Thinking about the future for CIS and I don't really know about the super battledroids.

The models are amazing, but I don't know how they will do in todays long range meta. 48p with an extra for 16, the anti tank gun looks expensive and is probably exhaust making it pretty useless. The standard heavy gun looks like it gives 3 red with no keywords, probably gonna cost 26p. This means you get a full squad of 5 for 90 points.

2hp per droid is nice, but the surgeless white dice means they die om average after 12 hits just like a full Stormtrooper squad.

Courage 2 is good on normal units, but droids can't be supressed. Sure if they are outside command bubble it makes them harder to panic, but it's very nieche.

The special thing they got is armor 1. However this only blocks one normal hit and this is pretty much a replacement for not improving cover by supression. If you are in heavy cover it gives you an extra block, but with range 2 you gonna have to keep moving so sitting parked in heavy cover is not gonna be possible all the time.

This brings out the next problem. Range 2 gun with no surge-hit. This gives them the same firepower of a fleet troopers squad, a unit that is cheaper and struggle in todays game.

Granted fleet troopers works in the new skirmish mode and I guess it's the same fate for super battledroids, kinda lame thought for such a cool unit.

So what do you guys think, am I missing something?

2 hours ago, jocke01 said:

Thinking about the future for CIS and I don't really know about the super battledroids.

The models are amazing, but I don't know how they will do in todays long range meta. 48p with an extra for 16, the anti tank gun looks expensive and is probably exhaust making it pretty useless. The standard heavy gun looks like it gives 3 red with no keywords, probably gonna cost 26p. This means you get a full squad of 5 for 90 points.

2hp per droid is nice, but the surgeless white dice means they die om average after 12 hits just like a full Stormtrooper squad.

Courage 2 is good on normal units, but droids can't be supressed. Sure if they are outside command bubble it makes them harder to panic, but it's very nieche.

The special thing they got is armor 1. However this only blocks one normal hit and this is pretty much a replacement for not improving cover by supression. If you are in heavy cover it gives you an extra block, but with range 2 you gonna have to keep moving so sitting parked in heavy cover is not gonna be possible all the time.

This brings out the next problem. Range 2 gun with no surge-hit. This gives them the same firepower of a fleet troopers squad, a unit that is cheaper and struggle in todays game.

Granted fleet troopers works in the new skirmish mode and I guess it's the same fate for super battledroids, kinda lame thought for such a cool unit.

So what do you guys think, am I missing something?

It's a close range unit. All factions have access to a range 1-2 corps unit and the developers chose the B2 for the separatists. This isn't a unit that you want to run more than 1-2 (look at fleets and the better snows).

I playtested them in a few games and I found that the B2's greatest strength is their resilience in cover. Since armor stacks with cover, you can essentially negate 3 hits if you're siting in heavy cover. Use them to how you would use fleets, hide around a corner and use their presence as (expensive) movement control.

Also the triple red weapon will be the go-to for these guys.

I can see taking 1-2 units depending on the list build, but I don't think they're going to be a Separtist staple.

32 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

It's a close range unit. All factions have access to a range 1-2 corps unit and the developers chose the B2 for the separatists. This isn't a unit that you want to run more than 1-2 (look at fleets and the better snows).

I playtested them in a few games and I found that the B2's greatest strength is their resilience in cover. Since armor stacks with cover, you can essentially negate 3 hits if you're siting in heavy cover. Use them to how you would use fleets, hide around a corner and use their presence as (expensive) movement control.

Also the triple red weapon will be the go-to for these guys.

I can see taking 1-2 units depending on the list build, but I don't think they're going to be a Separtist staple.

Yeah, they are like fleet troopers. In that case they will prob be shelfed for skirmish game. It's fine, but a bit boring. I think they need something to help them close the distance or hit harder when they do, just like fleets need. Snowtroopers have the very powerful steady, that would have been something.

A close range unit is fine, however I feel range 2 dosen't work vs all the range 4-5 firepower some lists have these days.

The B2s hit like a truck and have much better dice than the fleets. Fleets have 2 white (outside their heavy) whereas the B2s have 1 black and 1 white, meaning a better chance of getting a hit. With the B2s you may not actually get close enough to shoot. If your opponent is any good they will kill the B2s before they’re in striking range, but the value of the B2s is not in their attack. If they do attack it’s all gravy and they’ll more than likely kill their value in points if not more. The true vale of B2s is to present a high value target other than your B1s. This allows your B1s to secure objectives and shoot without much opposition. The B2s ability to effectively have cover 3 and two health each means they can take a lot before they go, and each attack they take is an attack not made on your weaker (more killable) B1s. And if by some chance your B2s get into range 2, your opponent will regret it since they can delete units with 3 red, 3 black and 3 white.

Also the B2’s othe Heavy may not tap. They have the new Cycle keyword and may limit you to shooting every other round. This is oddly better than tapping as on the off rounds every mini in the unit (including the heavy) can just use their native gun for 4 black and 4 white and it doesn’t require you to use an action. Of course whether it taps, or how Cycle works is all just speculation.

9 minutes ago, JediPartisan said:

The B2s hit like a truck and have much better dice than the fleets. Fleets have 2 white (outside their heavy) whereas the B2s have 1 black and 1 white, meaning a better chance of getting a hit.

Fleets surge to hit and B2's don't, which means the average damage per model is exactly the same.

4 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

Fleets surge to hit and B2's don't, which means the average damage per model is exactly the same.

Good point. And since fleets are renown for deleting units, same deal.

8 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

Fleets surge to hit and B2's don't, which means the average damage per model is exactly the same.

That also means that surge tokens can really help them out, and increase their output, while the same can't be said of Fleets.

42 minutes ago, JediPartisan said:

The B2s hit like a truck and have much better dice than the fleets. Fleets have 2 white (outside their heavy) whereas the B2s have 1 black and 1 white, meaning a better chance of getting a hit. With the B2s you may not actually get close enough to shoot. If your opponent is any good they will kill the B2s before they’re in striking range, but the value of the B2s is not in their attack. If they do attack it’s all gravy and they’ll more than likely kill their value in points if not more. The true vale of B2s is to present a high value target other than your B1s. This allows your B1s to secure objectives and shoot without much opposition. The B2s ability to effectively have cover 3 and two health each means they can take a lot before they go, and each attack they take is an attack not made on your weaker (more killable) B1s. And if by some chance your B2s get into range 2, your opponent will regret it since they can delete units with 3 red, 3 black and 3 white.

Also the B2’s othe Heavy may not tap. They have the new Cycle keyword and may limit you to shooting every other round. This is oddly better than tapping as on the off rounds every mini in the unit (including the heavy) can just use their native gun for 4 black and 4 white and it doesn’t require you to use an action. Of course whether it taps, or how Cycle works is all just speculation.

Yes cover 3 in heavy cover and cover 1 when supressed in the open and heavy in light cover with supression so feels pretty equal to other units unless there is alot of heavy cover around. (Granted armor is immune to sharpshooter).

Their dmg is actually the same as fleets due to lack of surge-hit. Surge tokens can of course boost dmg, allthough they lack the amazing cheap and powerful scattergun of the fleets.

At first sight, I felt that they could be the tanky corp unit vs the weak b1's however like the wookies, high hp dosen't help with such a crappy defense dice.

Hopefully they will synergies well with future commanders and upgrades, but a unit with the power of fleet troopers while being more expensive. I just don't see them working vs clones fire support and shoretrooper gunlines.

The models look amazing though 🙂. So hoping they peform better on the table than in my mind.

1 hour ago, jocke01 said:

Yeah, they are like fleet troopers. In that case they will prob be shelfed for skirmish game. It's fine, but a bit boring. I think they need something to help them close the distance or hit harder when they do, just like fleets need. Snowtroopers have the very powerful steady, that would have been something.

A close range unit is fine, however I feel range 2 dosen't work vs all the range 4-5 firepower some lists have these days.

Maybe the problem isn't B2s, but the strength and underpriced range 4-5 options.

17 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

Maybe the problem isn't B2s, but the strength and underpriced range 4-5 options.

hehe probably that yes

1 hour ago, Alpha17 said:

That also means that surge tokens can really help them out, and increase their output, while the same can't be said of Fleets.

This. All CIS units with the exception of Dooku become absolutely nightmarish with surge tokens. Even B1s with a surge token will outdamage a rebel Z6 squad without one.

While I have no idea whether B2s will be competitive, I do believe they fix alot of the problems that plague Fleet Troopers.

I do not believe the main problem with Fleets is the R1-2 shooting. Their shot is unbelievable powerful (best in the game for price). It is heavily dependent on terrain, unfortunately, but with a good LOS blocker, these guys would be scary and would be used, I feel, but are hamstrung by a few key issues:

1. Courage: This is the true Achilles's heel for the Fleets. One random shot that doesn't even do damage, and this entire unit becomes practically worthless. Strict orders helps, but that means you need them ordered. An officer helps, but that makes the unit pretty darn expensive, negating their cheap power. In short, their courage 1 is an absolute killer

2. Health: Fleets generally melt like any rebel unit, and don't have any way to mitigate (like Nimble or Defend) and need to move so can't take dodges. They are purely dependent on their health and dice. A normal squad has 5 minis behind surging white dice, which equates to 7.5 expected health, which simply isn't enough for a close assault squad.

Now let's look at the B2s. Let's say for argument sake their 3 red die weapon costs 26 points (10 points for heavy weapon. It's 12 for the Fleets Scattergun, which is pretty clearly better). This makes the squad 74 points, which is only 7 more than Fleets. The greatest strength of the Fleets is their ridiculous offense, but the B2s aren't far behind. Fleets expect 4.75 hits backed by Pierce 1, while the B2s expect 4.5. So clearly the Fleets win here, but if the B2s get a Surge token, which if you are running them you definitely need to get, their offense jumps up to 5.5 expected, which almost compensates for the lack of Pierce. The Fleets are still better, but not by too much.

Now I mentioned earlier that the Fleets biggest weaknesses are their courage and their health (if we ignore R2), and the B2s Excel in both areas. First, their courage is 2, and they are Droid troopers, making them virtually immune to suppression. These types of units desperately need to move and shoot most turns. This fixes the greatest weakness of the Fleets. Further, the expected health of a Fleet squad is 7.5. The Raw health of the B2s is 8, and the expected health is 9.6. This is a huge increase, and does NOT take armor into account. Armor is hard to judge, but needless to say it's a great keyword. Now, one random shot at the B2s at long range won't wreck them the way it would on the Fleets. Further, this health boost to the B2s allows their offensive dice to stay effective and alive longer than the Fleets, making them far more effective in the long run. Finally, even if you don't get an order to them, their keyword AI isn't too bad, since most times you won't have a shot anyways as you move up. I think having 4-5 B1s (with some having the R1-2 coordinate trooper) and 1-2 B2s will be viable. It may not be too shelf competitive, but many of the glaring weaknesses of the Fleets have been fixed here. I, for one, am excited to try then out.

I think the B2s will be fine but frankly worse than the Fleets were for the rebels. The issue I see for the CIS right now is they have some pretty expensive and awesome close range commanders. I find a lot of the game devolves into range 2 eventually so a unit that is strong 1-2 isn't too bad to have 1 or 2 of in a list, but you already have that unit in Dooku and Grievous. Compare that to the Rebels, where you have Jyn, Han, Leia who allow you to take them and a fleet trooper unit for around the same cost as just one CIS commander. Whenever I play fleets I try and go last/first on subsequent turns with them, which as a rebel player is very doable with generally easier high activation counts.

I think the timing on this units release is poor because of this. However I have no problem with the actual unit because a lot of the game is fought at closer range.

I've been testing them as just a naked unit. For 48 points you get 6hp and 3b3w. Keeping them in heavy cover or behind LOS as a cheap deterrent to any units that want to close in on my B1s or droidekas. Not sure they are worth the cost fully kitted out, mostly because they take up one of your corps slots which is currently needed for cheap B1s to give you activations and counter the heavy costs of the commanders.

I feel like they would be great at 500pts. Pretty much just move on the first turn and then they can camp behind heavy cover and just aim/shoot every turn after. Besides that I cannot see them being used so much at 800pts with shore troopers being the range 4 monsters they are.

Either they will add more objectives that require close range or we will have to wait for the next points changes. I know they said it would be nothing major, but maybe taking down Shores and tauntauns will be enough..................... I doubt it, but who knows.

2 hours ago, KingCHUD said:

mostly because they take up one of your corps slots which is currently needed for cheap B1s to give you activations and counter the heavy costs of the commanders.

this it the thing that annoys me the most, I don't see why the B2's weren't a Special forces unit. by making them a core unit all it does is restrict the possible configurations in Separatist army.

even once the B2's come out the Sep's wont really be able to make a viable army with more than 9 activations due to the fact that they don't have a cheaper commander or operative nor do they have a cheaper armoured unit.

If the B2's were a non-core unit it would open up a few more options.

I'm really hoping that Sep's can get cheap commanders, operatives & special forces sooner rather than later.

6 hours ago, thepopemobile100 said:

This. All CIS units with the exception of Dooku become absolutely nightmarish with surge tokens. Even B1s with a surge token will outdamage a rebel Z6 squad without one.

A surge token only allows a single conversion of a single surge die, right?

5 minutes ago, Mace Windu said:

I don't see why the B2's weren't a Special forces unit.

The competence and power-level of B2s vary wildly in media. In the films, they're mostly chunky B1s, and just as incompetent. In TCW I think they are similarly slightly more bulky cannon fodder. In Battlefront 2, they are an elite unit, a heavier than normal droid In flashbacks in the Mandalorian, they're terrifying, taking out civilians like nothing else, and in Republic Commando, a single super is a miniboss who takes the work of a whole Clone Commando team to fight.

FFG decided to split the difference, a fairly effective heavy corps, because they know that the SF slot will be filled with stuff like BX Commando droids and Magnaguards, who are not usually shown as too quirky and a few can go toe to toe with a jedi, while actually giving the CIS more Droid Trooper corps unit options, because without the B2s they may not have that many, and while I bet they will eventually get some iconic CIS aliens they need to spread out for that support because that'll throw off a lot of the special advantages of being mostly droid. They will definitely eventually get cheap commanaders though, Tactical Droids and Super Tacticals are a thing.

11 minutes ago, Mace Windu said:

this it the thing that annoys me the most, I don't see why the B2's weren't a Special forces unit. by making them a core unit all it does is restrict the possible configurations in Separatist army.

even once the B2's come out the Sep's wont really be able to make a viable army with more than 9 activations due to the fact that they don't have a cheaper commander or operative nor do they have a cheaper armoured unit.

If the B2's were a non-core unit it would open up a few more options.

I'm really hoping that Sep's can get cheap commanders, operatives & special forces sooner rather than later.

While I absolutely agree, I do feel that there is no way B2s were ever going to not be a Corps unit. They're the second most common troop type in CIS. But I would like to see B2-RPs (the jetpack version) as a special forces unit.

1 minute ago, Lochlan said:

But I would like to see B2-RPs (the jetpack version) as a special forces unit.

I was just thinking about that actually. Really shocked we haven't had a jetpack wave yet, thanks to DICE Battlefront II every faction has a jet trooper, and more than that have been fairly prominent in other media. Give us some infantry men with Jump, FFG!

54 minutes ago, SoonerTed said:

A surge token only allows a single conversion of a single surge die, right?

Yeah. With how many dice get rolled from B1, B2, and Grievous attacks it's extremely likely that one will show up.

50 minutes ago, Lochlan said:

While I absolutely agree, I do feel that there is no way B2s were ever going to not be a Corps unit. They're the second most common troop type in CIS. But I would like to see B2-RPs (the jetpack version) as a special forces unit.

Thematically yes I guess B2's should be a Core unit, I guess I was more meaning that Sep's as a faction needed a non-core unit to be printed for more variance in the list building.

If that meant printing something else as a special forces or a cheaper Vehicle unit instead of the B2's then that would have been preferred, as it stands now for at least the next several months or more the Sep's are quite restricted with the army building options, not a super great way to encourage people to get into the faction.

Personally Id be keen to see some Hailfire Droids, though I guess most would consider them to similar to the Droideka's but still.

1 hour ago, UnitOmega said:

I was just thinking about that actually. Really shocked we haven't had a jetpack wave yet, thanks to DICE Battlefront II every faction has a jet trooper, and more than that have been fairly prominent in other media. Give us some infantry men with Jump, FFG!

I've wanted this since day 1!

14 minutes ago, Mace Windu said:

Thematically yes I guess B2's should be a Core unit, I guess I was more meaning that Sep's as a faction needed a non-core unit to be printed for more variance in the list building.

If that meant printing something else as a special forces or a cheaper Vehicle unit instead of the B2's then that would have been preferred, as it stands now for at least the next several months or more the Sep's are quite restricted with the army building options, not a super great way to encourage people to get into the faction.

Personally Id be keen to see some Hailfire Droids, though I guess most would consider them to similar to the Droideka's but still.

Yeah, the current lack of a cheap-ish option outside of B1s is very frustrating, especially with how expensive everything else is.

I too would love to see the Hailfire, but I actually think it would be a Heavy option. But that brings up one of the things I love most about CIS: the sheer breadth of options they have that would work for this game. They have at least half a dozen options in both Support and Heavy.

2 hours ago, Lochlan said:

I too would love to see the Hailfire, but I actually think it would be a Heavy option. But that brings up one of the things I love most about CIS: the sheer breadth of options they have that would work for this game. They have at least half a dozen options in both Support and Heavy.

The hailfire, the spider droid, the gunship, and the NR-N99 Tank Droid are the main contenders for heavies. My money is on the Tank Droid since FFG likes their units to be similar and that tank would be the troop carrier. Think GAR will get the gunship carrier first, but that is just guessing based of past releases.

As for support I am hoping for the dwarf spider droids.