I couldn't find anything in the Huge ship appendix that changes the standard ship movement rules when it comes to moving through Obstacles. Am I missing something?

Move rules (page 13 - 14 of the RR):

MOVE
A ship moves when it executes a maneuver or otherwise changes position using a
template (such as barrel rolling or boosting).
A ship moves through an object if the template is placed on that object when
the ship moves.
• If a ship moves through an obstacle, it suffers the effects of that obstacle.
• If a ship moves through a device, it can suffer effects based on the device.

• If a ship moves through another ship, there is no inherent effect. Due to the
physical miniature being in the way, players should mark the positions of any
intervening ships and temporarily remove them. To mark an intervening ship’s
position, players can either use the position markers provided in the core set
or place templates in the ships’ guides or along the side of the base. Then
those ships are physically removed to complete the move. After the move is
complete, the removed ships are returned to their original positions.

it's at the top right of page 31.



no changes to movement when moving through obstacles what so ever, just the effects of overlapping obstacles.

there is nothing about moving through obstacles what so ever, so it seems huge ships follow the same rules as regular ships. they are still considered ships after all.

It is interesting that they did not include some version of this rule from First Edition " The huge ship suffers these effects when one of its sections overlaps an obstacle, not when its maneuver template overlaps an obstacle. "

So it looks like Huge ships will need to give obstacles a pretty wide berth to ensure the movement template that sits beside the ship doesn't overlap the obstacle even when the ship (and the path it would have taken) does not. I'm hoping this is something that was missed and will be corrected in the January update. One the plus side, I think you can use either side of the ship for straight maneuvers so you should only need one side to be clear of obstacles.

12 minutes ago, meffo said:

there is nothing about moving through obstacles what so ever, so it seems huge ships follow the same rules as regular ships. they are still considered ships after all.

Seems strange with how the Huge Ship maneuver template functions though, maneuvers are measured from either of the sides and not the front.

3 minutes ago, joeshmoe554 said:

It is interesting that they did not include some version of this rule from First Edition " The huge ship suffers these effects when one of its sections overlaps an obstacle, not when its maneuver template overlaps an obstacle. "

So it looks like Huge ships will need to give obstacles a pretty wide berth to ensure the movement template that sits beside the ship doesn't overlap the obstacle even when the ship (and the path it would have taken) does not. I'm hoping this is something that was missed and will be corrected in the January update. One the plus side, I think you can use either side of the ship for straight maneuvers so you should only need one side to be clear of obstacles.

I doubt the template is meant to count, considering that if you are performing a straight maneuver, you can put the template on ether side of the base to perform it, so if one side would overlap, you can switch it to the other and Probably) not overlap. That, and the huge ship base is too large and how clunky the movement is, seems ridiculous to say the template counts as well.

I, personally, will not be counting the template itself for any overlap.

1 minute ago, joeshmoe554 said:

One the plus side, I think you can use either side of the ship for straight maneuvers so you should only need one side to be clear of obstacles.

Means threading the gap between 2 obstacles with a straight, even if the ship fits, results in you having to choose which obstacle you want to screw with your ship. Giving them a wide birth isn't always an option.

Just now, Lyianx said:

I, personally, will not be counting the template itself for any overlap.

You do what you're going to do, but the Huge ship Appendix doesn't say they're excluded from the move through rules covered in the Move section.

2 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

You do what you're going to do, but the Huge ship Appendix doesn't say they're excluded from the move through rules covered in the Move section.

Except it kinda does.

Quote

When executing a straight maneuver, the base of the huge ship might overlap another ship or obstacle (see Overlapping Objects).
When executing a bank maneuver, the base of the huge ship might overlap another ship or obstacle (see Overlapping Objects).

Doesn't mention the template. So im taking this as to mean the template isnt considered for overlaps.

"MOVEMENT (p. 30)
Huge ships are limited to straight [󲁞], bank [󲁝 or 󲁟], and stop [󲁡] maneuvers. To execute these maneuvers, huge ships use the huge ship maneuver tool. "

The entire section on huge ship movement uses this term. Note the language - it is not a maneuver template , it's a tool , so rules for moving through objects can't apply because they don't have a template. Notice the difference from early in the Rules Reference.

"MOVE (p. 13)
A ship moves through an object if the template is placed on that object when the ship moves."

So, can we agree not to count huge ships as moving through objects if the tool overlaps the object? Because we all know it's just silly anyway.

2 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

The entire section on huge ship movement uses this term. Note the language - it is not a maneuver template , it's a tool , so rules for moving through objects can't apply because they don't have a template.

I can see this and it makes sense to me. Like allot of things with this game, the devil is in the details. Though having to lean into the semantical difference between a template and a tool might end up being problematic (templates are a type of tool).

3 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

I can see this and it makes sense to me. Like allot of things with this game, the devil is in the details. Though having to lean into the semantical difference between a template and a tool might end up being problematic (templates are a type of tool).

Agreed. A simple "huge ships ignore the movement tool for the purpose of overlapping objects" would be really helpful. Although the devs may be coming at huge ships as a brand new element in the game, we players look at them as new ships , so we try to apply as many of the rules for standard ships as we can - because that's the logical thing to do.

I just find the application of the "move through" rules to be particularly illogical because the tool doesn't follow the path the ship takes, so I'm glad I found something in the rules to correct that (even if it was a semantic difference).

39 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

I can see this and it makes sense to me. Like allot of things with this game, the devil is in the details. Though having to lean into the semantical difference between a template and a tool might end up being problematic (templates are a type of tool).

Also remember. Standard maneuver templates have their specific maneuvers. The Huge ship movement tool is an "all-in-one" solution, so much more of the "template" is on the mat than what actually is needed or is used for one specific maneuver. It would be like if we blended all of the maneuver templates into a single template and used that for standard ships. It would be rather unfair to say if *any* part of that template overlapped an obstacle, you suffer, even if the part that did, wasnt anywhere where you were moving.

6 minutes ago, Lyianx said:

It would be rather unfair to say if *any* part of that template overlapped an obstacle, you suffer, even if the part that did, wasnt anywhere where you were moving.

True, but not outside the realm of possibility by either accidentally overlooking it or intentionally wanting to make being near obstacles more dangerous for the huge ships.

this is clearly an overlooked part of the rules for huge ships. moving through and overlapping is not the same thing at all. also, thematically - why would a huge ship fly over an asteroid or debris cloud with no consequences while a small ship should suffer? doesn't make sense, even if it works nicely with the assumption that the movement tool is not a template mechanically.

1 hour ago, meffo said:

... why would a huge ship fly over an asteroid or debris cloud with no consequences while a small ship should suffer? doesn't make sense ...

They do have consequences.

Huge ships can overlap things. They can't move through it. Because by definition move-through is a game term introduced because of the way the (*edit NON-huge) ships move in the game. We place a template in front of the ship, then pick up the ship and place it on the OTHER side of the template. So they had to come up with a term to cover this movement. Huge ships move different. We never pick them up and place them on the OTHER side of any template.

P31 gives detailed movements instructions for straight and bank moves.

Both ending with:

"When executing a straight maneuver, the base of the huge ship might overlap another ship or obstacle (see Overlapping Objects)."

"When executing a bank maneuver, the base of the huge ship might overlap another ship or obstacle (see Overlapping Objects)."

Nothing is mentioned about move-through.

Now think about how huge ships actually perform their movements.

For straight moves it's easy to envision them just bulldozing forward. For any option (1-5) there is nothing that can be in front of the ship that can be moved through without ever actually overlapping it because the length of the huge ship base is longer than the straight 5 template. Ie you can never end up on the other side of any obstacle by moving forward without overlapping it with your base as you can with small ships.

It's not so clear for banks (I will have to go draw a few pictures and play around with my template) but I'm relatively certain this is true for banks as well. It will not be possible to place an object next to a huge ship, then do a bank maneuver that could end you on the other side of the object without ever overlapping it.

TDLR: Not an oversight. Because of the way the huge ships move they don't need the move-through rule. The overlap rule covers where the ship goes.

As an additional argument think about it this way.

For normal ships, if you consider the start and end positions of the ship. If the ship had to slowly move from start to end, there is NO part of the movement template that would NOT be covered by the ship base as some part of that movement. (excluding bumping and moving back, but don't overthink this ok)

Now, for huge ships the exact opposite is true. If you take the start and end position, there is no part of the movement tool (ok, ok, except the little alignment hook) that is actually covered by the huge ship base. From start to finish the ship covers different areas than the template/tool.

makes perfect sense.

moving through is irrelevant for huge ships, since they will always overlap what ever they move through as well.

can anyone else confirm this?

1 minute ago, meffo said:

makes perfect sense.

moving through is irrelevant for huge ships, since they will always overlap what ever they move through as well.

can anyone else confirm this?

I should be able to in a couple of days. A friend is coming over and we're planning to play with Huge ships so I'll have a chance for some first hand experimenting with the huge base, templates and maneuver tool.

I just checked. Anything in the full front arc on the side opposite the direction the ship is banking will be overlapped EXCEPT the 3-bank. A small obstacle could be hopped over by the huge ship. The fishtailing can also cause the huge ship to 'hop' over small obstacles in the full aft arc. This is because they now rotate 45 degrees on a bank instead of 30.

This was just a quick exercise before work, so I'm looking forward to what others find.

7 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

I just checked. Anything in the full front arc on the side opposite the direction the ship is banking will be overlapped EXCEPT the 3-bank. A small obstacle could be hopped over by the huge ship. The fishtailing can also cause the huge ship to 'hop' over small obstacles in the full aft arc. This is because they now rotate 45 degrees on a bank instead of 30.

This was just a quick exercise before work, so I'm looking forward to what others find.

Awesome. Thanks for checking. I based my statements on static pictures. At work at moment so was planning on checking when I got home to get actual visual confirmation. Guess the ship moves further than I thought when banking.

I still maintain that any small obstacles hopped like this is in no way covered by the move tool (where the move-through rules would have made sense). AND that the move tool might cover things that in no way is moved through or hopped by the actual ships displacement (causing illogical rule interactions if the move-through rules were applied).

11 hours ago, meffo said:

why would a huge ship fly over an asteroid or debris cloud with no consequences while a small ship should suffer? doesn't make sense,

Because they WANT THAT SHIP! NOT EXCUSES!

Note here, during their demonstration.. The maneuver template overlaps debris. He does not suffer the effects from it. Even pointing out he avoided the asteroid on the other side (meaning they were paying attention to obstacles).