17 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

This is the thing: the Raider doesn't care if it runs out of ordnance because by that point it had already laid waste with a maybe alpha strike.

I also really, really enjoy how the Raider acts like it does in Armada: A close-up forward-arc brawler that just annihilates snub fighters with a massive ordnance salvo. And then runs out to come back in for it again.

I so want to see one of these on the big screen. Please don't let me down, future Cassian show!

40 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

This is the thing: the Raider doesn't care if it runs out of ordnance because by that point it had already laid waste with a maybe alpha strike...

I'm not saying that need a drastic difference on points, but I don't think 140 for the CR90 is unreasonable. Time may change my mind.

I'm far from all-experienced, but I've had to reload my Raider to put games away, and I've had to invest in Optimized Power Core to power the reloads. Your mileage may vary.

I probably need to see more Corvettes in action, but for now they can probably stay as is.

51 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

I'm not saying they need a drastic difference on points, but I don't think 140 for the CR90 is unreasonable. Time may change my mind.

She’s a beast. A little awkward in how she presents those guns, but despite massively screwing up tactics she’s carried me home. I wouldn’t be surprised the CR90 goes up!

Epic is also one of those rare situations where you might actually want to bring a ship or two with a Jamming Beam and actually use it in combat. Huge Ships are usually loaded with token stacks, and saturating them with Jam tokens will shut those down much like Ions did vs 1.0 Huge Ships.

I've just played 1 game. But my CR-90 cleaned up the Raider. Was able to get a Range 1 broadside. 5 dice primary followed up by 4 3 dice point defense batteries. I"m not sure if Turbolaser batteries are worth it in a CR-90. You already get Range 4 primaries.

3 hours ago, Chemical_Jedi said:

I've just played 1 game. But my CR-90 cleaned up the Raider. Was able to get a Range 1 broadside. 5 dice primary followed up by 4 3 dice point defense batteries. I"m not sure if Turbolaser batteries are worth it in a CR-90. You already get Range 4 primaries.

I am so happy to be wrong! 😂

6 hours ago, Chemical_Jedi said:

I've just played 1 game. But my CR-90 cleaned up the Raider. Was able to get a Range 1 broadside. 5 dice primary followed up by 4 3 dice point defense batteries. I"m not sure if Turbolaser batteries are worth it in a CR-90. You already get Range 4 primaries.

yeah, but the raider gets 3 range4 attacks too.

2 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

yeah, but the raider gets 3 range4 attacks too.

Worth noting that 2 of those ignore range bonuses and are likely fully modified. That really let's the Raider come ahead in the damage race.

I think it's a little early for opinions to be well formed after just a few games. If you don't get turn zero and range control right, all things explode very fast.

We've played 4 or 5, both the Raider and CR-90 have had turns being badasses, positioning is critical.

I can testify to one thing an Ordnance Raider definitely does not like- a Point Defence CR-90 pulling alongside at R1 and jamming off its lock or reinforce. 1st/2nd player matters a lot in those situations.

Ace wings will be/are a thing. Also what is the point of a mid pilot skill wing and an ace, when the pilot skill 1 version is essentially the same.

59 minutes ago, BenDay said:

Ace wings will be/are a thing. Also what is the point of a mid pilot skill wing and an ace, when the pilot skill 1 version is essentially the same.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.

Are you saying mid range as filler is useless?

It's a case by case basis. Certain midrange are more than happy to be in formation. Biggs, Seastriker, Jess, Bastian, Del, Gideon, etc add a lot to their formations as wingmen.

Others like Temmin should probably be leading their own wing.

And Initiative kills do matter. That QB with Plo and GST is undeniably vicious, but can get crippled by higher initiative squads.

7 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

We've played 4 or 5, both the Raider and CR-90 have had turns being badasses, positioning is critical.

I can testify to one thing an Ordnance Raider definitely does not like- a Point Defence CR-90 pulling alongside at R1 and jamming off its lock or reinforce. 1st/2nd player matters a lot in those situations.

Yeah initial positioning key, more than ever.

That is a fair point on th PDS cr90. There is an inclination to outfit the Cr90 for long range bombardment which it is good at, just that the Ordinance Raider tends to get the drop on it.

10 minutes ago, Octarine-08 said:

Are you saying mid range as filler is useless?

Perhaps not entirely useless if they have a talent slot, but yes, generic mid ps ships get less of an advantage compared to low ps ships to the point where they seem obsolete

19 hours ago, ChahDresh said:

I'm far from all-experienced, but I've had to reload my Raider to put games away, and I've had to invest in Optimized Power Core to power the reloads. Your mileage may vary.

I probably need to see more Corvettes in action, but for now they can probably stay as is.

Every time I’ve reloaded on a Raider I have won the game by a pretty big margin because that means it lived. If the Raider has a weakness I think it’s how it has to fly right into its targets while the CR90 can skirt the field.

Once it gets in the middle the reinforce is worth so much less.

On 12/4/2019 at 4:00 AM, Blail Blerg said:

How do you feel about it currently?

Our store didn't get the full shipment, and so our local group members about half got Epic stuff. This has been a bit frustrating, but I've just given up on getting Epic stuff.

I was looking forward to trying out the new scenarios and "wing" rules, so my current feeling about Epic is Dissapointed.

Balance wise I think it's pretty close to where it should be really. I've got only three games with it, but I've had no issues.

The wing leaders aren't that busted as some would lead you to think really. Focus fire WILL kill them in a round, maybe two if they're lucky, as well as likely drag the whole wing through the coals on damage leaving them prone to being one shot. And since they only move at the Ace init, and shoot at their own, you have plenty of time to throw a wrench in the wing with a blocker, and the option of init sniping some mates if the leader isn't that viable a target. Ace wings are good for sure, but they tend to be glass cannons. I've had better success just putting a wing of low init dudes on the table and moving a wing as a blocker with an enormous foot print.

I like the balancing act of equipping the huge ships for combat. Weapons selection, crew, and equipment choices all matter and have to come together right with your resource economy AND your support. It feels great, and gives a lot of variety. Because I'm a mad man, last time I put two Gozantis with Targeting Battery and Then a wing of 4 TIE fighters and a wing of 4 Interceptors out there. Just numbers weight pushed through a ton of effect, even though I was under init against more than half the opposing list. Just the one-upgrade Gonzo's by themselves were A SUPER EFFECTIVE unit. Only got two shots, but almost always had a lock, and a spare action for reinforce or focus. That was one of my favorite build so far really.

I'm sure I've just not gotten to the broken stuff yet in any significant way though. It's out there, I'm sure. But at this scale of game, my plan for it right now is just to kill it with fire... Overwhelming fire.

Haven't had time to play with Gonzos and Space Whales yet. What am I missing?

I will be a bit sad if I figured out the best raider build already.

Missing? I don't understand the question.

With the scenario play, I'm not sure there even is an optimal build. Maybe for straight head to head. If the designers can get it towards Armada scenarios and you never really know what you encounter though, versatility and flexibility will be key. Not to mention how they fly and what the opposition is will play a huge factor in anything. If someone comes to forego a huge entirely it could really put a Raider or a Corvette on it's off foot.

Besides the fact that a optimal huge ship build is literally just the biggest target on the board. And it WILL die if they choose to kill it. One of the weird things I've noticed about epic so far is that folks forget you still have to focus fire and prioritize targets. It's like in the chaos of all these things going on they just forgot they still could. I'm sure they'll figure it out sooner than later.

2 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

Besides the fact that a optimal huge ship build is literally just the biggest target on the board. And it WILL die if they choose to kill it.

Definitely a thing. Which seems to indicate a rather cool balance to optimal squad building.

One interesting note about huge ships is that they seem to be safer at the 300 point level because there are just fewer guns targeting them. So I really enjoy them in those scenarios. You really get a lot of mileage out of them, and it's fun to watch them do their things.

So far I haven't lost a huge ship quickly in the larger scenarios, but I've seen it happen twice, and it isn't pretty. Since huge ships set up first, you really do need to think about obstacle placement to screen your huge ship from a direct assault.

The one 500 point scenario that might be an exception is Intel Pickup. When I played, huge ships targeted enemy fighters to prevent them from picking up or denying pickup of satellites. There was such an intense focus on the objective that neither of our huge ships fired on each other - they almost felt more like interactive terrain than ships. It was so cool to have them stay alive the whole time looming over the battlefield.

Hmm. I’ve tried 400 points and it seems relatively balanced but the Huges are a huge factor.

It actually seems like 500 is the right choice for epic. Just enough stuff to really threaten a large ship with squads.

No no comment on pure squads vs huge ship. Haven’t tried it. Would rather see epics on table.

On 12/5/2019 at 11:52 AM, Cuz05 said:

I think it's a little early for opinions to be well formed after just a few games. If you don't get turn zero and range control right, all things explode very fast.

We've played 4 or 5, both the Raider and CR-90 have had turns being badasses, positioning is critical.

I can testify to one thing an Ordnance Raider definitely does not like- a Point Defence CR-90 pulling alongside at R1 and jamming off its lock or reinforce. 1st/2nd player matters a lot in those situations.

I imagine that the raider definitely doesn't like Jamming Beams.

How about this? Jamming beam to strip tokens, ion turret to strip energy, and then broadside with the point-defense battery.

Syndicate Smugglers (58)
Point-Defense Battery (10)
IG-88D (3)
Optimized Power Core (6)
Merchant One (8)
Corsair Refit (15)
Jamming Beam (0)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
Damage Control Team (3)
Tibanna Reserves (3)

Ship total: 111 Half Points: 56 Threshold: 8

1 hour ago, Cerebrawl said:

I imagine that the raider definitely doesn't like Jamming Beams.

How about this? Jamming beam to strip tokens, ion turret to strip energy, and then broadside with the point-defense battery.

Syndicate Smugglers (58)
Point-Defense Battery (10)
IG-88D (3)
Optimized Power Core (6)
Merchant One (8)
Corsair Refit (15)
Jamming Beam (0)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
Damage Control Team (3)
Tibanna Reserves (3)

Ship total: 111 Half Points: 56 Threshold: 8

Ion doesnt strip energy, it locks out actions once you get 6 tokens.

Stress strips energy.

On 12/4/2019 at 7:50 PM, PhantomFO said:

Epic is also one of those rare situations where you might actually want to bring a ship or two with a Jamming Beam and actually use it in combat. Huge Ships are usually loaded with token stacks, and saturating them with Jam tokens will shut those down much like Ions did vs 1.0 Huge Ships.

Yup

About the only time you'd actually bother with that trash

And the only time a t-70's hardpoint upgrade has mattered!

Very clutch in epic...if you don't forget about them

Jamming beam has a lot of use in regular and epic play, but usually as a reinforce stripper. A Tavson with jamming beam and a full flight of anything can burn down any huge ship in 2 rounds just because of jamming beam.