How do you feel about it currently?

Not super fond of the Tantive. I keep watching my opponent dodge turbolasers with +1+2 obstacle + range with 3 dice and some calculates. Also, deployment is really tough and turbo lasers suck energy.

Also YASB doesn't post the changes of stats from the titles... =(

How do the smaller ships feel? Are they good?

Any point in docking?

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

How do you feel about it currently?

Good. But Epic games take so long that it's hard to play enough to get a really good read. Also, scenarios can skew the view of balance. But I do have some opinions.

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

Not super fond of the Tantive. I keep watching my opponent dodge turbolasers with +1+2 obstacle + range with 3 dice and some calculates. Also, deployment is really tough and turbo lasers suck energy.

Well, you have two things here: Turbolasers and CR90. My opinion is that both of those can stand to go down a couple points. The CR90 doesn't quite stand up to the Raider, and the Turbolasers have an in-game cost that's high enough that the squad building cost can be reduced.

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

Also YASB doesn't post the changes of stats from the titles... =(

They are reflected on the ship stats after you equip a title, but you can't see them on the cards to help you make the decision. I agree, this should be fixed.

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

Any point in docking?

Heck yeah! Launching in the System Phase can really surprise your opponent and mess up their plans. Also, ace ships that don't like wings (e.g. Whisper) still like to hang out safely on a huge ship until the smaller ships thin out a little, or at least to get behind the enemy lines. Some Gozanti titles also give bonuses to ships it deploys, which is nice.

I think the CR90 is a killer. You just can’t waste the turbolaser on shots you are likely to miss. Even if it doesn’t hit the reinforce and regen mean they have to focus it down while they still have the numbers. I’ve killed a Ghost in 2 rounds with only the CR90. That’s what it’s for. Load it for action economy.

I haven’t really enjoyed the scenarios as much. But I don’t really like them in the regular game either.

I think the factions with huge ships and no titles are mostly in a weird spot. They should release those in a card pack.

19 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

I’ve killed a Ghost in 2 rounds

In my experience flying the VCX, that’s what it’s best at ✌️🙃

37 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

In my experience flying the VCX, that’s what it’s best at ✌️🙃

True! But in epic you can stack coordinates on it until it has full actions every turn. Then Biggs/selfless/adaptive shields and it can usually live a long time against concentrated fire. But the CR90 just takes these massive bites out of it.

Turbolasers are very much ship-v-ship weapons (as opposed to anti-fighters), which in Xwing means "target the 0 agility!"

Against dodgier targets, you want four dice stuff (not counting the targeting battery, which just seems autoinclude)

4 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Not super fond of the Tantive.

The CR90 has been a star both times I've put it on the table. Haven't faced a Raider yet, but has shredded the fighter swarms. It was popping a TIE/SF a turn with a gun to spare for somebody else to worry about.

I haven't used the turbolaser batteries yet, I'm not overly impressed with the cost of the upgrade and the cost to fire. It's truly devastating if it hits, but such a limited window of opportunity.

As to balance, with only two games completed, I can't really measure balance fairly. It seems good? I mean, it's a 200 point ship (ok, roughly 175 with what I put on it) so it should be strong. It's a solid investment in a single piece. It can be destroyed, but it's tough without a coordinated effort.

I'm yet to play, epic stuff hopefully coming at Christmas if Santa got my note. I've been worried that Imperials may be super powered because of things like Sloane and Jendon, basically upgrades that scale well. Has anyone experienced this?

7 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

How do you feel about it currently?

Not super fond of the Tantive. I keep watching my opponent dodge turbolasers with +1+2 obstacle + range with 3 dice and some calculates. Also, deployment is really tough and turbo lasers suck energy.

Also YASB doesn't post the changes of stats from the titles... =(

How do the smaller ships feel? Are they good?

Any point in docking?

In my experience the tantive with turbo laser is amazing for shooting other epic ships. You get 3 red dice. And they get a maximum of 3 green dice. Usually less. So your shots should hit with high consistency. Especially if u take a focus/calculate and grab a target lock from targetting battery.

2 hours ago, eljms said:

I'm yet to play, epic stuff hopefully coming at Christmas if Santa got my note. I've been worried that Imperials may be super powered because of things like Sloane and Jendon, basically upgrades that scale well. Has anyone experienced this?

Sloane and jendon are too strong in epic. I would think jabba would be too. I usually try not to use overpowered cards in epic as the essence of it is fly casual and everyone has fun.

Lol. Hey people. Just so you know, yes I knowwww you're supposed to shoot 0 agility stuff okay.. ???

In case that wasn't clear lol.

And yes, I did get "unlucky" in two of the shots (probably only 3-4 total as you run out of energy fast) where my opposite was able to show +1+2 green dice all with paint using some coordinates, but anyways. I did nail a Tie bomber for 4 dmg, but it didn't really matter.

The raider was attacking back for 4 attacks a turn had it gotten into range, thankfully I didn't let it, but even at range 3-4 with bombardment specs, the raider was throwing out WAY more damage than the CR90. Also the full weight of the Raider is something on the order of 18dice. Comparably, the CR90 gets 3TarBat, 4prim, 3+3maxTurbo(only 2-3 shots a game, and sometimes they still will miss), maxing out at 13.

"Full weight" of the Raider? You'd have to do something pretty specific to get that "full weight", whereas the Correllian ship is more flexible and can engage with its full battery at more ranges. Because the Corellian ship is taking fewer shots to do its damage, it needs fewer mods. (A good portion of those notional 18 dice will be gently modded or unmodded.) Also, while an ordnance Raider can put out a lot of damage quickly, it then either runs out or has to flush its energy reloading with Ordnance Team. Not saying it can't, but it's not as easy as it perhaps sounds. And a loaded ordnance Raider is more expensive than the Corvette you cited. Finally, because of the reach and side arc of the Corvette, it has a relatively easier time maintaining range and aspect, as opposed to the Raider which is more obliged to close range and expose its flanks.

I think the Corvette is probably fine. If you wanted to drop turbolasers a little (12 maybe) I wouldn't whine, but it's probably also fine given its potential.

53 minutes ago, TBot said:

I would think jabba would be too

In 1.0 Jabba was ridiculous in Epic. Double glitterstim for everyone ...

In 2.0 he's charge based, can only help one ship at a time and there's a range restriction too. So personally, I don't think he's overpowered. It's the upgrades that can help your entire fleet that are going to be white hot. Drea for scum is potentially another one.

12 minutes ago, eljms said:

Drea for scum is potentially another one.

Yup. You can even just cloak her for the first couple turns. She’s solid.

But no faction has a thing like this that just beats the other factions out imo.

Drea, Sloane, Howl, Jendon, Jonus, Gavin, TA-175, Leia, Sear, Tarkin...

There are plenty of options that are very, very powerful in Epic. I feel like half the fun is in watching these things really shine.

21 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Drea, Sloane, Howl, Jendon, Jonus, Gavin, TA-175, Leia, Sear, Tarkin...

Again - I've not played yet so this is all conjecture from me, but I'd have thought that Howlrunner / Jonus aren't a lot more powerful than they are in standard games due to the limitations of the range 1 restriction, and also that they just become a priority target. Jendon could be handing out 20 target locks first round and there's nothing you can really do about it.

Leia's going to be great for sure.

5 minutes ago, eljms said:

I'd have thought that Howlrunner / Jonus aren't a lot more powerful than they are in standard games due to the limitations of the range 1 restriction, and also that they just become a priority target.

One word: WINGS

Suddenly your force-multiplier becomes unkillable, and now they can support 5 ships (including locks for your bombers!!) without extra actions or difficult positioning required. Iden and Howl in a wing of TIEs makes for an insanely powerful and resilient block. Unless you can knock all the wingmates out, those rerolls are just pouring through. And that turbolaser shot that hit Howl? Iden says "nope."

Add in that (as I understand it) Jonus can give rerolls to your Raider on its ordnance shots, and you have a tanky endgame ship that can just laugh off damage and buff everything.

Ordnance seems really really strong in Epic.

Don’t play the smaller Huge ships in standard play. I found the C-ROC to be a little too powerful if the enemy does literally anything other than focus it from the start, since it has reinforce and can regenerate two shields per turn with the title.

Docking is a fantastic way to protect your Dreadnaught Hunter from getting blown off the board before they can get into attack range.

On the Scum side of things: being able to run 88A, 88B and 88C in a squad with 88D crewing a C-ROC is just hilarious. Add Azmorigan for Kraken-esque savings of Calculate and Evade tokens. Not only does 88D double the C-ROC's Calc token generation, but he also lets the Corsair Refit use 88B's ability for a free cannon shot. Double C-ROC's is also an option, with one taking a more offensive role and the other working more as a Coordinate/support ship.

1 hour ago, ChahDresh said:

"Full weight" of the Raider? You'd have to do something pretty specific to get that "full weight", whereas the Correllian ship is more flexible and can engage with its full battery at more ranges. Because the Corellian ship is taking fewer shots to do its damage, it needs fewer mods. (A good portion of those notional 18 dice will be gently modded or unmodded.) Also, while an ordnance Raider can put out a lot of damage quickly, it then either runs out or has to flush its energy reloading with Ordnance Team. Not saying it can't, but it's not as easy as it perhaps sounds. And a loaded ordnance Raider is more expensive than the Corvette you cited. Finally, because of the reach and side arc of the Corvette, it has a relatively easier time maintaining range and aspect, as opposed to the Raider which is more obliged to close range and expose its flanks.

I think the Corvette is probably fine. If you wanted to drop turbolasers a little (12 maybe) I wouldn't whine, but it's probably also fine given its potential.

You asked, and so you shall receive.

(This was a 400pt version.)

Outer Rim Patrol (150)
Stalwart Captain (6)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Concussion Missiles (6)
Targeting Battery (9)
Ordnance Tubes (2)
Bombardment Specialists (6)
Damage Control Team (3)
Boosted Scanners (8)
Corvus (3)

Tomax Bren (36)
Crack Shot (1)
Barrage Rockets (8)
Afterburners (6)
Veteran Wing Leader (2)

Captain Jonus (43)
Diamond-Boron Missiles (6)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (29)
Barrage Rockets (8)

“Duchess” (42)
Predator (2)
Fifth Brother (9)
Total: 398

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Raider with 4 attacks + ramming speed (5th way to deal damage), + Jonus.

Corvus gives 2 calc tokens. Targeting Battery for TLs.

Getting bullseye was very common on the 4th-5th turn.

At R4 you could ONLY make 3 attacks: Take TL using boosted scanners, link to 2 calculates from bombardment specs and corvus, and then Focus as second action. Proton Torpedoes at R4 via bombardment specs, Targeting Battery, Primary at R4 via bombardment specs. Spend 2 energy... lol. Assuming bullseye, which was common against the CR90...
5 dice PTs, 3 dice TB, 5 dice Primary, for 13 TL F(one) dice plus Jonus Bonus.

Assuming at R2-3, 4 attacks + ramming as you want to close asap:
5 dice PT, 3 dice TB, 4 dice Concussion Missiles, 5 dice Primary + ram for insult. 17 nearly fully modded dice with TLs, Jonus, 2 calculates and a focus. And then ram them for speed 5=5 crits to both of you for fun.

At R1 of course you're adding range for primary. One reason I'm highly considering bombardment specs for the CR90, though its probably way too late...

Anyway, Raider has more firepower.

Full weighted raider has enough firepower to fully kill an unshielded CR90 in ONE turn. 17 modded dice + 5 crits, possible 22 damage. CR90 has 18 health and you can jam off the reinforce with a squad.

(Okay, it might still take longer with a next turn ram, but anyways.)

I mean, if you're going to expand the comparison to say "if I include this other ship positioned like so", you greatly muddy the waters as to what is achievable by different ships. Do you really want to get into hypotheticals of "well my Fenn Rau just shuts your Raider down, so obviously the Raider needs a buff"? Or "but you forgot about my Squad Leader Jan Ors who makes the firepower of the CR90 better!" And so it goes.

If you're talking about what the ship can do on its own... you're also getting your math wrong, because you're not charging yourself the Boosted Scanners energy. You're double counting your calculates because you're talking about ramming which would put you at range one, but then you'd need the calculates to use Bombardment Specialists so they're not available as mods, and you'd lose a shot since you have 3 range 2+ attacks. You grant yourself the liberty to focus, so I guess you're assuming the enemy won't shoot your Raider, or that any damage the Raider takes won't be meaningful, and you further assume the enemy isn't shooting Jonus either because you're assuming Jonus is ever-present for your mods. You blithely talk about jamming off the enemy's reinforce when you don't have anything that can jam other than the Raider. You assume bullseye, which is a dangerous assumption, and you assume you can easily close while MAINTAINING bullseye, and that you can get your locks easily (implying you're going second) but also that you can pull off a speed 5 ram the turn after you achieve bullseye (implying you're going first) and that the ram damage on you is fine, just fine. You even assume away the CR90's shields and shield regen! That's a lot of flipping assumptions!

This is what I meant when I said you'd have to do something pretty specific.

This is not to undersell the ferocious firepower of an ordnance Raider that achieves bullseye. I just think you've been a little unreasonable. Proclaiming that you could do 17 damage in one turn is a lot sexier than saying you'll probably do more like 8 to 10 and then be low on ordnance. The lower number, sadly, happens to be the more probable one... and it happens to fall into a range the CR90 can match.

Extreme shortage on Huge ship packs here (northern Europe). One local got one pack, so we had a wild massive 2 sides battle (4 players each side, 4 Huges on the board) last club night.

So with the caveat of only 1 battle: Looked good, ion battery was brutal.

Time will tell if Ace wings (i.e. one reposition high ini ace + low ini cheap scrubs) are not a little too good. As in: the leader does all the fancy reposition at ini 5 or 6, ends up maybe stressed and shooting unmodded but all the accompanying scrubs do the same reposition shenanigans without paying the action and stress costs, and shoot fully modded.

[Tried to send some hours ago. Did not go through, thus I was partly ninja'ed : ]

1 hour ago, ClassicalMoser said:

One word: WINGS

Suddenly your force-multiplier becomes unkillable, and now they can support 5 ships (including locks for your bombers!!) without extra actions or difficult positioning required. Iden and Howl in a wing of TIEs makes for an insanely powerful and resilient block. Unless you can knock all the wingmates out, those rerolls are just pouring through. And that turbolaser shot that hit Howl? Iden says "nope."

Add in that (as I understand it) Jonus can give rerolls to your Raider on its ordnance shots, and you have a tanky endgame ship that can just laugh off damage and buff everything.

Ordnance seems really really strong in Epic.

Sinker does only boost primaries but him alongside a Huge is evil as well, as Huges are do large no problem to keep the Huge and escorts in Sinker's side arc.

Gavin is expensive but him seeing the other Huge your Huge is shooting wouod be brutal.

8 hours ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

I think the factions with huge ships and no titles are mostly in a weird spot. They should release those in a card pack.

I still think some unreleased Huge is already lurking right around the corner. We have in the pdf a points value for the Cargo "Coaxium Injectors", but not the card.

This is the thing: the Raider doesn't care if it runs out of ordnance because by that point it had already laid waste with a massive alpha strike.

Sure, it will have to change tactics at that point if it wants to keep the pressure up, but often times two rounds of firing leaves the enemy's squad gutted.

I'm not saying they need a drastic difference on points, but I don't think 140 for the CR90 is unreasonable. Time may change my mind.