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I bought tickets the day they went on sale, for the first available show in my town. That means Thursday, which is also my regular gaming night, so I bought tickets for my regular gaming group, in addition to myself and my kids.

All Star Wars is good.

Not all Star Wars is equally good.

I hope they do this one well, but I'm going to see it regardless.

11 hours ago, KCDodger said:

****, check out the overwhelming negativity around this fi-

oh a vast majority is definitely going

h u h

Morbid curiosity?

I generally dislike JJ Abrams' work, so I'm not really excited, but if it gets good reviews/word of mouth I might see it first week.

Have tickets for Thursday preview show at 6pm. Don't know what to expect, just going to try to enjoy it for what it is.

I don't really get all the vitriol on TLJ.

I mean, sure:

Was there some wasted time in Canto Bight? Sure, I guess (but look at Ewoks and podracing...).

Were there unfathomable decisions made by characters? Sure, I guess (but look at every character in the prequels. Or even Obi Wan and Yoda lying about Anakin in the OT...)

Are there some weak-ish characters? Sure, I guess (but have Star Wars characters ever had that much development? I can't really relate to any except in the shows...)

Are there some surface-level contradictions with lore? Sure, I guess (but look at the midichlorians , and Yoda becoming an acrobatic wizard, and Anakin building Threepio...)

Did they waste a perfectly good character yet again? Sure, I guess (but the same can be said of both Boba and Jango Fett, and it's certainly true of Darth Maul as far as the saga movies go)

But on the other hand:

Were there some incredible "WOW" moments? Holdo's maneuver is an unequivocal "yes," as is Kylo's betrayal of Snoke and Luke's final stand.

Were there some cool plot twists? Sure, DJ's turnaround and Luke's attitude were a surprise to many, as well as Yoda's appearance.

Was there a bunch of cinematic candy? Of course; what else would you call the dreadnaught battle, and Crait, and the force scenes on Ach-To?

I mean, TLJ is far from a great movie, but it is very much a Star Wars movie, following in all of the fun and flaws that have always been part and parcel to the series. The #notmystarwars crowd doesn't really have ground to stand on as far as that goes. Almost everything they complain about is something that is not at all unique to episode eight, but is almost a full-on tradition of the IP. And to those who blame it on Disney and say Lucas should be behind the wheel: He was the worst offender on this front. You can look that up independently but it's definitely true.

But The Last Jedi is also just a whole lot of fun , which is pretty much everything a Star Wars movie is supposed to be. Rule of cool isn't a fault in the sequel trilogy but is essentially the MO of Star Wars cinema. There have always been contradictions and retcons. It's people like Dave Filoni who go through and clean everything up to make it awesome at a deeper level. The Star Wars universe is in good hands as long as he's involved, and Disney is taking the universe in a very solid direction. Most of all because they listen to their fans , which Lucas never did or had to do.

For my own part, I'm seeing it at 10pm opening night with my wife. I'm very excited about it. The Last Jedi wasn't really my favorite Star Wars movie (that probably has to go to Rogue One), but it was okay, and it was fun. Who knows? Maybe Episode IX will be my favorite movie. If they do it the way they should and tie all the threads up neatly without resorting to time travel or stupid gimmicks, I'll be ecstatic. Is that too much to hope for? I guess we'll see.

7 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

But on the other hand:

Were there some incredible "WOW" moments? Holdo's maneuver is an unequivocal "yes," as is Kylo's betrayal of Snoke and Luke's final stand.

Were there some cool plot twists? Sure, DJ's turnaround and Luke's attitude were a surprise to many, as well as Yoda's appearance.

I didn’t find the Holdo maneuver to be wow. DJ was just uninteresting and honestly a bit predictable. Kylo turning on Snoke got ruined mere minutes after.

I will grant you, that Yoda appearance was a nice touch.

Honestly, I liked the eye candy (dreadnaught battle, Crait), some of the Porg humor with Chewie. That’s about it. It fell flat everywhere else for me.... but I moved on. Except for when I’m accused of Misogyny for not loving the movie.

Just now, ScummyRebel said:

I didn’t find the Holdo maneuver to be wow. DJ was just uninteresting and honestly a bit predictable. Kylo turning on Snoke got ruined mere minutes after.

I will grant you, that Yoda appearance was a nice touch.

Honestly, I liked the eye candy (dreadnaught battle, Crait), some of the Porg humor with Chewie. That’s about it. It fell flat everywhere else for me.... but I moved on. Except for when I’m accused of Misogyny for not loving the movie.

Eh. Your mileage may vary. I didn't think Lando's betrayal in ESB was that surprising, or interesting either. Not sure how Kylo's betrayal was ruined for you; I'm very interested to see what kind of supreme leader he makes for. It's fine. It's not trash, it's generally fun, it is Star Wars , and it's all going to be okay in the end.

But yeah, extremes are thrown all around. I like Rey, but I don't think she's a super strong character ( Hint: neither is Luke Skywalker – you can't make a fully-developed character amidst 3 hours of action-packed sequences). But since I liked the movie, I get sick of being called a Disney apologist too. Polarization is pretty much my least favorite thing; it's like people can't have nuanced opinions anymore.

10 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

.... but I moved on. Except for when I’m accused of Misogyny for not loving the movie.

4 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

But since I liked the movie, I get sick of being called a Disney apologist too.

This is something important I would like to highlight. I’ve got no problem how ever you land on the movie. Love it or hate it (and all the shades in between), you do you. You watched it, you formed your own opinion.

But it’s hard to keep that attitude when you are labeled and dismissed as “a misogynist” or “apologist”. I hate labels like that because it kills nuance, and poisons chances to find an understanding.

It is also particularly angering when someone objects to being labeled, then proceeds to do that to the other side. Seen it more than a few times on both sides of this debate.

So, for all those reading this, maybe avoid using labels in future, eh? Maybe keep in mind that someone can have can a view about a piece of entertainment counter to yours and that’s alright. It doesn’t make them whatever buzzword is popular at the time. Maybe we could have avoided much of this drama if people weren’t so quick to resort to name calling.

Or don’t. Your choice.

Just now, SabineKey said:

This is something important I would like to highlight. I’ve got no problem how ever you land on the movie. Love it or hate it (and all the shades in between), you do you. You watched it, you formed your own opinion.

But it’s hard to keep that attitude when you are labeled and dismissed as “a misogynist” or “apologist”. I hate labels like that because it kills nuance, and poisons chances to find an understanding.

It is also particularly angering when someone objects to being labeled, then proceeds to do that to the other side. Seen it more than a few times on both sides of this debate.

So, for all those reading this, maybe avoid using labels in future, eh? Maybe keep in mind that someone can have can a view about a piece of entertainment counter to yours and that’s alright. It doesn’t make them whatever buzzword is popular at the time. Maybe we could have avoided much of this drama if people weren’t so quick to resort to name calling.

Or don’t. Your choice.

Using those labels liberally also undercuts their value when an opinion is truly based on misogyny or what not.

Just now, dsul413 said:

Using those labels liberally also undercuts their value when an opinion is truly based on misogyny or what not.

That’s true. I do think there are people out there for whom these labels accurately apply, though I think and hope in small numbers. But instead of actually trying to understand a person, mud is slung indiscriminately.

14 hours ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

It’s almost like the people loudly attacking the new films are in the extreme minority.

Ding ding ding ding ding!

Already got my tickets for day after Christmas, but going in with low expectations.

2 hours ago, SabineKey said:

So, for all those reading this, maybe avoid using labels in future, eh? Maybe keep in mind that someone can have can a view about a piece of entertainment counter to yours and that’s alright. It doesn’t make them whatever buzzword is popular at the time. Maybe we could have avoided much of this drama if people weren’t so quick to resort to name calling.

Or don’t. Your choice.

I feel like honestly this is what the whole “we are fighting about this years later” is really all about.

Its not the movie. The movie is the catalyst. The rest is “well if you think this then you must be....” and it all devolves from there. The fact a lot of the fight also includes real world politics just makes the whole thing worse.

Like the movie? Great! Hate the movie? Fine! I’m good with keeping politics out of our movie discussion.

6 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

I feel like honestly this is what the whole “we are fighting about this years later” is really all about.

Its not the movie. The movie is the catalyst. The rest is “well if you think this then you must be....” and it all devolves from there. The fact a lot of the fight also includes real world politics just makes the whole thing worse.

Like the movie? Great! Hate the movie? Fine! I’m good with keeping politics out of our movie discussion.

bUt PoLiTiCs ArE a PaRt Of EvErYtHiNg! 😉

3 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

I feel like honestly this is what the whole “we are fighting about this years later” is really all about.

Its not the movie. The movie is the catalyst. The rest is “well if you think this then you must be....” and it all devolves from there. The fact a lot of the fight also includes real world politics just makes the whole thing worse.

Like the movie? Great! Hate the movie? Fine! I’m good with keeping politics out of our movie discussion.

On one hand there's folks saying "Let's keep the politics out."

On the other hand, [insert awful take here that is aimed at a minority, as said by very angry star wars fan with sizeable following, or very angry forumgoer] comes up and they always expect it to go uncontested, then when it is, "oh no, no politics."

it's weak.

I think the voting is pretty much done now, at least I haven't gotten an alert in like 12 hours, thanks everyone for participating and keeping it cool in here. I was legit expecting like 20 replies and we almost got five times that.

As it stands of this post, it's just about 87% going, 13% not. Plenty of commentary on the reasons and what not which all vary quite a bit. It's floated pretty close to that 90/10 split through out too. And personally, 10% was actually a surprising number to see.

Only two swamp casualties though! Watto's Quadrijet Towing service will be billing you both soon 😆

Additionally I'd like to point out that this poll would in no way be an accurate indicator of public opinion as the sample size is both small and narrow in scope. And is hardly an indicator of even the forum as a whole the sample is so small I believe. So it's fun to be had, nothing data significant really gained.

Before the weekend proper hits, which I imagine may get us a few more votes and discussion, I wanted to interject on one really interesting personal observation. It would realistically require a whole night of chatting to explain it all over some drinks, but I'll keep it to a foot note: it's interesting to me what came up as reasons to go, or not to go. The poll was cast with no reason for your vote indicated intentionally. Like, you could have said "I don't like crowded theatres", or "I enjoy the festivities of going in the early rush". So the discussion is an interesting one.

Now I'm trying really hard to just be a moderator at this point for the thread. So I'll leave that intentionally quite open ended and maybe get back to it later. And let you all get back to it right away! Keep it cool! 😄 👍

11 hours ago, KCDodger said:

On one hand there's folks saying "Let's keep the politics out."

On the other hand, [insert awful take here that is aimed at a minority, as said by very angry star wars fan with sizeable following, or very angry forumgoer] comes up and they always expect it to go uncontested, then when it is, "oh no, no politics."

it's weak.

Who on this forum has a “sizable following?” I haven’t been in any Last Jedi debates anywhere else.... because I’m not seeking it out.

If you actively seek out debate, you’re going to meet a lot of interesting characters on the Internet. No matter what the topic of your debate is. Put another way - I don’t go wandering out into a political protest downtown and then act shocked when I find extreme views; I simply avoid the block if I want to go about my business unscathed.

The only time I see real world politics being acceptable for a fictional entertainment-driven film (as opposed to a documentary or docu-drama, where one expects it for context) discussion is when you’re discussing a film’s usage of them (and my argument in that context is “keep politics out of entertainment because it detracts from the story.”)

Hard pass for me. Almost walked out of The Last Jedi; first time I've ever felt that way about a film, and I saw Showgirls and Sly Stallone's Judge Dredd in the cinema.

Might eventually watch it when it appears on free TV.

Much more interested in The Mandalorian and the Cassian Andor series tbh.

On 12/3/2019 at 3:01 PM, PaulRuddSays said:

After every new trailer, my wife has some refrain of: "they're really not going to tell us what this movie is actually about, are they?"

This exactly. The trailers give me no reason to suspect anything other than another JJ film where it races from one spectacle to another with no time to take a breath or notice how threadbare and tattered the plot is. The trailers have most decidedly not informed us what the movie will be about.

1 hour ago, Frimmel said:

This exactly. The trailers give me no reason to suspect anything other than another JJ film where it races from one spectacle to another with no time to take a breath or notice how threadbare and tattered the plot is. The trailers have most decidedly not informed us what the movie will be about.

Since it’s the end of the trilogy/saga, I think it’s intended to be as spoiler-free as possible.

only question you have to ask yourself is if you want to know how the story end or not.

If yes: then go see it in theater or wait for the blu-ray release.

If not: then skip it.

If you are not sure or need some spoilers to make your idea: then wait a week or two after release to decide. It’s perfectly acceptable to not go see it during the first week.

38 minutes ago, Red Castle said:

Since it’s the end of the trilogy/saga, I think it’s intended to be as spoiler-free as possible.

only question you have to ask yourself is if you want to know how the story end or not.

If yes: then go see it in theater or wait for the blu-ray release.

If not: then skip it.

If you are not sure or need some spoilers to make your idea: then wait a week or two after release to decide. It’s perfectly acceptable to not go see it during the first week.

I have to ask if I want to know how it ends enough to pay them to know. I have to ask how badly I want to look at the carnage. If it is better to know now or to put it off.

I also point out that spoiler-free is not the same thing as telling us what the movie is about. What the movie is about and what happens in the movie are not the same thing either. The trailer shows lots of things that happen in the movie. These happenings can be given context without giving away the twists and turns. The trailer provides zero context for any of the happenings in the film.

My experience with JJ indicates that his movies aren't really about anything. Lots of exciting things happen in his movies. When they happen fast enough you can sometimes keep from noticing how they don't go together properly or how threadbare and full of holes they are. But usually I notice while watching them. This trailer by not providing any context or suggestion of what the film is about suggests that I should expect what I typically get while watching this so called director's movies.

I also find this director tends to grasp for emotional beats that he hasn't earned. He leans on nostalgia or perhaps more what we bring into the cinema from prior installments or versions to generate emotion that he doesn't know how to invoke. He is quite willing to use that as both crutch and red-herring. And to do so at the same time. That these trailers do not tell us what the movie is about nor provide much in the way of dialog suggests again that this will be a typical film from this director. Even if spoiler-free the trailer can't have us seeing the holes before we get in the cinema.

I also point out that one of my dislikes about Last Jedi is how it played like a peeing contest between Johnson and Abrahms. That Kylo has the mask on in some of the happenings in the movie (the mask's treatment between TFA and TLJ being a chief instigator of the contest between directors idea) suggests more urine will be present in this movie.

12 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

I also point out that spoiler-free is not the same thing as telling us what the movie is about. What the movie is about and what happens in the movie are not the same thing either. The trailer shows lots of things that happen in the movie. These happenings can be given context without giving away the twists and turns. The trailer provides zero context for any of the happenings in the film.

Since it is the third part of a trilogy, based on both previous Episode, I think it is safe to assume that the movie will be about rebuilding the Resistance to confront the First Order and end their push for control over the galaxy. Based on the trailer, we know that they'll visit the Death Star ruins (giving the reason why could be a spoiler), we know that there is a big fleet that is rising (saying where it is coming from could be a spoiler), we know that Rey and Kylo confront each other again (exact setting could be a spoiler), we know that Rey, Poe, Finn and Rose go on an adventure (telling what they seek could be a spoiler).

I personally think that the trailers are saying enough (especially combined with the story so far in Episode 7 and 8 ) about what the movie will be about without giving any spoilers. What more do you really need to know about the story?

4 minutes ago, Red Castle said:

Since it is the third part of a trilogy, based on both previous Episode, I think it is safe to assume that the movie will be about rebuilding the Resistance to confront the First Order and end their push for control over the galaxy. Based on the trailer, we know that they'll visit the Death Star ruins (giving the reason why could be a spoiler), we know that there is a big fleet that is rising (saying where it is coming from could be a spoiler), we know that Rey and Kylo confront each other again (exact setting could be a spoiler), we know that Rey, Poe, Finn and Rose go on an adventure (telling what they seek could be a spoiler).

I personally think that the trailers are saying enough (especially combined with the story so far in Episode 7 and 8 ) about what the movie will be about without giving any spoilers. What more do you really need to know about the story?

"Safe to assume?" Given how I'm supposed to applaud The Last Jedi for subverting expectations how in the heck can I make a single assumption about what this movie is going to be about?

My assumption about what this might be about is they're getting in a few more twists of the knife used to kill the happy ending of "Return of The Jedi." And for some reason I hear them shouting, "SEE! SEE! Mary Sue...errrrrr... Rey is totally trained. See that sweat! See that running! Through the trees! Just like Luke!!! Now shut up about Mary Sue...errrrr... Rey not being trained you misogynists. She will be totally trained in this movie. We're totally making you happy in that regard. Mary Sue... Rey! Rey! Rey is Trained! Checking that one right off the list. Totally fixing that. Come see the rest of the things we're totally fixing in this one!"

I'm not particularly excited for it. I'm no sequel hater, but I'm unsure as to whether this trilogy can be adequately wrapped up in one movie.

That said I have three viewings already setup for the first weekend... My wife and I got tickets for Thursday night and then work announced they'd be renting a theater on Friday and then some neighbors invited us to a Saturday showing their work is throwing. So it better be good! 😅