Wasn't she actually some sort of prophesied saviour in the Burning Sands in the other timeline?

5 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Wasn't she actually some sort of prophesied saviour in the Burning Sands in the other timeline?

I was never very deep on the LBS lore but you're probably thinking of Shosuro Tage.

Asami just kinda disappeared from the story.

3 hours ago, Suzume Chikahisa said:

I was never very deep on the LBS lore but you're probably thinking of Shosuro Tage.

Asami just kinda disappeared from the story.

Yes, you're right.

On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 9:20 PM, Ishi Tonu said:

Seriously though, I think there have been some speculations from the fictions that Daisetsu's birth mother may have actually been someone other than the empress. And if it hasn't been speculated upon then consider me doing that now.

Based on Courts of Stone, if anyone other than the Empress a strongly-hinted-at possible candidate is Kakita Ryoku, Kachiko's predecessor as Imperial Advisor.

If people wanted a non-shujenga Phoenix, then there's one floating around very close to the current storyline; Tsume no Doji Itsuyo, despite her name, and the fact that she's a Crane Vassal Family Daimyo, is a Shiba bushi who proved quite the duellist. See Wedding At Kyotei Castle for details.

I don't think it would feel very satisfying to have clans represented by people who aren't members of those clans. L5R pushes the approach where marrying out of your clan means you now belong to your new family (rather than, say, married women keeping their original family names, which has also existed historically), so an Imperial whose mother was a Crane or a Crane who was born a Shiba isn't really going to feel like those individuals are carrying the banner of their ancestral origins.

So I did a bit of counting on the Imperial Census spreadsheet I have and these are the most story-involved 'little guys' per clan (where little guy means not Champion, heir or Daimyo). I've underlined my favourite options

Crab: Hiruma Kogoe , Kaiu Shuichi, Yasuki Ogura

Crane: Kakita Asam i, Kakita Ryoku, Kakita Kaezin, Kakita Yuri (previous generation?)

Dragon: Agasha Sumiko (admittedly Ruby Champion), Mirumoto Hitomi, Kitsuki Yaruma

Lion: Akodo Kage (too old?), Ikoma Eiji, Kitsu Motso

Phoenix: Asako Maezawa (Again, quite old), Isawa Ujina, Shiba Tetsu

Scorpion: Bayushi Yojiro , Shosuro Hyobu, Yogo Asami

Unicorn: Iuchi Rime i, Shinjo Tatasuo, Utaku Yumino

Ryoku would feel a bit elderly to be the Crane Thunder.... I'm not entirely sure Fu Leng could be defeated by the use of sarcastic put-downs.

Sumiko, as you say, isn't exactly "the little guy" - especially from an RPG perspective - I think Hitomi feels like a nicer choice (especially post her duel with Doji Kunawan showing how good a duellist she is).

21 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Ryoku would feel a bit elderly to be the Crane Thunder.... I'm not entirely sure Fu Leng could be defeated by the use of sarcastic put-downs.

"Behold, my Dark Daughter; greatest of my servants!"

"Wow."

"Scared?"

"No, I can't believe you have a daughter."

"Now that just plain hurts."

5 hours ago, Mangod said:

"Behold, my Dark Daughter; greatest of my servants!"

"Wow."

"Scared?"

"No, I can't believe you have a daughter."

"Now that just plain hurts."

Hey, it’s how Naseru got the job done against Daigotsu!

Iaijutsu has nothing on the cutting power of a Sadane Master.

On 12/9/2019 at 4:13 AM, Magnus Grendel said:

If people wanted a non-shujenga Phoenix, then there's one floating around very close to the current storyline; Tsume no Doji Itsuyo, despite her name, and the fact that she's a Crane Vassal Family Daimyo, is a Shiba bushi who proved quite the duellist. See Wedding At Kyotei Castle for details.

She's also a Crane. No. As Kinzen notes:

On 12/9/2019 at 11:39 AM, Kinzen said:

I don't think it would feel very satisfying to have clans represented by people who aren't members of those clans. L5R pushes the approach where marrying out of your clan means you now belong to your new family (rather than, say, married women keeping their original family names, which has also existed historically), so an Imperial whose mother was a Crane or a Crane who was born a Shiba isn't really going to feel like those individuals are carrying the banner of their ancestral origins.

Sure, you can have your work-arounds. Toturi was a ronin last time despite being the Lion Thunder- but being a ronin is not the same as being part of another clan.

With the Phoenix it's an especially sore spot, because unlike the <redacted so I don't overtax the board's profanity censor> Crane (and Lion, and Scorpion), they would disappear from the story almost entirely for real-life years on end. And now that we have Phoenix characters that fans are actually invested in? No way.

On 12/10/2019 at 8:10 AM, Magnus Grendel said:

Ryoku would feel a bit elderly to be the Crane Thunder.... I'm not entirely sure Fu Leng could be defeated by the use of sarcastic put-downs.

Sumiko, as you say, isn't exactly "the little guy" - especially from an RPG perspective - I think Hitomi feels like a nicer choice (especially post her duel with Doji Kunawan showing how good a duellist she is).

Fair point on Ryoku.

Sumiko, on the other hand, is kinda a little guy made good. She presumably won her position, like the other Jeweled Champions, but is doing so on her own abilities, not those of her family, as she is no shugenja. As far as we can tell, she is not related to the Daimyo in any way (btw, who is that - I haven't managed to get my hands on a Dragon pack or its booklet yet) and doesn't appear to have any sponsors in court. I'd be happy with her as the slightly older mentor member of the team.

1 hour ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Sure, you can have your work-arounds. Toturi was a ronin last time despite being the Lion Thunder- but being a ronin is not the same as being part of another clan.

The ink had barely dried on the declaration of his ronin-hood anyway.

I was just reading the little booklet that came with Seekers of Wisdom, and it talks about the Dragon Clan not actually existing until after the first Day of Thunder. Is this new or has it always been the case? I was kind of sure that Shinsei came to the Dragon Clan lands looking for one of Togashi's Clan and chose Mirumoto last time round.

Pretty sure that's a new wrinkle.

2 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Pretty sure that's a new wrinkle.

Indeed. There's no indication in Emerald Empire that that's the case - the history section 'The Light of a New Dawn' says " Except for Emperor Hantei, all of the Kami established clans made up of their followers .", and 'The War Against Fu Leng' refers to Togashi saying " When Fu Leng told Togashi to choose a weapon, the wise but forlorn founder of the Dragon Clan chose all of Rokugan and all who dwelt within it. ", implying he had already founded the clan by this point.

What does Seekers of Wisdom actually say ?

6 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Indeed. There's no indication in Emerald Empire that that's the case - the history section 'The Light of a New Dawn' says " Except for Emperor Hantei, all of the Kami established clans made up of their followers .", and 'The War Against Fu Leng' refers to Togashi saying " When Fu Leng told Togashi to choose a weapon, the wise but forlorn founder of the Dragon Clan chose all of Rokugan and all who dwelt within it. ", implying he had already founded the clan by this point.

What does Seekers of Wisdom actually say ?

Here's a couple of excerpts

Quote

"People of the Mountains

At the Dawn of the Empire, there were six Great Clans. Each of the Kami had gathered many mortals to serve and learn from them, but not Togashi. Instead he traveled north into the mountains, where he found many small and disparate communities who had made their lives amidst harsh environments. Establishing a simple life for himsef, the Kami who had taken no part in his sibling's tournament set out to meditate on the mysteries of the natural world and on his role in it."

...a description of Agasha's healers and the warriors of the Castle of the Heavens, including Mirumoto. Shinsei comes to get Mirumoto, without meeting Togashi. The Day of Thunder Happens. Shinsei comes back to tell the warriors that one of their number had died, then the story between Togashi and Shinsei, where Shinsei refuses to eat.

"After that day, Togashi ceased his isolation in the mountains and traveled amongst the people who had long studied and protected him [[I make it 3-4 decades]]. These people he invited to join him in a new society, which would take part in his brother's Empire as a Clan dedicated to the future of Rokugan. All accepted his invitation, and so the Dragon Clan began."