Why not just have them at the end of the coordinate chain? so a 5(b1)-1(b2) or a 4-2 option would seem to work fine, you would just never run 6 b2 squads.

2 hours ago, Ralgon said:

Back to our topic, I'm kinda in the camp with op. My main gripe though is no coordinate with an ai hamstring for a trooper unit... once we have special forces and heavy options I can't see them being any better than fluff armies (with the possible exception of the 500pnt format) until they at least get their own version of a oom.

Keep in mind: they don’t have coordinate, but they are a droid trooper, and B1 have coordinate: droid trooper, and B2 are droid troopers.

So if you include one or two, and the rest are B1, you could For example: drop Grevious’ Crush Them or Supreme Commander, order 2 B1 units, then have each coordinate to another unit with the chain terminating on the B2 droid(s).

Basically, since they can’t pass orders down the chain via their own coordinate, they have to be the ‘end’ of the chain.

Also, AI: Attack only applies if your able to successfully attack, since everything on the unit is range 2, except for the optional B2- HA they’ll behave relatively intelligently until a few turns in.

You really have to bend your brain almost to be a ‘programmer’ for your army.

22 minutes ago, joewrightgm said:

You really have to bend your brain almost to be a ‘programmer’ for your army.

Sounds like a feature, not a bug.

56 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

Sounds like a feature, not a bug.

It’s like... it was planned from the start!

*shocked pikachu face*

4 hours ago, Ralgon said:

Back to our topic, I'm kinda in the camp with op. My main gripe though is no coordinate with an ai hamstring for a trooper unit... once we have special forces and heavy options I can't see them being any better than fluff armies (with the possible exception of the 500pnt format) until they at least get their own version of a oom.

The problem isn't the unit it's the meta. The meta is about long ranged engagements. Look at Fleets, the same treatment.

2 hours ago, joewrightgm said:

Keep in mind: they don’t have coordinate, but they are a droid trooper, and B1 have coordinate: droid trooper, and B2 are droid troopers.

So if you include one or two, and the rest are B1, you could For example: drop Grevious’ Crush Them or Supreme Commander, order 2 B1 units, then have each coordinate to another unit with the chain terminating on the B2 droid(s).

Basically, since they can’t pass orders down the chain via their own coordinate, they have to be the ‘end’ of the chain.

Also, AI: Attack only applies if your able to successfully attack, since everything on the unit is range 2, except for the optional B2- HA they’ll behave relatively intelligently until a few turns in.

You really have to bend your brain almost to be a ‘programmer’ for your army.

See, but that's an issue. It makes "weak link" units because the chain must flow to the b2's last, and it means more point/ orders need to flow to troops to make them effective.

It also puts an dimishing efficiency cap of around 2 units on them (sorry all b2 army crowd) without having to spend extra on keeping them keeping on.

Also the "programmer" side of the army planning means they'll be doa competively, regardless of meta.

44 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

See, but that's an issue. It makes "weak link" units because the chain must flow to the b2's last, and it means more point/ orders need to flow to troops to make them effective.

It also puts an dimishing efficiency cap of around 2 units on them (sorry all b2 army crowd) without having to spend extra on keeping them keeping on.

Also the "programmer" side of the army planning means they'll be doa competively, regardless of meta.

I would agree they would be the weak link, that’s why I think a cap of two would be wise.

I certainly don’t think the all B2 army would be viable, I don’t know that anyone would argue that with a straight face.

”doa competitively” is a bold claim whenever someone says it, which I elect not to take seriously.

EDIT: the programming thing allows the droids amazing activation control, which is the one bright spot in their otherwise dire corps units, so I’m not seeing how having to plan around that is any different than any other day for a separatist player.

5 hours ago, joewrightgm said:

I would agree they would be the weak link, that’s why I think a cap of two would be wise.

I certainly don’t think the all B2 army would be viable, I don’t know that anyone would argue that with a straight face.

”doa competitively” is a bold claim whenever someone says it, which I elect not to take seriously.

EDIT: the programming thing allows the droids amazing activation control, which is the one bright spot in their otherwise dire corps units, so I’m not seeing how having to plan around that is any different than any other day for a separatist player.

It's usually a claim I wouldn't touch with a 10 ft barge pole, but barring tactics that don't require commands for them (ie suicide meat shields)or unreleased card/unit interactions that improve their effectiveness I stand by it...

1 hour ago, Ralgon said:

It's usually a claim I wouldn't touch with a 10 ft barge pole, but barring tactics that don't require commands for them (ie suicide meat shields)or unreleased card/unit interactions that improve their effectiveness I stand by it...

I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree on that point, because their limitations with getting orders are ultimately no different than B1s for separatists, so I don’t think they will be anymore or less difficult to utilize.

51 minutes ago, joewrightgm said:

I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree on that point, because their limitations with getting orders are ultimately no different than B1s for separatists, so I don’t think they will be anymore or less difficult to utilize.

If your commanders didn't want to be on the front lines with them and you didn't have to be fairly predictable with where your orders chain goes to I'd agree. As is, you're either telegraphing your "weak links" I mentioned earlier or you're running b2's without commands not to mention you're either risking melee or hampering b1's actions by keeping them in range to pass commands to the b2's.

Edit: one new option I did forget is to start spending extra points on that new comms card in the upgrade expansion, but didn't we already go over adding cost?

3 hours ago, Ralgon said:

If your commanders didn't want to be on the front lines with them and you didn't have to be fairly predictable with where your orders chain goes to I'd agree. As is, you're either telegraphing your "weak links" I mentioned earlier or you're running b2's without commands not to mention you're either risking melee or hampering b1's actions by keeping them in range to pass commands to the b2's.

Edit: one new option I did forget is to start spending extra points on that new comms card in the upgrade expansion, but didn't we already go over adding cost?

Currently, both grevious and Dooku want to be in lightsaber range of folks, so that’s currently not valid because we have no other commanders.

Also, B1 are getting the OOM droid which increases relay range, which is handy for armies without B2, so you’ll probably want to spend points on at least.

But at this point you don’t seem interested in changing your mind, and want to toss them in the bin before they even come out of the box so meh.

16 hours ago, R3dReVenge said:

The problem isn't the unit it's the meta. The meta is about long ranged engagements. Look at Fleets, the same treatment.

I want the crack you are smoking... Fleets are great. requires lots of thinking and people don't like doing that

2 hours ago, Cleto0 said:

I want the crack you are smoking... Fleets are great. requires lots of thinking and people don't like doing that

Can you show me the link / tournament lists that have been successful while using fleets?

4 hours ago, Cleto0 said:

21 hours ago, R3dReVenge said:

The problem isn't the unit it's the meta. The meta is about long ranged engagements. Look at Fleets, the same treatment.

I want the crack you are smoking... Fleets are great. requires lots of thinking and people don't like doing that

Fleets are fun, but in the world of range 4, three crits, and surpressive they really have no chance. **** Rebel players take 3 infantry now with no weapon attachments because of how outclassed they are. Throw in the fact that a lot of tables don't use that much terrain and they have no chance to do their job. Feels like more a self imposed handicap then anything.

Which is a shame, at 500 points you can see the work they do. Really shows that they have a lot of wasted potential. Maybe if FFG would add some more missions cards they could see some play? Or the next points change they could get some love.

20 minutes ago, RyantheFett said:

Fleets are fun, but in the world of range 4, three crits, and surpressive they really have no chance. **** Rebel players take 3 infantry now with no weapon attachments because of how outclassed they are. Throw in the fact that a lot of tables don't use that much terrain and they have no chance to do their job. Feels like more a self imposed handicap then anything.

Which is a shame, at 500 points you can see the work they do. Really shows that they have a lot of wasted potential. Maybe if FFG would add some more missions cards they could see some play? Or the next points change they could get some love.

Exactly!

A lot of people on here and in general like to state their feelings as facts (I'm guilty of this too). It's our nature. Fleets aren't good in the current meta. Based on the data, Fleets aren't good in the current meta.

The whole "people don't like thinking comment" is just someone trying to put others down for playing the game differently. It's also how these individuals try to make themselves feel better about choosing X or Y. I see it a lot when I visit the store. It's all about protecting their egos.

4 hours ago, R3dReVenge said:

Can you show me the link / tournament lists that have been successful while using fleets?

...

7 hours ago, Cleto0 said:

Fleets are great. requires lots of thinking and people don't like doing that

People don't like thinking in tournament settings. the unit is fine. people object to things that are hard. more or less, a path of least resistance.

2 hours ago, R3dReVenge said:

A lot of people on here and in general like to state their feelings as facts (I'm guilty of this too). It's our nature. Fleets aren't good in the current meta. Based on the data, Fleets aren't good in the current meta.

The whole "people don't like thinking comment" is just someone trying to put others down for playing the game differently. It's also how these individuals try to make themselves feel better about choosing X or Y. I see it a lot when I visit the store. It's all about protecting their egos.

oof. dude. I don't even play rebels. I have seen them played well and I have lost to them. I know they work just fine in conjunction with many units that ARE meta. What I am saying is that people have given rebel troopers the most time in play AND they play without thought, allowing people to perform better because they have to think less. It is the same reason why I memorize chess theory when preparing for a tournament. I can play 10-20 lines up to 10 moves without thought. That allows me to think better when we get off the beaten path 30 moves in. I am not putting anybody down, sorry you think that.

Just now, Cleto0 said:

oof. dude. I don't even play rebels.

*in tournaments

Fleets are not the same as B2s. If a fleets unit suffers 3-4 wounds its basically a write off, if b2s suffer the same it barely impacts their offense and will require several units to deal with b2s effectively.

Also fleets need an officer to not lose an action to a stiff breeze potshot. B2s are full actions or running unless ion is involved(even more rare than fleets)

The only thing they compare in is range, b2s have no mercy