What do the following ships have in common?

• Auzituck Gunship
• N-1
• Nantex

They're all produced and primarily used by one specific planet. They're also pretty underused (At least the Nantex WILL be after the next points update).
There are some other underused ships that are not exclusive to, but are strongly associated with specific systems, like

• TIE Striker
• VCX-100 (At least the Ghost and its represented pilots)
• Fang Fighter
• (Arguably) Mining Guild TIE

My idea is this: Have thematic games/events set in specific systems where these ships are discounted as appropriate. On the whole, it makes sense for these ships to be underused, as XMG is assumed to take place all over the Galaxy, but on the other hand, N-1s and Nantexes were everywhere in their respective movies and I want to see that happen in the game once in awhile. I would love to see a Naboo battle where multiple N-1s are scrambled with one ARC-170 the Republic sent to support them, or a battle over Kashyyyk where Chewbacca didn't need much convincing to help out his Auzituck bros. The opposition would of course have to plan around the higher likelihood of encountering planetary fighters.

I'm not a big cruncher, so don't ask me what specific numbers should be seen, but I'd love to hear the community's thoughts on this.

As a side note, the TIE Phantom has been mostly overused, considering the brief window that the Imdaar facility was even manufacturing them. I'm wondering if they can be priced higher for the overall benefit of the game, but still have Imdaar events to keep the fear alive...

You may be interested in checking out http://advancedtargeting.computer/index.html

Your feelings may be dependent on your local meta. I see all of the planetary defense fighters you listed above except the Auzituck and the Striker reasonably often.

2 hours ago, Averross said:

As a side note, the TIE Phantom has been mostly overused, considering the brief window that the Imdaar facility was even manufacturing them.

2 hours ago, Averross said:

My idea is this: Have thematic games/events set in specific systems where these ships are discounted as appropriate. On the whole, it makes sense for these ships to be underused, as XMG is assumed to take place all over the Galaxy, but on the other hand, N-1s and Nantexes were everywhere in their respective movies and I want to see that happen in the game once in awhile. I would love to see a Naboo battle where multiple N-1s are scrambled with one ARC-170 the Republic sent to support them, or a battle over Kashyyyk where Chewbacca didn't need much convincing to help out his Auzituck bros. The opposition would of course have to plan around the higher likelihood of encountering planetary fighters.

I'm not a big cruncher, so don't ask me what specific numbers should be seen, but I'd love to hear the community's thoughts on this.

I can't believe I am going to type this, but gameplay >> fluff.

You can't price ships based on Frequency of Appearance if you actually want the ships to be balanced for gameplay.

What you need to do is write scenarios which emphasize the use of certain ships based on a thematic scenario, temporary scenario-specific advantage/disadvantage, or play The Battle of Naboo and arbitarily allow a selection of ships that "should" be there to be played.

What I would like as a possible broad stroke is to come up with Atmospheric Combat , and decide how that affects each chassis.

4 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I can't believe I am going to type this, but gameplay >> fluff.

You can't price ships based on Frequency of Appearance if you actually want the ships to be balanced for gameplay.

What you need to do is write scenarios which emphasize the use of certain ships based on a thematic scenario, or play The Battle of Naboo and only allow the ships that should be there to be played.

What I would like as a possible broad stroke is to come up with Atmospheric Combat , and decide how that affects each chassis.

Apologies if I sound rude, but did you even read my post? I even said " On the whole, it makes sense for these ships to be underused, as XMG is assumed to take place all over the Galaxy" and emphasized that I would only want points adjustments in specific thematic events and you replied to this idea with "No, but let me suggest basically what you just said."

Just now, Averross said:

Apologies if I sound rude, but did you even read my post?

Reading and comprehension are 2 different skills.

In which case, I have no idea what you are trying to get at, because

Quote

where these ships are discounted as appropriate.

sounds like you want points adjustments to get them played.

To which my answer would be: DON'T adjust the points, just write the scenario.

And I'm talking specifically about scenarios and special events, not the overall game, where (as I said in the original post) it makes sense that they wouldn't be super-common.

This is the second time you've disagreed with me while suggesting basically what I just said.

Quote

where these ships are discounted as appropriate.

You even cut out the first half of the sentence which completely changes my meaning. 🤨

I mean. Then there’s the whole thing of Vader fighting anakin. Or biggs next to corran. That Ewing does fit into the new republic doesn’t it... lol.

Thankfully the new factions have split off a lot of the massively far time lapses.

46 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

gameplay >> fluff.

We did it, shut down the forums everybody, it's over.

27 minutes ago, Averross said:

And I'm talking specifically about scenarios and special events, not the overall game, where (as I said in the original post) it makes sense that they wouldn't be super-common.

This is the second time you've disagreed with me while suggesting basically what I just said.

You're saying, "They should be cheaper for this", Meanie is saying, "Make it so the rules favor these fighters (for example, during doing a trade fed blockade or something for Naboo, and a Y-wing run vs. Nantex) or they have to be included in the squad", which is the more fun version, because the lists aren't horribly out of balance.

I wanted to avoid hard restrictions because I think they make sense for very specific scenarios like The Battle of Yavin, but not necessarily for a Clone Wars battle that happens to be above Naboo. I even tried to cover my bases by saying that I wasn't sure what the exact numbers should be because I would still want it to be mostly balanced, but just favoring specific chassis for specific scenarios.

11 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

You're saying, "They should be cheaper for this", Meanie is saying, "Make it so the rules favor these fighters (for example, during doing a trade fed blockade or something for Naboo, and a Y-wing run vs. Nantex) or they have to be included in the squad", which is the more fun version, because the lists aren't horribly out of balance.

To this point, you can set up your own custom formats in the app. You're free to set up a scenario where Player 1 has to include x number of e.g., generic Auzitucks, that can be supplemented by "y" points of other ships. Player 2 can have different restrictions.

If you're making a custom scenario, you're also welcome to break any game rules you want under the guise of game conditions. For example, throw an extra 2 debris obstacles on the field, and rule that your atmospheric fighters ignore them because they're nimble enough to avoid them in atmo.

In short, the best way to do this is to just get together with friends at your kitchen table or local game store and hammer out something that sounds fun, then play it. It doesn't sound like tons of other people have thought through this specific type of scenario, so you'll get more (and better) feedback by trying it yourself

2 minutes ago, Averross said:

I wanted to avoid hard restrictions because I think they make sense for very specific scenarios like The Battle of Yavin, but not necessarily for a Clone Wars battle that happens to be above Naboo. I even tried to cover my bases by saying that I wasn't sure what the exact numbers should be.

The best teacher is experience. If no one else has worked at this specific angle before, then you might not get better feedback here than you would by just trying it.

You may be interested in looking up the Objectives games that were developed last year and used in Krayt Cup 4. Some of these might be amenable for fluffing up so that they could look like the type of game you're interested in.

3 hours ago, Averross said:

What do the following ships have in common?

• Auzituck Gunship
• N-1
• Nantex

They're all produced and primarily used by one specific planet. They're also pretty underused (At least the Nantex WILL be after the next points update).
There are some other underused ships that are not exclusive to, but are strongly associated with specific systems, like

• TIE Striker
• VCX-100 (At least the Ghost and its represented pilots)
• Fang Fighter
• (Arguably) Mining Guild TIE

My idea is this: Have thematic games/events set in specific systems where these ships are discounted as appropriate. On the whole, it makes sense for these ships to be underused, as XMG is assumed to take place all over the Galaxy, but on the other hand, N-1s and Nantexes were everywhere in their respective movies and I want to see that happen in the game once in awhile. I would love to see a Naboo battle where multiple N-1s are scrambled with one ARC-170 the Republic sent to support them, or a battle over Kashyyyk where Chewbacca didn't need much convincing to help out his Auzituck bros. The opposition would of course have to plan around the higher likelihood of encountering planetary fighters.

I'm not a big cruncher, so don't ask me what specific numbers should be seen, but I'd love to hear the community's thoughts on this.

Wait, the N-1 and Nantex are underutilized?

The Nantex is #9 and the N-1 is #10 on list fortress right now in the last month for chassis performance with strong usage numbers. We have no idea if the Nantex will be adjusted with the next points update, some people just hope for it. The best pilots for the Fang (Fenn, #16) and the Striker (Duchess, #28) are seeing solid play in their factions as compared to a number of other ships, and each is performing pretty well as a chassis (#18 and #35, respectively - better performance than, say, the B-Wing and U-Wing by percentage with decent usage numbers.) That's out of 70 ship types.

I'd rather purpose-built scenarios personally over discounts for events/games, but that's my take. It would only see changes to use for a ship or two if not fully thematic (i.e., "Battle of Scarif only" vs "Scarif-themed discounts".)

51 minutes ago, PaulRuddSays said:

It doesn't sound like tons of other people have thought through this specific type of scenario,

Well, ahem, I wrote an entire campaign based around various scenarios that had various listbuilding requirements. It's hanging out in the Epic Subforum, if anyone wants to look at it.

Some of the scenarios even involve "balanced imbalance," where one player may have more points to work with because the opposing player has an easier task or a required element (like turrets or a minefield) that doesn't have a price but provides an offensive/defensive benefit.

But to effectively write such a thing, you need to know where and how you are breaking the balance of the game. One place I would not break game balance is in the point costs of the ships and upgrades themselves, especially given that the developers spend A LOT of time getting that balance right in the first place.

And yes, sometimes it required running the battle 2 or 3 times to tweak the original idea into something that wasn't a landslide one way or the other.

Not that this makes me an expert or a game designer by any means, but I have had my hand in the scenario-design use-this-ship cookie jar.

And one more thing, which I am aware that I do in my scenarios:

I assume that players have equal access to all ships at all times. THIS IS UNTRUE. Many players have collections of various sizes, or may only collect a limited number of factions.

So when you start hijinx with the ships themselves, you have to be very careful.

So here's something I'd love to see:

Story Kits or Campaign Boxes. I'd name them after systems. How about a Clone Wars campaign box called "From Geonisis to Mustafar." A Rebels and Rogue One campaign box "From Lothal to Scarif." An Original Trilogy campaign box "From Yavin to Endor." A Sequel Trilogy campaign box "From Jakku to [wherever the next movie ends]."

Maybe these would have some alternate paint scheme ships, maybe not. Maybe they'd just be some upgrades and new pilots and a book of missions.

But that's not necessarily the same thing you're talking about.

//

Now, where you start to lose me is:

5 hours ago, Averross said:

My idea is this: Have thematic games/events set in specific systems where these ships are discounted as appropriate.

I'm not into it. Different prices for special tournament events doesn't feel right to me. I think a lot of folks onhere would say that prices on all the ships and upgrades could probably be better, but there's some amount of game balance here. Throwing stuff out-of-balance is just going to mess things up. I guess there's some number of folks who want theme tournaments, but it's probably better to do that by reducing ship pools (which is awkward and most folks hate it), or having extra prize support for lists which include thematic ships.

Say... I don't dislike that. Battle Of Endor theme battle, where anyone who brings a fully-Endor list gets some bonus prize. Double-sided Wedge and Soontir Fel (he was at Endor in lore, right? eh, whatever). Double-sided Emperor Palpatine and... maybe they'll finally make a crew-not-gunner Luke?

But even in campaigns, reducing prices is awkward. Folks still have to make up their lists somehow, and the more layers of stuff, the harder it is for FFG's already meager app skills to keep up.

Sounds fun for a themed event.

Discounted N1s, etc.

But I'd even consider some upgrades...

Outer Rim event with -2 pt. all illicts.

Coruscant event with -5 pt munitions.

On 12/3/2019 at 4:00 PM, Averross said:

And I'm talking specifically about scenarios and special events, not the overall game, where (as I said in the original post) it makes sense that they wouldn't be super-common.

This is the second time you've disagreed with me while suggesting basically what I just said.

Except your second quote seems to specifically say that TIE Phantoms should be priced higher for lore reason in the "overall game."