http://jedimorningfire.blogspot.com/2019/11/of-jedi-vidoe-games-and-fallen-orders.html

A few different bits from Jedi: Fallen Order, such as stat blocks for BD units and the S-161 "Stinger" XL yacht, species mechanics for the Abednado, and the game's protagonist Cal Kestis built as a Heroic Level player-character with a new Force power.

37 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

http://jedimorningfire.blogspot.com/2019/11/of-jedi-vidoe-games-and-fallen-orders.html

A few different bits from Jedi: Fallen Order, such as stat blocks for BD units and the S-161 "Stinger" XL yacht, species mechanics for the Abednado, and the game's protagonist Cal Kestis built as a Heroic Level player-character with a new Force power.

Do the BD units have a talent for "Being Equal Cute and Dramatically Awesome" ? Because if not, you failed in their design

4 hours ago, KungFuFerret said:

Do the BD units have a talent for "Being Equal Cute and Dramatically Awesome" ? Because if not, you failed in their design

Presence 2 and narrative.

Besides, I figure given the law of averages, there's going to be BD Units that might be puppy-dog cute but have the 'tude of a surly old junkyard guard dog.

Looks good. I like Cal's and BD's stats.

Looks like you need to shift the decade upgrade, not sure why decade would be before month and year.

Also the final strength upgrade doesn't have a link

9 hours ago, Varlie said:

Looks good. I like Cal's and BD's stats.

Looks like you need to shift the decade upgrade, not sure why decade would be before month and year.

Also the final strength upgrade doesn't have a link

Huh, could have sworn there was a link and things were in the right place. Thanks for catching those, and I'll update the power ASAP.

Edit: And both the blog post and zip file have the updated graphic showing the final Strength upgrade connection, proper placement of the Duration upgrades for Month and Decade. Thanks again for the catch!

5 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Huh, could have sworn there was a link and things were in the right place. Thanks for catching those, and I'll update the power ASAP.

Edit: And both the blog post and zip file have the updated graphic showing the final Strength upgrade connection, proper placement of the Duration upgrades for Month and Decade. Thanks again for the catch!

Just checked both (pic and pdf) you have Decade coming before Year still.

Also, I'm imagining since it doesn't say otherwise, you intend to allow the Duration upgrades to be activated multiple times? I would imagine so, but thought I'd clarify.

Nice work.

EDIT: Also, the pdf for the Mantis cuts off the right side of the stats (SST and Armor) right after "Luxury" in the title

If we are allowing Bind to be Stasis, I’m just curious how you handle silhouette? Since the power doesn’t specify a difference, binding a loth cat and a star fighter into stasis is the same single pip cost, have you figured out a way to handle this? (Discipline check against silhouette?)

12 hours ago, Silverburst3 said:

If we are allowing Bind to be Stasis, I’m just curious how you handle silhouette? Since the power doesn’t specify a difference, binding a loth cat and a star fighter into stasis is the same single pip cost, have you figured out a way to handle this? (Discipline check against silhouette?)

Well, if you go strictly by the programmed logic of the video game, you simply can't use Bind/Statis on vehicles, as there's several points in the game where freezing a vehicle in place would have been quite handy for Cal. But that's more a case of Respawn's developer team not coding that ability into the game.

As you said, strictly by RAW in both the F&D core rulebook and Rise of the Separatists (which reprints the Bind power), there's nothing saying that Bind can't be used on things larger than silhouette 1, or that silhouette in any way, shape, or form plays a role in determining what can and can't be affected by the power.

I'll admit that Bind may not be the best fit, but since I'd already created one homebrew power (Psychometry), I really didn't want to add a second, especially since the basic Bind power works "well enough" to account for what Wookieepedia calls "Force Stasis" and what Cal can accomplish early in the game (slowing down a single piece of large machinery or a lone opponent) pretty well. Though in a lot of cases, range is going to be a limiting factor as not many of the larger vehicles are really going to be within Bind's range. As a GM call, I'd say that using Bind on a moving vehicle uses the same difficulty that the vehicle's pilot would use for their Piloting check in a chase scene. It's possible to accomplish on smaller vehicles that aren't moving too fast (speeder bikes or bounty hunters with jet packs), but incredibly difficult to pull off against things like AT-ATs, shuttlecraft, or even TIE fighters.

Or, if the GM is really nervous about it, they could house-rule the Strength upgrades so that it has either the disorient effect or can be used to affect targets that are larger than silhouette 1 (increasing by 1 per upgrade purchased), while in the process house-ruling the basic power to only affect targets of a max silhouette of 1.

5 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Well, if you go strictly by the programmed logic of the video game, you simply can't use Bind/Statis on vehicles, as there's several points in the game where freezing a vehicle in place would have been quite handy for Cal. But that's more a case of Respawn's developer team not coding that ability into the game.

As you said, strictly by RAW in both the F&D core rulebook and Rise of the Separatists (which reprints the Bind power), there's nothing saying that Bind can't be used on things larger than silhouette 1, or that silhouette in any way, shape, or form plays a role in determining what can and can't be affected by the power.

I'll admit that Bind may not be the best fit, but since I'd already created one homebrew power (Psychometry), I really didn't want to add a second, especially since the basic Bind power works "well enough" to account for what Wookieepedia calls "Force Stasis" and what Cal can accomplish early in the game (slowing down a single piece of large machinery or a lone opponent) pretty well. Though in a lot of cases, range is going to be a limiting factor as not many of the larger vehicles are really going to be within Bind's range. As a GM call, I'd say that using Bind on a moving vehicle uses the same difficulty that the vehicle's pilot would use for their Piloting check in a chase scene. It's possible to accomplish on smaller vehicles that aren't moving too fast (speeder bikes or bounty hunters with jet packs), but incredibly difficult to pull off against things like AT-ATs, shuttlecraft, or even TIE fighters.

Or, if the GM is really nervous about it, they could house-rule the Strength upgrades so that it has either the disorient effect or can be used to affect targets that are larger than silhouette 1 (increasing by 1 per upgrade purchased), while in the process house-ruling the basic power to only affect targets of a max silhouette of 1.

Lots to think about! My current PC is heavily invested in Bind so when i saw this thread the little META gamer in me wondered what all I could achieve haha

2 hours ago, Silverburst3 said:

Lots to think about! My current PC is heavily invested in Bind so when i saw this thread the little META gamer in me wondered what all I could achieve haha

If nothing else, talk with your GM to see what they will or won't allow.

On 12/8/2019 at 8:37 PM, Silverburst3 said:

If we are allowing Bind to be Stasis, I’m just curious how you handle silhouette? Since the power doesn’t specify a difference, binding a loth cat and a star fighter into stasis is the same single pip cost, have you figured out a way to handle this? (Discipline check against silhouette?)

To Donovan's point, with Stasis not working on vehicles, simply only allow the Stasis use of Bind to be used at personal scale. Immediately removes the problem, and still allows it's use on larger opponents like Ogdo's (who would be of a larger silhouette). You could also restrict it to silhouette 1 and have a special upgrade allowing it to affect a larger silhouette to match the skill point upgrade in the game as well if you wanted to, though I think that it would be fine to skip this particular detail.

1 minute ago, Kyla said:

To Donovan's point, with Stasis not working on vehicles, simply only allow the Stasis use of Bind to be used at personal scale. Immediately removes the problem, and still allows it's use on larger opponents like Ogdo's (who would be of a larger silhouette). You could also restrict it to silhouette 1 and have a special upgrade allowing it to affect a larger silhouette to match the skill point upgrade in the game as well if you wanted to, though I think that it would be fine to skip this particular detail.

I've gotten pretty fair in the game, and there are a few beasties that go well into Silhouette 3 (and one for whom a case could be made for Silhouette 4) that Cal's Stasis ability can be used on. So I'm not sure some sort of "can only affect Silhouette of X or lower" is really applicable. For those bigger threats, it could very well be the GM making it some sort of opposed check (which is permitted per the F&D sidebar are about resisting Force powers) to account for the increased trouble of stopping the momentum of something that big/massive for even a few seconds. Especially for Cal, who probably doesn't really go past Force Rating 3 in terms of raw Force strength, and in this system is instead spending his XP on purchasing upgrades to his various Force powers.

5 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

For those bigger threats, it could very well be the GM making it some sort of opposed check (which is permitted per the F&D sidebar are about resisting Force powers) to account for the increased trouble of stopping the momentum of something that big/massive for even a few seconds.

This is my opinion as well, hence why suggested making the power only usable at personal scale. This effectively means that due to the unique nature of the rules, any silhouette sized creature (which uses Wounds) could be affected normally (using your suggestion of an opposed check if desired) but vehicles (which use planetary scale thanks to Hull) would not be affected by the power - just like in the game. It would also allow the user to manipulate blaster shots (as they are planetary scale and do not use Hull to resist damage) without needing to apply any additional rules.

2 hours ago, Kyla said:

This is my opinion as well, hence why suggested making the power only usable at personal scale. This effectively means that due to the unique nature of the rules, any silhouette sized creature (which uses Wounds) could be affected normally (using your suggestion of an opposed check if desired) but vehicles (which use planetary scale thanks to Hull) would not be affected by the power - just like in the game. It would also allow the user to manipulate blaster shots (as they are planetary scale and do not use Hull to resist damage) without needing to apply any additional rules.

That in itself opens up the problem of a PC able to use Bind on something like a Rancor (Silhouette 3 but still operates at personal scale), but unable to affect a speeder bike (smaller end of Silhouette 2). Unless you start making exceptions on a case-by-case basis for which vehicles would qualify to be affected by Bind, which ultimately defeats the purpose of the distinction in the first place.

Plus, now that I think about it, we do see another instance of what could well be Bind being used on a vehicle, and that being in Star Wars Rebel's second season, where the Fifth Brother and Second Sister both try to stop the Phantom (Silhouette 3 vehicle) from fleeing, and come fairly close to succeeding until plot convivence allows the Rebels to make their escape.

1 hour ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

That in itself opens up the problem of a PC able to use Bind on something like a Rancor (Silhouette 3 but still operates at personal scale), but unable to affect a speeder bike (smaller end of Silhouette 2). Unless you start making exceptions on a case-by-case basis for which vehicles would qualify to be affected by Bind, which ultimately defeats the purpose of the distinction in the first place.

Plus, now that I think about it, we do see another instance of what could well be Bind being used on a vehicle, and that being in Star Wars Rebel's second season, where the Fifth Brother and Second Sister both try to stop the Phantom (Silhouette 3 vehicle) from fleeing, and come fairly close to succeeding until plot convivence allows the Rebels to make their escape.

Fair enough, but in keeping with the flavor of Fallen Order, I think it's okay to do, and you can say that what was done in Rebel's was a use of Move, to hold them, as that is designed for Silhouette interaction. The only thing that then doesn't work logistically is Bind's use on blaster bolts, but, then again, within the confines of Jedi: Fallen Order that exists as a problem as well.

Be advised, if I was talking about allowing this in my game, I would not use Bind at all, I'm merely commenting as the thread has developed, in specific regard to the video game.

I have already house ruled Cal's powers (freezing enemies/blaster bolts and psychometry) in my game long before Jedi:Fallen Order came out (because of Kylo in TFA for the freeze and psychometry because of an NPC being able to "read" an objects history as a plot hook). For my own use, the "freeze" mechanic is a reverse use of Move (essentially countering an objects kinetics force for a time) and psychometry being an inverse use of Farseeing (reading the past instead of the present).

14 hours ago, Kyla said:

For my own use, the "freeze" mechanic is a reverse use of Move (essentially countering an objects kinetics force for a time)...

The problem with that approach is that it makes Move (which is already in the running for most broken Force power in the game due to the sheer damage output that is possible) even more powerful than it already is.

Not to mention that "holding things in place" is pretty much the entire reason for Bind's existence, a power which only does damage if the user used black pips to generate their Force points, or they employ the Control upgrade that inflicts strain if the target takes an action. Yes, it's the power that covers Vader's Force choke, but it's not just that, which is something I think a number of players and GMs have a tendency to overlook.

3 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

The problem with that approach is that it makes Move (which is already in the running for most broken Force power in the game due to the sheer damage output that is possible) even more powerful than it already is.

That's fair, but I really don't mind Move being a "catch-all, must have" for Force Users, but that's mostly because I'm a WEG player from back in the day were Control (Enhance), Sense, and Alter (Move) were the three Force Skills and everything else was a permutation using one (or more) of those skills. It's easy to find problems with any ruling, so at some point you just have to settle on what you want to do.

3 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Not to mention that "holding things in place" is pretty much the entire reason for Bind's existence, a power which only does damage if the user used black pips to generate their Force points, or they employ the Control upgrade that inflicts strain if the target takes an action. Yes, it's the power that covers Vader's Force choke, but it's not just that, which is something I think a number of players and GMs have a tendency to overlook.

That's true, and in my next campaign I'll probably use Bind with the house rule it only works at personal scale since Jedi: Fallen Order kind of expanded on Kylo's use of it, but like I said, I made the call back when the Force Awakens came out, and I really don't want to change the ruling after all this time in the campaign. That doesn't seem fair to players that have made XP decisions on the previous ruling.

Great job @Donovan Morningfire , I enjoy your take on the stats!

Quick question for everyone: I only have a couple of the F&D supplements. Does FFG have any attachment or mod that allows dual sabers to become a double bladed lightsaber as a maneuver (or an incidental, if you have the upgrade a la the flourish skill point in the game).

Also, does anyone have any ideas for adjusting the specs of the double bladed lightsaber as seen in this game (crowd control, lower damage to single targets) I think this definitely portrays how Darth Maul fights in Ep1 better (when dueling a single Jedi, he uses a single blade, and doesn't use the double blade until there are multiple targets) since Linked 1 is actually the opposite of this idea (though I guess it can portray this if you're only fighting minion groups)

3 hours ago, oneeyedmatt87 said:

Great job @Donovan Morningfire , I enjoy your take on the stats!

Quick question for everyone: I only have a couple of the F&D supplements. Does FFG have any attachment or mod that allows dual sabers to become a double bladed lightsaber as a maneuver (or an incidental, if you have the upgrade a la the flourish skill point in the game).

Also, does anyone have any ideas for adjusting the specs of the double bladed lightsaber as seen in this game (crowd control, lower damage to single targets) I think this definitely portrays how Darth Maul fights in Ep1 better (when dueling a single Jedi, he uses a single blade, and doesn't use the double blade until there are multiple targets) since Linked 1 is actually the opposite of this idea (though I guess it can portray this if you're only fighting minion groups)

Given that a dual lightsaber has very specific requirements for attachments and crystals I think it would be problematic for one to do that unless both sabers were identical.

As for official attachment, not that I'm aware, though I don't yet have Gadget's and Gear so I can say for that one.

7 hours ago, oneeyedmatt87 said:

Great job @Donovan Morningfire , I enjoy your take on the stats!

Quick question for everyone: I only have a couple of the F&D supplements. Does FFG have any attachment or mod that allows dual sabers to become a double bladed lightsaber as a maneuver (or an incidental, if you have the upgrade a la the flourish skill point in the game).

Also, does anyone have any ideas for adjusting the specs of the double bladed lightsaber as seen in this game (crowd control, lower damage to single targets) I think this definitely portrays how Darth Maul fights in Ep1 better (when dueling a single Jedi, he uses a single blade, and doesn't use the double blade until there are multiple targets) since Linked 1 is actually the opposite of this idea (though I guess it can portray this if you're only fighting minion groups)

Thanks.

On the first one, not that I've seen. Back in the earlier days of F&D I played around with a couple ideas to simulate the "link two basic lightsabers into a double-bladed lightsaber or vice versa" since Asajj Ventress had done that a few times, with her lightsabers being specifically designed to operate either as individual 'sabers or a saberstaff. But as Jareth noted, the whole bit of double-bladed lightsabers having specific rules on attachments was one of a few problems. I did try to approach it from the angle of "double-bladed ligthsaber that can split in two, but there's ultimately not real benefit to doing that, since they'd be be identical basic lightsabers and attacking with two weapons is just a worst version of the Linked quality.

As for altering the stats of the double-bladed lightsaber, I probably wouldn't. I've always been of the opinion that using "well that's how they did it in the video game!" isn't always the best guideline for informing RPG rules. Cal's mowing through goons is best handled via the minion group rules, with him using a combination of damage, the Linked 1 quality, and triggering a crit to take out multiple minions at once. There's also the Sarlacc Sweep talent in Shii-Cho Knight, which provides a mild variation of autofire (you can't hit the same target twice) which I think could also work.

With Darth Maul in TPM, the only reason he used his single blade against Qui-Gon in their first encounter was that Lucas wanted (at the time of filming) to save the surprise of this bad guy having a double-bladed lightsaber until the third act. Sadly, that surprise got ruined in the trailers. Plus, Maul continued to use both blades against Kenobi when the Naboo duel became a one-on-one contest, and was forced to use a single blade after Kenobi cut the hilt of Maul's lightsaber in half.