Ships in a wing are considered to have executed a maneuver of the same difficulty as the wing leader.

Do they also execute white tallon rolls if Ello Asty is their wing leader?

15 minutes ago, Des Darklighter said:

Ships in a wing are considered to have executed a maneuver of the same difficulty as the wing leader.

Do they also execute white tallon rolls if Ello Asty is their wing leader?

From the Moving Wingmates portion page 5 of the Epic Battles Rules Reference.

"After it is placed in formation, a wingmate is treated as having fully
executed the maneuver on the wing leader’s dial. This includes the speed,
color, and bearing of the wing leader’s maneuver."

So no. For Ello they're white as long as Ello doesn't have more than 2 stress, for the rest of the wing the Tallon Rolls are red.

By my understanding, this also means that an R4 Astromech on a Wing Leader and/or Wingmate would only modify the difficulty of the leader's dial for that particular leader/wingmate's maneuver. For example:

• Luke Skywalker with R2 Astromech is leading a wing of 3 other X-Wings. The lead two wingmates carry an R4 Astromech . The trailing X-Wing has an R3 Astromech . All four X-Wings are stressed, because of maneuvers from their previous round...
  1. Luke reveals and executes a White Hard-2 maneuver. He keeps his stress.
  2. The first two wingmates each then execute the White Hard-2 maneuver on Luke's dial, which their R4 Astromechs turn blue. They clear stress, and may perform actions as desired.
  3. The last wingmate executes Luke's White Hard-2 maneuver, keeps stress, and performs no actions.

19 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:

By my understanding, this also means that an R4 Astromech on a Wing Leader and/or Wingmate would only modify the difficulty of the leader's dial for that particular leader/wingmate's maneuver. For example:

• Luke Skywalker with R2 Astromech is leading a wing of 3 other X-Wings. The lead two wingmates carry an R4 Astromech . The trailing X-Wing has an R3 Astromech . All four X-Wings are stressed, because of maneuvers from their previous round...
  1. Luke reveals and executes a White Hard-2 maneuver. He keeps his stress.
  2. The first two wingmates each then execute the White Hard-2 maneuver on Luke's dial, which their R4 Astromechs turn blue. They clear stress, and may perform actions as desired.
  3. The last wingmate executes Luke's White Hard-2 maneuver, keeps stress, and performs no actions.

Yes for the wingleader part. I don't think wingmates benefit from having R4 equipped themselves, due to the new "timing" of continual effects being "while you execute" (F U Cova Nel ruling and subsequent rules rewrite... 😠 ), since they're treated as having fully executed what is on the wingleader's dial when they are placed in their new position.

For reference:

2 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Yes for the wingleader part. I don't think wingmates benefit from having R4 equipped themselves, due to the new "timing" of continual effects being "while you execute" (F U Cova Nel ruling and subsequent rules rewrite... 😠 ), since they're treated as having fully executed what is on the wingleader's dial when they are placed in their new position.

Hmm. Definitely a gray area in the rules... I'd generally agree that unless we're told to do procedure A, we don't do it. The ships are re-positioned without actually executing a maneuver; rather, they're simply treated "as if" they performed that maneuver.

I wonder if this means a Wing that is affected by Leia Organa (Rebel) would all perform white K-Turns and such, or just the leader...?

@emeraldbeacon Link to the Ruling. I edited it into the post you replied to but for convenience. Rebel Leia is covered.

But is a Wing (leader and wingmates taken together) treated as a single ship's activation/execute maneuver step, or does each ship activate separately, on its own? And is Rebel Leia's effect persistent for ship A's dial, when ship B is moving? It's just a gray area in this one play mode, that isn't clearly covered in the rules.

On 12/1/2019 at 12:13 AM, emeraldbeacon said:

But is a Wing (leader and wingmates taken together) treated as a single ship's activation/execute maneuver step, or does each ship activate separately, on its own? And is Rebel Leia's effect persistent for ship A's dial, when ship B is moving? It's just a gray area in this one play mode, that isn't clearly covered in the rules.

I'll just link the discussion we had about this in the other thread for reference.

5 hours ago, Lyianx said:

I'll just link the discussion we had about this in the other thread for reference.

So basically... we don't know?

Not really. There's a good point that depending on the wording, R4 astromechs should be irrelevant as if you've 'fully executed' the manoeuvre, then you've passed the 'check stress' step and shouldn't be picking up stress in the first place.

4 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

if you've 'fully executed' the manoeuvre, then you've passed the 'check stress' step

Actually no. Checking if you've fully executed or not happens before the Check Difficulty step.

RR pg 14

Quote

A ship fully executes a maneuver if it does not overlap a ship. If a ship executes a maneuver and overlaps a ship, it must partially execute that maneuver by performing the following steps:

* Even if a ship partially executes a maneuver, it is still treated as having executed a maneuver of the indicated speed, bearing, and difficulty .

This is why even when you overlap and have to partially execute, you still loose or gain stress according to the maneuver difficulty.

4 hours ago, Lyianx said:

Actually no. Checking if you've fully executed or not happens before the Check Difficulty step.

That would be an inconsistent reading of the rules. I would say that checking for overlap happens during the maneuver, but checking for fully/partially executing the maneuver doesn't happen until after the Check Difficulty sub step. Most will argue that the timing for a maneuver's Fully Execute check happens after the check difficulty step because of this passage on p13 under the entry for Maneuver :

"A ship can Execute a maneuver by resolving the following steps in order:
1. Maneuver Ship : ...
2. Check Difficulty : ..."

This is generally taken to mean that you have not "executed" the maneuver until you complete both of these steps. Then there's the very first bullet point just below those steps:

"• While executing a maneuver, if a ship would be placed at the end of the template on top of another object , it has overlapped that object."

This makes it clear that a determination of overlap happens during the maneuver by using the while timing keyword. However, neither this passage nor the passage quoted by @Lyianx from p14 under Overlap explicitly outlines the timing for what fully encompasses 'executing a maneuver' so I default back to the basic entry for Maneuver on p13. I would actually argue that the entirety of the Overlap steps take place after the Check Difficulty step of executing a maneuver and that the quoted bullet from p14 functions as a reminder that you don't ignore the dialed maneuver just because you ended up placing the ship in a different spot.

This interpretation is reinforced by precedent with the way that all 'after executing' and 'after fully executing' type abilities are commonly used. Deviating from this interpretation would make many abilities function in a completely different way: many would be vastly overpowered or niche use only if 'fully/partially executed maneuver' was checked before the Check Difficulty sub step of maneuvering.

9 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Not really. There's a good point that depending on the wording, R4 astromechs should be irrelevant as if you've 'fully executed' the manoeuvre, then you've passed the 'check stress' step and shouldn't be picking up stress in the first place.

Not sure which post you're disagreeing with there (or by 'not really' you could be agreeing with emerald's 'we don't know?')

I have to raise the point that having more ways to clear stress is relevant because ships in a wing can easily pick up stress in many ways besides red maneuvers, so we would hope that there's also a convenient way to clear that stress. Other ways to get stress besides maneuvers include Debris Clouds, card abilities, scenarios, and possibly environments.