll a blank, blank, focus, hit. So... I like to take Locks. Then they roll a hit, hit, hit, crit without any rerolls.

15 minutes ago, Schanez said:

You see... If I don't have a Lock on the target, my four attack dice tend to roll a blank, blank, focus, hit. So... I like to take Locks. Then they roll a hit, hit, hit, crit without any rerolls.

Same thing when I decide not to spend focus on defense so I can use it for my attack.