I had this idea of using an ISD2 or Cymoon to cover 2 Kuats a few waves ago. The idea was to utilize the dangerous arcs of the longer range ISD to 'herd' the opponent's fleet into the range of the Kuats. Forcing the opponent's fleet to choose between having to fight Kuats or running past the ISD was pretty good in theory but between the high cost in points, lack of upgrades, and 3 ISDs getting in each other's way it was never really better than a two ISD list. So when I saw the preview for the Onager, it seemed time to revisit the strategy:

Name: Motti Meme Cannon
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault:
Defense:
Navigation:

Onager Star Destroyer (110)

• Admiral Motti (24)
• Captain Needa (2)
• Strategic Adviser (4)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
• Cataclysm (5)
• Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5) or Super Heavy Composite Beam Turbolasers (7)?
= 157 /159 Points

ISD Kuat (112)

• Darth Vader (1)
• External Racks (3)

• Leading Shots (4)
• Reinforced Blast Doors (5)
= 120 Points

ISD Kuat (112)

• Hondo (2)
• External Racks (3)

• Leading Shots (4)
• Reinforced Blast Doors (5)
= 121 Points

Total Points: 398/400

The Onager provides suppressive fire that prevents the opponent's fleet from massing or staying at extreme ranges. However it is hard to close the distance on the Onager when there are 34 hit points of ISD Linebackers in the way. Between the two super weapons, I am leaning towards the OBPC since it can be used to snipe Quasars and other smaller carriers, constrain squadron deployment, and outrange boosted coms (unless they want the squads to make a one way trip). The Meme Cannon Onager build with OBPC should be able to hit turn 1 with the Hondo + Cataclysm + Needa + TRC guaranteed crit combo. Vadering Needa, SA, or even Motti can be used to fish for rerolls. The list is otherwise very lean and theoretical efficient with the two Kuats averaging a total of 8.26 damage frontal or 10.9 damage with double arc after accounting for accuracies against a single brace token.

Keeping the Kuats at slow speeds to guard the Meme Cannon or charging the enemy fleet is going to depend on enemy fleet composition.

The Kuats could use some better dice control. As things stand, you only have one source of rerolls for one of them, and it requires not using Hondo. It's not a matter of if luck will cost you games, but when.

I'd start by dropping Strategic Adviser, because he's illegal anyway. Then I recommend downgrading to a Testbed and sticking Veteran Gunners or Ordnance Experts on it. The freed up points can go into ECM and Leading Shots on the Kuats so they don't get eaten by large dice pools (like an SSD.)

What's your plan for an objective spread?

Onager-class Star Destroyer (110)
• Captain Needa (2)
• Fire-Control Team (2)
• Weapons Battery Techs (5)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
• Superheavy Composite Beam Turbolaser (7)
• Rakehell (4)
Total 137

Onager-class Testbed (96)
• Intel Officer (7)
• Veteran Gunners (5)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Nav Team (4)
• Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5)
• Rakehell (4)
Total 125

These would be my recommendations on Onager builds.
TRC and WBT are great if your running the SCBT. Forcing as many Crits as possible with this Superweapon is great.
IO, VG and OE are great if your running OBPC. If red results are crap, just Veteran Gunners, then use Ordnance Experts to fix up your Black Dice. Just trying to get big damage pool for Intel Officer.

Just my opinion.

4 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

The Kuats could use some better dice control. As things stand, you only have one source of rerolls for one of them, and it requires not using Hondo. It's not a matter of if luck will cost you games, but when.

I'd start by dropping Strategic Adviser, because he's illegal anyway. Then I recommend downgrading to a Testbed and sticking Veteran Gunners or Ordnance Experts on it. The freed up points can go into ECM and Leading Shots on the Kuats so they don't get eaten by large dice pools (like an SSD.)

Oh I forgot to add the Leading shots on the Kuats so I'll go fix that, they are included in the score Tally. Sorry first time doing this manually outside of a fleet builder. Also why is Strategic Advisor illegal? I thought that the Onager was a large in the original announcement? Is it medium?

Ah I misread the card, must have gotten confused with the star hawk's 2 officer slots.

Quote

What's your plan for an objective spread?

I was hoping for help with that.

18 minutes ago, antisocialmunky said:

Oh I forgot to add the Leading shots on the Kuats so I'll go fix that, they are included in the score Tally. Sorry first time doing this manually outside of a fleet builder. Also why is Strategic Advisor illegal? I thought that the Onager was a large in the original announcement? Is it medium?

Ah I misread the card, must have gotten confused with the star hawk's 2 officer slots.

I was hoping for help with that.

Advanced Gunnery for the Onager? they will never pick it, but double ignition arc on same target would be funny.

3 hours ago, grunnax93 said:

Onager-class Star Destroyer (110)
• Captain Needa (2)
• Fire-Control Team (2)
• Weapons Battery Techs (5)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
• Superheavy Composite Beam Turbolaser (7)
• Rakehell (4)
Total 137

Onager-class Testbed (96)
• Intel Officer (7)
• Veteran Gunners (5)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Nav Team (4)
• Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5)
• Rakehell (4)
Total 125

These would be my recommendations on Onager builds.
TRC and WBT are great if your running the SCBT. Forcing as many Crits as possible with this Superweapon is great.
IO, VG and OE are great if your running OBPC. If red results are crap, just Veteran Gunners, then use Ordnance Experts to fix up your Black Dice. Just trying to get big damage pool for Intel Officer.

Just my opinion.

Thanks for you suggestions!

I really like the Testbed Onager idea with IO to snipe tokens from long range. I'm not a huge fan of VG but I suppose anything can help 4-5 red dice.

As far as the OSD, what do you think about using Sunder to snipe Boosted Coms or a ECM?

46 minutes ago, grunnax93 said:

Advanced Gunnery for the Onager? they will never pick it, but double ignition arc on same target would be funny.

I was thinking Ion Cannon and Minefields since they help do damage beyond long range. Surprise attack would be good because you can try for a full powered shot against a slow/navigate raid token ship.

4 minutes ago, antisocialmunky said:

I was thinking Ion Cannon and Minefields since they help do damage beyond long range.

those could be good just to lock up the sides and force your opponent down a canal which the Kuats charge/block with the Onager providing fire support.

I fixed the list with the correct upgrade slots and grunnax93 's suggestions:

Quote

Name: Motti Meme Cannon
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault: Suprise Attack
Defense: Rift Ambush
Navigation: Minefields

ISD Kuat Refit (112)
• Admiral Motti (24)
• Strategic Adviser (4)
• Reinforced Blast Doors (5)
• Leading Shots (4)
• External Racks (3)
= 152 Points

ISD Kuat Refit (112)
• Hondo Ohnaka (2)
• Reinforced Blast Doors (5)
• Leading Shots (4)
• External Racks (3)
= 126 Points

Onager-class Testbed (96)
• Intel Officer (7)
• Veteran Gunners (5)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5)
• Cataclysm (5)
Total 122

Squadrons:
= 0 Points

Total Points: 400

Strategy:
I'm not 100% sold on the speed zero maneuvering. It sounds good in practice but it is going to be hard to track ships that make a run for it without 3 clicks (I had a recent game with Cymoons where I tries to stay at speed 1 the entire game with disastrous results). As such I'm back to trying to get the meme beam dream of hitting something turn 1 with a CF order so I'm taking both Surprise Attack and Rift Ambush to try and get a ship as close as possible and potentially slowed. The plan is still the same, force the opponent to engage (this time maybe with fewer defense tokens) and choose between get plinked to death while getting chased down by alpha strike Kuats or flying into 34 HP.

Alternatively a list that will attempt to hit hard at long range:

Quote

Name: Motti Cataclysm
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault: Surprise Attack
Defense: Planetary Ion Cannon
Navigation: Minefields

ISD Kuat Refit (112)
• Strategic Adviser (4)
• Reinforced Blast Doors (5)
• Leading Shots (4)
• External Racks (3)
= 128 Points

Victory II (85)
• Gunnery Team (7)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
• Leading Shots (4)
• Harrow (3)
• Engine Techs (8)
= 115 Points

Onager-class Star Destroyer (110)
• Admiral Motti (24)
• Captain Needa (2)
• Fire-Control Team (2)
• Weapons Battery Techs (5)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
• Superheavy Composite Beam Turbolaser (7)
= Total 157

Squadrons:
= 0 Points

Total Points: 400

Strategy:
I think the OSD needs to be flown like an even more glassy cannony Cymoon first and a specialized sniper second so I don't think the Rakhell title is a good idea on it compared to the testbed with orbital beam. The good news is that a decent amount of time you're going to get a double arc in from people trying to dodge the bullseye arc with larger ships which is even more powerful than the super weapon. The idea of this list is to do a massive alpha strike at the edge of long range while using the Kuat to close for a kill. The Harrow is probably the second best ship for points after the Demo and can out-alpha a Cymoon at long range with a decent chance at accuracies to pop small ships or strip the shields of a large ship. I tried to figure out a way to add Intel Officer oo the Harrow for that very potent Alpha but came up short due to the absolutely huge investment in dice fixing on the OSD. Normally it would be quite the upgrade if I could find the points but Defense Tokens are less important due to the fact that SHCB essentially ignores brace and redirect.

Other thoughts:

I am actually not sold on SHCB being all that great due to its ineffectiveness against the SSD and the fact that it costs Needa + TRC + SHCB = 16 points and the associated slots. The only way it feels cost effective to me is with Vader with LTTs or XX9s.

3 hours ago, antisocialmunky said:

Thanks for you suggestions!

I really like the Testbed Onager idea with IO to snipe tokens from long range. I'm not a huge fan of VG but I suppose anything can help 4-5 red dice.

As far as the OSD, what do you think about using Sunder to snipe Boosted Coms or a ECM?

Here is an idea for Sunder, I dont see the point on the Testbed as you will generally run Intel Officer meaning ECM breakage is de-emphasized.

Onager-class Star Destroyer (110)
• Dirrector Krennic (8) "Place Holder"
• Weapons Battery Techs (5)
• Fire-Control Team (2)
• H9 Turbolasers (8)
• Superheavy Composite Beam Turbolaser (7)
• Sunder (10)
= 150 Points

I dont think Krennic works on this ship, however if it turns out you apply his ability from where you measure range from the targeting token, it could possibly be interesting as you can re-roll your reds, WBT lets you change one of your Blue Accuracies to a Crit, and H9 gives you the Accuracy for brace lock down. But he is alot of points. I love the Sunder title, but sadly the Officer slot on this ship feels like 1 of 2 things go there, either Needa or Intel Officer, Intel Officer gets around ECM and removed brace early, he is also usable the whole game, Sunder is one use, so I feel Sunders ability to remove ECM is not as strong as it could be, and is probably better for breaking one of the other icons that is a lynch pin on a particular ship. But its a 10 point discard...

1 hour ago, antisocialmunky said:

Other thoughts:

I am actually not sold on SHCB being all that great due to its ineffectiveness against the SSD and the fact that it costs Needa + TRC + SHCB = 16 points and the associated slots. The only way it feels cost effective to me is with Vader with LTTs or XX9s.

It is pricey, against the SSD the Testbed Max Blat build is stronger. How ever consider this against usual targets. Lets use an ISD for example.
Orbital Max Damage: 4 Red, 3 Black, and 1 ConFired Black = 16 Damage, not likely to happen but it will Intel Officer the Targets Brace, damage drops to 8, they lose Brace, they will Redirect and take 1 Damage Card and have 3 Shields on one side and 2 Shields on the Rear remaining.
Composite Beam Max Damage: 3 Red, 2 Blue, 2 Black and 1 ConFired Red or Blue = 6 SHCB Damage / 8 to 10 Damage depending on Black rolls, more consistent to pull off because of the amount of Crit fishing, Gunnery Chief Varnillian can also contribute to this. They distribute 6 damage, 2 to the Rear, 3 to on Side, and 1 to the other Side, they Brace 10 damage down to 5 damage and redirect 2 damage and now have 1 Shield Remaining on the Front.

Whats the difference? Both can do a potential of 16 damage, however I think the SHCB is better for Supporting the Rest of a fleet, as it alone can make Redirect useless straight up by just ripping the shields off completely, allowing follow up shots from other ships to go straight to Hull. OBPC on the other hand is more likely to consistently do around 10 damage and will kill their Brace straight up, but will still have surfaces to redirect to when you fire on the target with your other ships.

Both are very good as the OBPC does splash damage, does good damage and is really good if you can use your Kuats to keep their ships caged in close to each other. Where as I think the SHCB Crit Fish is a lot more consistent for Maximum damage output. The other thing to keep in mind with SHCB is that you will probably one shot almost any small ship.

I think your right about Cataclysm, it will be really good to make sure what ever your shooting is going to receive maximum dice possible.

This is my thoughts on it, tell me what you think.

Lots of good theorycrafting!

Quote

I dont think Krennic works on this ship, however if it turns out you apply his ability from where you measure range from the targeting token, it could possibly be interesting as you can re-roll your reds, WBT lets you change one of your Blue Accuracies to a Crit, and H9 gives you the Accuracy for brace lock down. But he is alot of points. I love the Sunder title, but sadly the Officer slot on this ship feels like 1 of 2 things go there, either Needa or Intel Officer, Intel Officer gets around ECM and removed brace early, he is also usable the whole game, Sunder is one use, so I feel Sunders ability to remove ECM is not as strong as it could be, and is probably better for breaking one of the other icons that is a lynch pin on a particular ship. But its a 10 point discard...

Judging by the attached image, I think Krennic is is quite useable in the general case if you purposely skew your token to the far side of the firing arc from the target. It will be an interesting problem of fancy flying.

I see what you mean about the Sunder but I think it could be good way to cripple a Sloane list by taking out an enemy carrier's Boosted Comms. But it may be easier to just blow up the carrier at that point. Only way to find out is to test.

Quote

It is pricey, against the SSD the Testbed Max Blat build is stronger. How ever consider this against usual targets. Lets use an ISD for example.
Orbital Max Damage: 4 Red, 3 Black, and 1 ConFired Black = 16 Damage, not likely to happen but it will Intel Officer the Targets Brace, damage drops to 8, they lose Brace, they will Redirect and take 1 Damage Card and have 3 Shields on one side and 2 Shields on the Rear remaining.
Composite Beam Max Damage: 3 Red, 2 Blue, 2 Black and 1 ConFired Red or Blue = 6 SHCB Damage / 8 to 10 Damage depending on Black rolls, more consistent to pull off because of the amount of Crit fishing, Gunnery Chief Varnillian can also contribute to this. They distribute 6 damage, 2 to the Rear, 3 to on Side, and 1 to the other Side, they Brace 10 damage down to 5 damage and redirect 2 damage and now have 1 Shield Remaining on the Front.

Whats the difference? Both can do a potential of 16 damage, however I think the SHCB is better for Supporting the Rest of a fleet, as it alone can make Redirect useless straight up by just ripping the shields off completely, allowing follow up shots from other ships to go straight to Hull. OBPC on the other hand is more likely to consistently do around 10 damage and will kill their Brace straight up, but will still have surfaces to redirect to when you fire on the target with your other ships.

By my calculations, the average pre-brace damage that both the ships do at long range is roughly 8 and change. Post brace on Orbital Testbed with and without a CF die is 4.6 and 4 but subsequent shots are going to be around 8.

All things being equal, I rather get to hull without having to go through all the shields so I think both options are pretty close.

Quote

Both are very good as the OBPC does splash damage, does good damage and is really good if you can use your Kuats to keep their ships caged in close to each other. Where as I think the SHCB Crit Fish is a lot more consistent for Maximum damage output. The other thing to keep in mind with SHCB is that you will probably one shot almost any small ship.

I think OBPC might be better just because it creates another problem for your opponent to solve and fly around. Its not even just the fact that you can't bunch of your ships and squads but that you have to dodge the arc leaving the deployment zone because it takes up like 15% of the map. That factor is really hard to quantify.

I actually disagree with you, SHCB is that its actually super inconsistent based on match up:

- Your Needa crit can be evaded by smaller ships which this weapon should be best against

- It doesn't work very well against a SSD or extremely shield heavy ships due to this card essentially giving your opponent a free advanced projectors

It might actually be amusing to run 2 Screed OSDs with a HIE DCAP Raider and a DCAP Gozanti to peel off a minimum of 5 shields (more likely 6-7) before an OSD attack. As an ISD only has 12 shield total you should be able to get to hull with the first OSD and then possibly even kill the ISD outright if you are rolling even slightly above average. In that fleet you use could use LTT or the XX9 YOLO for the Turbo Laser and put something more useful in the officer slot like Vanto/Hondo for Cataclysm or Strategic Advisor for the activation compared to the Needa fleet.

Like I said the OSD can be flown like a more fragile Cymoon too if you have to so a double OSD fleet might be able to brawl decently.

Quote

I think your right about Cataclysm, it will be really good to make sure what ever your shooting is going to receive maximum dice possible.

Yeah I think its probably the strongest title. It bypasses normal arcing considerations by letting you position it wherever so you can maximize your die. Think about it as being able to move a ship sideways using the distance 1 ruler. It also can give you an extra shot or two where you can try to high roll 5 red die with a free reroll into an early token snipe.

26 minutes ago, antisocialmunky said:

Lots of good theorycrafting!

Judging by the attached image, I think Krennic is is quite useable in the general case if you purposely skew your token to the far side of the firing arc from the target. It will be an interesting problem of fancy flying.

I see what you mean about the Sunder but I think it could be good way to cripple a Sloane list by taking out an enemy carrier's Boosted Comms. But it may be easier to just blow up the carrier at that point. Only way to find out is to test.

By my calculations, the average pre-brace damage that both the ships do at long range is roughly 8 and change. Post brace on Orbital Testbed with and without a CF die is 4.6 and 4 but subsequent shots are going to be around 8.

All things being equal, I rather get to hull without having to go through all the shields so I think both options are pretty close.

I think OBPC might be better just because it creates another problem for your opponent to solve and fly around. Its not even just the fact that you can't bunch of your ships and squads but that you have to dodge the arc leaving the deployment zone because it takes up like 15% of the map. That factor is really hard to quantify.

I actually disagree with you, SHCB is that its actually super inconsistent based on match up:

- Your Needa crit can be evaded by smaller ships which this weapon should be best against

- It doesn't work very well against a SSD or extremely shield heavy ships due to this card essentially giving your opponent a free advanced projectors

It might actually be amusing to run 2 Screed OSDs with a HIE DCAP Raider and a DCAP Gozanti to peel off a minimum of 5 shields (more likely 6-7) before an OSD attack. As an ISD only has 12 shield total you should be able to get to hull with the first OSD and then possibly even kill the ISD outright if you are rolling even slightly above average. In that fleet you use could use LTT or the XX9 YOLO for the Turbo Laser and put something more useful in the officer slot like Vanto/Hondo for Cataclysm or Strategic Advisor for the activation compared to the Needa fleet.

Like I said the OSD can be flown like a more fragile Cymoon too if you have to so a double OSD fleet might be able to brawl decently.

Yeah I think its probably the strongest title. It bypasses normal arcing considerations by letting you position it wherever so you can maximize your die. Think about it as being able to move a ship sideways using the distance 1 ruler. It also can give you an extra shot or two where you can try to high roll 5 red die with a free reroll into an early token snipe.

Fair enough.

For the RitR Campaign I am going to participate in early next year, I was considering 3 Arquitens with Expert Shield Techs, Engine Tech and TRC's, but now I am considering this possibly.

Name: RitR Task Force Cataclysm
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Admiral G.Aurelius

Trait 1: Ambush Gunner II
Trait 2: Ordnance Expert

Onager-class Testbed (96)
• Admiral G.Aurelius (0)
• Intel Officer (7)
• Veteran Gunners (5)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5)
• Cataclysm (5)
= 122 Points

Arquitens Command Cruiser (59)
• Expert Shield Techs (5)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
= 71 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Comms Net (2)
= 25 Points

Squadrons:
2 x TIE Defender Squadron 32
= 32 Points

Total Points: 250

List looks pretty fun @ grunnax93 , just don't forget to put Hondo on for T1 Cataclysm.

Quote

Name: Screed Beam
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Admiral Screed

Assault:
Defense:
Navigation:

Raider II (48)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Heavy Ion Emplacements (9)
= 60 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Darth Vader (1)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Comms Net (2)
= 29 Points

Onager-class Star Destroyer (110)
• Strategic Advisor (4)
• Fire-Control Team (2)
• Weapons Battery Techs (5)
• Linked Turbolaser Towers (7)
• Superheavy Composite Beam Turbolaser (7)

= 135 Points

Onager-class Star Destroyer (110)
• Admiral Screed (26)
• Skilled First Officer (1)
• Fire-Control Team (2)
• Weapons Battery Techs (5)
• Linked Turbolaser Towers (7)
• Superheavy Composite Beam Turbolaser (7)

= 158 Points

Squadrons:
= 0 Points

Total Points: 382

Here's that list I mentioned last night that's theorycrafted to be able to take out an ISD at medium + close range. There's 18/19 points to play with mostly around titles and officer slots so I'm not sure what the best way to finish this list out is.

Rakehell + Vanto gives you a wide angle turret that can cover all approaches near a table corner.

Pryce can give you a first/last double tap at optimal ranges which would let you drop the raider and get some chunky rogue bombers or aces for finishing off wounded ships or anti-squadron duty - probably terrible.

There's also a universe in which you run demolisher instead of the raider with ACM as a finisher as well.

What about squadrons? How will you deal with a squadron heavy fleet.

Well, the general strategy of all big ship lists is to try and table or blow up all the carriers and fly away. They tend not to do that well in tournaments because of this.

That seems like bad plan On the big ship list part. It’s almost like they missed return of the Jedi.

Worked for the winner of NOVA https://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2019/09/more-guest-posts-nova-winning-guest.html

4 hours ago, antisocialmunky said:

Well, the general strategy of all big ship lists is to try and table or blow up all the carriers and fly away. They tend not to do that well in tournaments because of this.

Carriers tend not to do well?

That would be news to every world champion we’ve ever had...

6 hours ago, antisocialmunky said:

Well, the general strategy of all big ship lists is to try and table or blow up all the carriers and fly away. They tend not to do that well in tournaments because of this.

Idno, I tend to enjoy deleting ISDs in 1 turn with Nym and 3 Scurrgs...

No you got it backwards, no squadron builds tend not to do that well. They are high variance and tend to only do well if they can table reliably. Carriers are better unless you can kill the carrier because things like Squall can throw squadrons from beyond long range.

It is basically a question of who can get their big activation off first wins (RIP Greedo). That is why the Onager is interesting. It can engage carrier builds at ranges beyond what they can respond with so it may even out carrier vs big ships.

You can either blow the carrier out of the sky or Sunder its boosted comms so it can't follow up the initial alpha strike unless it gets really close.

5 hours ago, antisocialmunky said:

No you got it backwards, no squadron builds tend not to do that well. They are high variance and tend to only do well if they can table reliably. Carriers are better unless you can kill the carrier because things like Squall can throw squadrons from beyond long range.

It is basically a question of who can get their big activation off first wins (RIP Greedo). That is why the Onager is interesting. It can engage carrier builds at ranges beyond what they can respond with so it may even out carrier vs big ships.

You can either blow the carrier out of the sky or Sunder its boosted comms so it can't follow up the initial alpha strike unless it gets really close.

I think potentially less of a problem for Imperials, as you say in terms of Squall, but also using Flight Commander, Quasars with Rhymer can really throw Squads from some silly distances and still make contact, so if the Quasar player does his stuff right, his first sling will be out of range, however he will have to use Speed 2 or 3 to be in range of his Squads next turn through use of Flight Commander. If he does not do it right, a Quasar is going to suffer way more against an Onager's alpha compared to a Rebel MC80 Command Cruiser just because the Quasar is much squishier. Yavaris is similar to the Quasar in terms of being able to use Flight Commander after an Engine Tech maneuver at speed 3+1, same issue but squishier.

You can also argue that Empire is less ship dependent since Thrawn and Sloane either turns every ship to a crappy carrier or intrinsically buffs all squads. With rebels, there are usually some squishy support ships like Yavaris or bomber command to take out.

Here's a oddball list. Maybe the SBCT is secretly a bomber support ship since it drops shields across the board and you can pack the bombers into whatever arc is weakest at really long range? Basically a version of 2.5 ship that can hit at beyond long range.

Quote

Name: Thrawn 2.5 Ship OSD
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Grand Admiral Thrawn

Assault:
Defense:
Navigation:

Quasar Fire I (54)
• Governor Pryce (7)
• Boosted Comms (4)
• Expanded Hangar Bay (5)
• Squall (3)
= 73 Points

Onager Star Destroyer (110)
• Grand Admiral Thrawn (32)
• Captain Needa (2)
• Weapons Battery Techs (5)
• Fire-Control Team (2)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
• Superheavy Composite Beam Turbolasers (7)
• Cataclysm (5)
= 170 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Darth Vader (1)
• Comms Net (2)
= 26 Points

Squadrons:
• 3 x TIE Bomber Squadron (27)
• Colonel Jendon (20)
• Maarek Stele (21)
• Zertik Strom (15)
• Dengar (20)
• Major Rhymer (16)
= 119 Points

Total Points: 388

22 hours ago, antisocialmunky said:

You can also argue that Empire is less ship dependent since Thrawn and Sloane either turns every ship to a crappy carrier or intrinsically buffs all squads. With rebels, there are usually some squishy support ships like Yavaris or bomber command to take out.

Here's a oddball list. Maybe the SBCT is secretly a bomber support ship since it drops shields across the board and you can pack the bombers into whatever arc is weakest at really long range? Basically a version of 2.5 ship that can hit at beyond long range.

I actually love this idea of Pryce on potentially T1 and shooting T1 then bombing runs on the same target on T1.
I love MJ but I would probably run this, as I am a Glutton for dice quality and want BCC. Thrawn is probably better for this, but I am still running Screed.

Name: Cataclysmic Rhymer
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Admiral Screed

Assault: Advanced Gunnery
Defense: Fighter Ambush
Navigation: Superior Positions

Onager Star Destroyer (110)
• Admiral Screed (26)
• Captain Needa (2)
• Weapons Battery Techs (5)
• Fire-Control Team (2)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
• Superheavy Composite Beam Turbolasers (7)
• Cataclysm (5)
= 164 Points

Quasar Fire I (54)
• Governor Pryce (7)
• Boosted Comms (4)
• Expanded Hangar Bay (5)
• Squall (3)
= 73 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Hondo Ohnaka (2)
• Bomber Command Center (8)
= 33 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Darth Vader (1)
• Comms Net (2)
= 26 Points

Squadrons:
• Dengar (20)
• Zertik Strom (15)
• Major Rhymer (16)
• 5 x TIE Bomber Squadron (45)
= 96 Points

Total Points: 392

However this has no-anti squadron ability compared with yours

SCBT doesn't hit the enemy deployment zone: https://nichurz.wixsite.com/mysite/blog/the-onager-kicking-***

But I see your list and raise you this even more ridiculous list that can actually hit T1.

Quote

Name: Pearl Harbor
Faction: Imperial
Commander: General Romodi

Assault:
Defense:
Navigation:

Onager Testbed (96)
• General Romodi (20)
• Taskmaster Grint (5)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Gunnery Chief Varnillian (6)
• Fighter Coordination Team (3)
• Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5)
• Cataclysm (5)
= 144 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Darth Vader (1)
• Bomber Command Center (8)
= 32 Points

Quasar Fire I (54)
• Governor Pryce (7)
• Expanded Hangar Bay (5)
• Squall (3)
= 69 Points

Gladiator I (56)
• Fighter Coordination Team (3)
= 59 Points

Squadrons:
• 3 x TIE Bomber Squadron (27)
• Colonel Jendon (20)
• Maarek Stele (21)
• Major Rhymer (16)
• JumpMaster 5000 (12)
= 96 Points

Total Points: 400

I think the idea goes:

1) Be Player 2

2) Take a double hit with Varni

3) Choose CF for Grint

4) Use Hondo, Take CF Token on the Cataclysm, Take Squad token on Squall

5) Pryce T1

6) FCT 3 of the squads forwards

7) Make sure the Gladiator is obstructing Cataclysm if the target wasn't obstructed already

😎 CF Order Catacysm & shoot the thing you want ded'd with all the dice fixers. Should end up rolling 6 red die with a guaranteed double with a Vader and CF token reroll

9) Hit the target with as many Squall squads as you can.

10) Realize that was your only trick and that you're completely hosed.

I've modified the list to be better and built a few different variants of it, but I'm not exactly that familiar with using Pryce carriers so I'm looking for some advice on how to fly this:

1) I'm not sure what sort of turn to set her at. Is it feasible to hit someone on T1 or is T2 best for Pryce carriers?

2) I feel like I'll have problems avoiding getting jumped on by other carrier lists, does anyone have any idea how well Instigator blocks squadrons? Should I take Flechettes over ER in this list since the bombers are doing the majority of the damage?

3) Is Tie Bomber spam better than aces for deleting ships?

Quote

Name: Romonager Bombers
Faction: Imperial
Commander: General Romodi

Assault: Suprise Attack
Defense: Fighter Ambush
Navigation: Infested Fields

Onager Testbed (96)
• General Romodi (20)
• Commander Vanto (7)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Nav Team (4)
• Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5)
• Cataclysm (5)
= 141 Points

Quasar Fire I (54)
• Governor Pryce (7)
• Boosted Comms (4)
• Squall (3)
= 68 Points

Raider I (44)
• Iden Versio (6)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• External Racks (3)
• Instigator (4)
= 61 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Hondo Ohnaka (2)
• Bomber Command Center (8)
= 33 Points

Squadrons:
• Mauler Mithel (15)
• 5 x TIE Bomber Squadron (45)
• Zertik Strom (15)
• JumpMaster 5000 (12)
= 87 Points

Total Points: 390

Here's the Aces version.

Quote

Onager Testbed (96)
• General Romodi (20)
• Commander Vanto (7)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Nav Team (4)
• Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5)
• Rakehell (4)
= 140 Points

Quasar Fire I (54)
• Governor Pryce (7)
• Boosted Comms (4)
• Expanded Hangar Bay (5)
• Squall (3)
= 73 Points

Raider I (44)
• Iden Versio (6)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• External Racks (3)
• Corvus (2)
= 59 Points

Squadrons:
• Ciena Ree (17)
• Dengar (20)
• Colonel Jendon (20)
• Maarek Stele (21)
• Morna Kee (27)
• Saber Squadron (12)
= 117 Points

Total Points: 389

And here's the Thrawn Ruthless Strategist DPS Bombers list which is closer to the type of thing I usually fly. I'm leveraging Sunder + Jonus to blast off EWS, ECM, or Boosted Coms. OP Cannon is only used for its range, not the crit. Jonus guarantees crits and accuracies.

Quote

Onager Star Destroyer (110)
• Grand Admiral Thrawn (32)
• Strategic Adviser (4)
• Ruthless Strategists (4)
• Weapons Battery Techs (5)
• Linked Turbolaser Towers (7)
• Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5)
• Sunder (10)
= 177 Points

Raider I (44)
• Iden Versio (6)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Flechette Torpedoes (3)
• Instigator (4)
= 61 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Bomber Command Center (8)
= 31 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Comms Net (2)
= 25 Points

Squadrons:
• Mauler Mithel (15)
• Zertik Strom (15)
• 4 x TIE Bomber Squadron (36)
• JumpMaster 5000 (12)
• Captain Jonus (16)
= 94 Points

Total Points: 388