The Andor & Versio preview makes it clear that they're hard plastic. They also both come with multiple weapon options and Versio has two heads. If this is a sign that the hard plastic kits will have increasing flexibility and customisation potential, I've decided I'm all for it. Now I just want a customisable shore trooper commander.

1 hour ago, Achinadav said:

The Andor & Versio preview makes it clear that they're hard plastic. They also both come with multiple weapon options and Versio has two heads. If this is a sign that the hard plastic kits will have increasing flexibility and customisation potential, I've decided I'm all for it. Now I just want a customisable shore trooper commander.

Bossk, Sabine, and Rex were all released in soft plastic. Sabine and Bossk have multiple weapons, Sabine and Rex had multiple heads, all of which run contrary to your argument, and speaks more to a change in design philosophy than changing material.

Iden's tiny droid would be tough to do in that garbage restic crap.

Hail our polystyrene overlords.

4 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Such as? Miniature wargaming is not exactly the cheapest hobby in existence. With Legion at least you get all the bodies you need to represent all of the different weapons options that are included in the box.

Well I can go 2 ways.. on one hand there is Imperial Assault which I really loved and was heartbroken about when FFG decided to pretty much dump it and stomp on it a few times. At first I never wanted to start playing legion because of that. But in the end I did fall for it, and left IA behind. On the other hand, and here I'm going to say something not in line with my feelings about Legion, but Marvel Crisis Protocol is probably one. Yes it has hard plastic and is even more expensive, but at this moment there are still so many less units and that will probably stay that way. Unlike many I don't really play legion for the hobby part of it. I like painting, but only single units. As soon as it becomes a production line I'm done. I really disliked putting Marvel CP together (which stopped me from even thinking about clones), but now it will only be one or 2 units. I feel like for legion I will be in production mode forever. So do I have anything against hard plastic perse? No, but not halfway through the game and not with so many units. That was not what I bought into and I dont feel I get extra benefits, while I do get more work and more expenses

I have not seen the Sabine and Rex models but I do have the Bossk one and it has zero customization besides the 2 options. The parts fit into the slots with no posability options whatsoever without hacking into the soft plastic which any modeler will tell you is a nightmare.

Not to put anyone down because they prefer working with soft plastic. It is a preference. The simple fact that cannot be denied is that the hard plastic offers a LOT more options and ability to customize and pose in a much wider variety of ways. The question is, do you have the skill to do so? Do you have the time to do so? Do you want to do so (some are content with generic poses and models while others dont care what the models looklike being more worried about just playing the game and not as worried about the modeling part treating it as just a game instead of a hobby.

Just because you prefer the soft plastics for whatever reason is no need to be dishonest about the qualities of the hard.

Sigidi presents a perfectly presentation of his views and why he/she does not like the hard plastics. Many do indeed play it as a game and are just not as interested in the artistic part which can make miniature wargaming a hobby. Soft plastic more for the gamers, hard for the hobbiest. I WISH I had more time, bought the game purely for the hobby aspect (have yet to play a single game).

@EVIL INC so far the hard plastic models have shown no further out of the box "customization" options than Bossk (weapon or head swaps).

@sigidi Fair points, which is part of the reason I asked for further elaboration. I will point out that any army miniature game ends up a bit assembly line sooner or later, especially when compared to skirmish miniature games like Crisis Protocol. The material being used doesn't particularly change that the miniatures are in multiple parts that have to be glued together, the droid army is just more fiddly owing to the thin limbs.

26 minutes ago, EVIL INC said:

I have not seen the Sabine and Rex models but I do have the Bossk one and it has zero customization besides the 2 options. The parts fit into the slots with no posability options whatsoever without hacking into the soft plastic which any modeler will tell you is a nightmare.

I adjusted his pose a bit by smoothing the peg so I could rotate it. It's really not any worse than other materials. A pair of clippers goes a long way.

Luckily for the modelers, the new hard plastics offer a wide variety of poses and options that are not available with models like bossk. Clippers do go a long way. As does magnets and dremils and spare parts from other games and experience (all of which are easier and safer to use on hard plastics).

Side note, just saw the new commanders out. Will likely be getting Cassian and his buddy. that droid was a highlight of the movie for me.

For me, I was able to make the B1s mostly unique via putting arms on different bodies, as well as toying with head positions.

The new expansions seem to be really trying to increase variety, and I would expect more going forward

14 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

so far the hard plastic models have shown no further out of the box "customization" options than Bossk (weapon or head swaps).

I don't think that statement is accurate. On one hand, our sample size consists soley of the B1s, so it's hard to judge what the standard will be moving forward. On the other hand, the B1s allowed infinitely more customization than weapon or head swaps with a minimal of effort.

3 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

I don't think that statement is accurate. On one hand, our sample size consists soley of the B1s, so it's hard to judge what the standard will be moving forward. On the other hand, the B1s allowed infinitely more customization than weapon or head swaps with a minimal of effort.

I was referring to the announcement articles, where they talk about the different options.

Just now, Caimheul1313 said:

I was referring to the announcement articles, where they talk about the different options.

And I don't think that's a good way of judging, personally. We know that, for instance, the Phase IIs will have the option of having the mortar slung or deployed, with a DC-15A being carried or not. Until we actually get the sprues, however, that's not a lot of info to go off of. If they're giving us two mortars, one slung and one deployed, with another set of arms carrying the DC-15A and then the weapon by itself, it's a big improvement over what we have now. If they're not, and only offering this weapon or this weapon, head or no, then we're still in the same boat as before, but now with corps units.

55 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

And I don't think that's a good way of judging, personally. We know that, for instance, the Phase IIs will have the option of having the mortar slung or deployed, with a DC-15A being carried or not. Until we actually get the sprues, however, that's not a lot of info to go off of. If they're giving us two mortars, one slung and one deployed, with another set of arms carrying the DC-15A and then the weapon by itself, it's a big improvement over what we have now. If they're not, and only offering this weapon or this weapon, head or no, then we're still in the same boat as before, but now with corps units.

It's hardly ideal, but it is what we have until stuff gets released. It will be most advantageous in my opinion to compare the upgrade packs with the next set of CW corps units (primarily the P2 clones since it's closest to a 1:1). Both should have been packaged/designed with a similar design philosophy. I kind of wish they highlighted the different weapon options for the corps units in their announcement like they do with the Commander/Operatives.

I could see both the slung and deployed mortar using the same weapon body, so we can only easily make one mortar miniature out of each kit.

FFG should stick with PVC if they can’t do hard plastic well. GW models are increasingly very dynamic but also easy to build. If I never build clone wars droids out of the starter Again, I will be happy.

Meanwhile I'm just over here waiting until they do hard plastics to jump in.

My three conditions were:

• Points adjustments

• Skirmish mode

• Hard plastics

They already knocked 1 and 2 out of the park, still waiting on 3. Once they redo the OT core in hard plastic I'm in. Just waiting till then.

On 12/13/2019 at 6:27 PM, ClassicalMoser said:

Meanwhile I'm just over here waiting until they do hard plastics to jump in.

My three conditions were:

• Points adjustments

• Skirmish mode

• Hard plastics

They already knocked 1 and 2 out of the park, still waiting on 3. Once they redo the OT core in hard plastic I'm in. Just waiting till then.

Hard plastics ARE easier to work with and offer a MUCH wider tage of options. Of course, as we see, many less experienced gamers/modelers do not really know how to work with them or get the best use out of them. My issue on them is cost. They are more expensive. As you dont need to build large armies in this game, I personally dont find that to be big enough of an issue to fuss over.I'd be happy to see all models move to that to make it easier for assembly and conversion.

On the points, I would like to see it go the way of x-wing and have a living document that can be adjusted on paper without having to worry about it being on the cards. Would allow greater flexibility for tweaking and updating.

12 hours ago, EVIL INC said:

Hard plastics ARE easier to work with and offer a MUCH wider tage of options.

It really, really depends. A lot of the latest GW stuff has zero options and goes together in a way that doesn't even allow for any real conversions. True even of something like Crisis Protocol, which likely shares a lot of production with FFG under the Asmodee umbrella. I modded those figures quite a bit, but doing so involved essentially cutting and sculpting some pretty large chunks of the model in a way I have to for metal or pvc or resin or anything really.

13 hours ago, EVIL INC said:

On the points, I would like to see it go the way of x-wing and have a living document that can be adjusted on paper without having to worry about it being on the cards. Would allow greater flexibility for tweaking and updating.

Very much so. I didn't think the switch over to online points would be as useful as it was, but it has been such a good thing for the game.

1 hour ago, LunarSol said:

It really, really depends. A lot of the latest GW stuff has zero options and goes together in a way that doesn't even allow for any real conversions.

True, though I think GW is prioritizing detail over customization in their kits; it shows in the 8th ed rules as well, with limited in-unit options compared to older editions. I still prefer hard plastic to soft.

1 minute ago, Ikka said:

Very much so. I didn't think the switch over to online points would be as useful as it was, but it has been such a good thing for the game.

True, though I think GW is prioritizing detail over customization in their kits; it shows in the 8th ed rules as well, with limited in-unit options compared to older editions. I still prefer hard plastic to soft.

Exactly. My point is its not a function of the material as much as the design of the the kit itself. You often don't see options in spin cast stuff like resin or pewter and the like because their casting methods don't really have empty space in the mold to fill, but sprue plastic still requires the kit be made with options in mind. Honestly, one of the most poseable kits I've worked with is PP's PVC warjacks and that's simply because they were made with ball socket shoulders that let you pose the arms very freely.

All that said, I still mostly prefer sprue plastic over the rest. I just don't see it as the ultimate material its often treated as. In many ways I prefer resin with some pewter parts for small details. Even then, its all in the skill and experience of the manufacturer. PP's resins are hands down the best out there I've worked with. Likewise, I get why people think so highly of sprues if their experience comes from the gw stuff. That company has a mastery of that material you just do not find anywhere else.

12 minutes ago, LunarSol said:

That company has a mastery of that material you just do not find anywhere else.

They do. Much as I hate to admit it, a lot of it can be credited to the Kirby CEO years where he viewed GW as a specialty model company rather than a games company.

I will say my preference is mainly due to ease of customization- I find the hard plastic easier to cut/model with than soft plastic and metal, while being less brittle than resin.

3 hours ago, Ikka said:

They do. Much as I hate to admit it, a lot of it can be credited to the Kirby CEO years where he viewed GW as a specialty model company rather than a games company.

I will say my preference is mainly due to ease of customization- I find the hard plastic easier to cut/model with than soft plastic and metal, while being less brittle than resin.

Exactly. It is that ease of working with it that helps add to it's having more variety than soft plastic. Both hard and soft can be worked with to customize and make your own variety but the hard just offers so much much in that regard.

****, I remember with the old BT01s where folks were cutting and reattaching parts and filling in so that they could model the guys laying on their bellys and using sprue to make missile launchers. Heck, you can even grind up sprue to make your own rubble terrain. There is just no comparison.

BUT.... it comes at the cost of a higher price tag and I can totally understand why some would not want to go that route because they just are not in it for the hobby aspect or are short on funds. They just need to come out and say those are the reasons (as some have) instead of arguing the soft plastic is just as good for the hobby aspect because when they do that, they undermine their own credibility.