First Order Sympathizers (60)
Strategic Commander (10)
Comms Team (8)
Boosted Scanners (8)

Kylo Ren (76)
Supernatural Reflexes (24)
First Order Elite (4)

“Muse” (31)
Crack Shot (1)

TN-3465 (29)

“Null” (31)

“Longshot” (32)
Crack Shot (1)

Zeta Squadron Pilot (27)

Omega Squadron Expert (34)
Fanatical (2)
Special Forces Gunner (10)
Fire-Control System (2)

Omega Squadron Expert (34)
Fanatical (2)
Special Forces Gunner (10)
Fire-Control System (2)

“Recoil” (58)
Predator (2)
Veteran Wing Leader (2)
Total: 500

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Why does Recoil have Wing Leader? He can only lead other Silencers, and Kylo has his own wing.

I really feel like Quickdraw as a wing leader for the two SFs might be nice, since shunting damage works so well with his ability and Fanatical wingates and it makes it easy for them to get locks for their FCSes, but we have to see. Firepower in epic being so intense, Fanatical might never come into play... you might just lose ships outright.

I love Muse as a wingmate for Kylo. That is a gorgeous combo. I'm not sure I'm sold on Supernatural for wing leaders, since wingmates block your barrel rolls, so you have only the boosts available.

My take on Kylo as First Order Elite, 1 wing with INI 5 and 2 with INI 6, no huge ship:

Quote

Kylo Ren (76)
Hate (3)
Advanced Optics (4)
First Order Elite (4)

Ship total: 87 Half Points: 44 Threshold: 3

Omega Squadron Ace (29)
Fanatical (2)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 35 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 2

Omega Squadron Ace (29)
Fanatical (2)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 35 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 2

"Midnight" (43)
Fanatical (2)
Advanced Optics (4)
Veteran Wing Leader (2)

Ship total: 51 Half Points: 26 Threshold: 2

"Scorch" (34)
Fanatical (2)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 40 Half Points: 20 Threshold: 2

"Longshot" (32)
Fanatical (2)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 38 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 2

"Muse" (31)
Fanatical (2)
Advanced Optics (4)
Veteran Wing Leader (2)

Ship total: 39 Half Points: 20 Threshold: 2

"Quickdraw" (45)
Fanatical (2)
Advanced Optics (4)
Veteran Wing Leader (2)

Ship total: 53 Half Points: 27 Threshold: 3

Omega Squadron Expert (34)
Fanatical (2)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 40 Half Points: 20 Threshold: 3

Omega Squadron Expert (34)
Fanatical (2)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 40 Half Points: 20 Threshold: 3

Omega Squadron Expert (34)
Fanatical (2)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 40 Half Points: 20 Threshold: 3


Total: 498

21 hours ago, ChahDresh said:

I really feel like Quickdraw as a wing leader for the two SFs might be nice, since shunting damage works so well with his ability and Fanatical wingates and it makes it easy for them to get locks for their FCSes, but we have to see. Firepower in epic being so intense, Fanatical might never come into play... you might just lose ships outright.

Even if it results in reliably drawing fire off the wing leader, it's probably justified.

If taking first order elite wingmen for Kylo, I'd definitely reach for fanatical TIE/fo. By comparison, "don't Shoot me" Null seems like a bad pick.

On ‎12‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 2:50 PM, Stefan said:

First Order Sympathizers (60)
Strategic Commander (10)
Comms Team (8)
Boosted Scanners (8)

I don't know. I've got no feel for big ships yet.

On ‎12‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 2:50 PM, Stefan said:

Kylo Ren (76)
Supernatural Reflexes (24)
First Order Elite (4)

“Muse” (31)
Crack Shot (1)

TN-3465 (29)

“Null” (31)

“Longshot” (32)
Crack Shot (1)

Zeta Squadron Pilot (27)

Supernatural Reflexes Kylo is a big investment, so it's worth ensuring he has as big a wing as possible to haul around behind him and keep him alive in the inevitable crossfire as long as possible.

Muse is not a bad investment in case you want to pull a red move or use autothrusters after instead of before moving, but frankly I'd trade the others for Fanatical Omegas.

On ‎12‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 2:50 PM, Stefan said:

Omega Squadron Expert (34)
Fanatical (2)
Special Forces Gunner (10)
Fire-Control System (2)

Omega Squadron Expert (34)
Fanatical (2)
Special Forces Gunner (10)
Fire-Control System (2)

“Recoil” (58)
Predator (2)
Veteran Wing Leader (2)
Total: 500

As noted, needs First Order Elite. I'd rather take Quickdraw too.

One nice thought is that the wingmen don't need gunners - since you activate at quickdraw's initiative, getting target locks is less of an issue, so using missiles as a substitute should work perfectly well.

So, my suggestion for the fighter element, with the same large ship:

• Kylo Ren
  • Supernatural Reflexes
  • Pattern Analyser
  • First Order Elite
• Muse
  • Fanatical
• Omega Squadron Ace x 4
  • Fanatical

• Quickdraw
  • Fanatical
  • Fire Control System
  • Special Forces Gunner
  • Veteran Wing Leader
• Omega Squadron Expert
  • Fanatical
  • Fire Control System
  • Cluster Missiles
• Omega Squadron Expert
  • Fanatical
  • Fire Control System
  • Cluster Missiles

I reworked it. Lost Supernatural, because the point about the Barrel Roll is absolutely right. What do you think now?

First Order Sympathizers (60)
Strategic Commander (10)
Ion Cannon Battery (6)
Captain Phasma (5)
Comms Team (8)
Boosted Scanners (8)
Optimized Power Core (6)

Kylo Ren (76)
Hate (3)
Pattern Analyzer (5)
First Order Elite (4)

“Muse” (31)
Fanatical (2)

Omega Squadron Ace (29)
Fanatical (2)

Omega Squadron Ace (29)
Fanatical (2)

Omega Squadron Ace (29)
Fanatical (2)

Omega Squadron Ace (29)
Fanatical (2)

“Quickdraw” (45)
Fanatical (2)
Pattern Analyzer (5)
Special Forces Gunner (10)
Fire-Control System (2)
Veteran Wing Leader (2)

Omega Squadron Expert (34)
Fanatical (2)
Cluster Missiles (5)
Fire-Control System (2)

Omega Squadron Expert (34)
Fanatical (2)
Cluster Missiles (5)
Fire-Control System (2)
Total: 500

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Looks good.

You can make arguments about specific missile types (cluster/ion/homing/concussion) on the special forces TIEs, but finding the one you prefer will be a matter of practice.

If you think concussions might be good, you can always dump off hate in favour of them - the Omega Squadron Experts attack last, so in theory they can put two concussion missiles into a cluster of enemy ships that have been shot up by the TIE/fo and your aces to flip many, many damage cards. It provides a nice threat to an ace who's too casual about slope-shouldering too many damage cards onto their wingmen.

Homing missiles are a good way of landing damage on the ace themselves - they're a dirt cheap 4-dice attack, and if your opponent uses the 'take one damage to make them go away' option, then they can't use Veteran Wing Leader to redirect it because the damage isn't being inflicted by a dice result.

Finally, cluster missiles remain a good general-purpose option. With Quickdraw leading the wing, getting locks shouldn't be a problem, but cluster missiles do work at range 1, where Quickdraw herself (who'll be using primary weapons) is at her most effective. Plus it gives you the largest 'bin' of ammunition (good since you can't reload) and on an epic board, multiple targets at range 1 of one another are common and there are plenty of agility 0 targets you can realistically fire unmodified cluster shots at with a reasonable expectation of achieving something.

Flew this today. The Gozanti was a point sink; I should make it much leaner or get rid of it entirely in this setup. Quickdraw and colleagues destroyed an X-Wing wing utterly, while Kylo and his TIE/fo wing just murdered a CR90 in three rounds of concentrated fire, while the CR90 didn't even manage to kill the Gozanti (admitedly, the Gozanti Initiative-killing it with the Ion Cannon was due to a good deal of luck and flying mistakes by the opponent, but still). I think the TIE/sf want Pattern Analyzers...

Did this now:

First Order Sympathizers (60)
Ion Cannon Battery (6)
Comms Team (8)
Boosted Scanners (8)

Kylo Ren (76)
Sense (5)
Pattern Analyzer (5)
First Order Elite (4)

“Muse” (31)
Fanatical (2)

Omega Squadron Ace (29)
Fanatical (2)

Omega Squadron Ace (29)
Fanatical (2)

Omega Squadron Ace (29)
Fanatical (2)

Omega Squadron Ace (29)
Fanatical (2)

“Quickdraw” (45)
Fanatical (2)
Pattern Analyzer (5)
Special Forces Gunner (10)
Fire-Control System (2)
Shield Upgrade (6)
Veteran Wing Leader (2)

Omega Squadron Expert (34)
Fanatical (2)
Pattern Analyzer (5)
Cluster Missiles (5)
Fire-Control System (2)

Omega Squadron Expert (34)
Fanatical (2)
Pattern Analyzer (5)
Cluster Missiles (5)
Fire-Control System (2)
Total: 497

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

I know people don't rate it, but a Wing of Epsilon Squadron Tie Fighters with Advanced Optics is pretty good. Most people won't say it's worth the points, but I've found it to definitely be worth it. They fire last and will know if they need their Focus tokens or not. It really does improve the ability of the Tie Fighters to actually push damage through, as well. The math:

Defender has 0 Agility

• 0% - zero hits
• 18% - one hit
• 81% - two hits

Defender has 1 Agility

• 7% - zero hits
• 42% - one hit
• 50% - two hits

Defender has 2 Agility

• 22% - zero hits
• 45% - one hit
• 31% - two hits

Defender has 3 Agility

• 39% - zero hits
• 40% - one hit
• 19% - two hits

That is a lot of reliable hits to push through on a concentrated target. Even a Jedi that gets in arc will run out of tokens, force, and luck.

I have found that often it's easier to just take the cheap guys with Adv Optics than named Tie Pilots in your Wing. Then again, give the named guys Adv Optics, too!

Stefan, the way you have your list displayed it appears you have 5 TIE/FOs as wingmates for Kylo. You might want to re-read First Order Elite.

AKA Your posey is too big. Elite only allows 2-3 Wingmates.

It not only appears this way. ****, didn't see that.

On 12/30/2019 at 6:11 PM, heychadwick said:

I know people don't rate it, but a Wing of Epsilon Squadron Tie Fighters with Advanced Optics is pretty good. Most people won't say it's worth the points, but I've found it to definitely be worth it. They fire last and will know if they need their Focus tokens or not. It really does improve the ability of the Tie Fighters to actually push damage through, as well.

Theorycrafting with a TIE/fo swarm with AO:

Lieutenant Rivas (27)
Advanced Optics (4)
Veteran Wing Leader (2)

Epsilon Squadron Cadet (25)
Advanced Optics (4)

Epsilon Squadron Cadet (25)
Advanced Optics (4)

Epsilon Squadron Cadet (25)
Advanced Optics (4)

Epsilon Squadron Cadet (25)
Advanced Optics (4)

Epsilon Squadron Cadet (25)
Advanced Optics (4)

First Order Sympathizers (60)
Targeting Battery (6)
Captain Phasma (5)
Comms Team (8)
Boosted Scanners (8)

Kylo Ren (76)
Pattern Analyzer (5)
First Order Elite (4)

Omega Squadron Expert (34)
Fanatical (2)
Advanced Optics (4)
Special Forces Gunner (10)

Omega Squadron Expert (34)
Fanatical (2)
Advanced Optics (4)
Special Forces Gunner (10)

Omega Squadron Expert (34)
Fanatical (2)
Advanced Optics (4)
Special Forces Gunner (10)
Total: 500

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Interestingly enough General Hux (costs 1 energy for the Gozanti and all targets get stressed) seems not really better in comparison to the Comms Team (costs 2 energy and no drawbacks for targets).

Hux isn't really for Epic, I feel. It's like Ciena Ree or Moff Jerjerrod. Too much downside, too little upside.

I like your list, but I'm unsure of Null as wing leader. Maybe the swarm actually wants to fly first....?

22 minutes ago, Stefan said:

Maybe the swarm actually wants to fly first....?

Hm, maybe. That would allow Lt Rivas as Wing Leader and give me at least 1 point for that Targeting Battery.

I also totally forgot Wing Leader on Null so there go the other 2.

If anyone gets to try out Adv Optics, I would like to hear what they think. I found them pretty good, especially late in the round when everyone else has gone. You can see who needs to get hit and really push some damage through.

On 1/16/2020 at 12:18 PM, heychadwick said:

If anyone gets to try out Adv Optics, I would like to hear what they think. I found them pretty good, especially late in the round when everyone else has gone. You can see who needs to get hit and really push some damage through.

I've used it a bit. Can't spam it like I can in standard because I only have 5 copies (yeah I should proxy, blah blah). Anyway, one of my go-to squads is Kylo Ren + 4 TIE/fo all with Advanced Optics. I'm a huge fan of it. I should drop that into an Epic squad and use another 200 points for a Raider and fill out the last 100 with Tavson and something else. Or if it's a 300 point match I can just use a Gozanti to launch the TIEs.

I agree that it's loads better on low-initiative ships, but Kylo loves it because he can mod with Force + Optics which is very accurate.