Last I remember seeing was x-wing was #2 back in early 2018. is there any place to get estimates on monthly sales?

icv2.com keeps that data, but their website is not very easy to search.

the latest i could find was fall of 2018: https://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/42621/top-5-non-collectible-miniature-games-fall-2018

Top result after googling "best selling miniatures games 2019":

https://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/43733/top-5-non-collectible-miniature-games-spring-2019

As an additional data point, FFG also has the #3 and #10 top CCG (Keyforge and Star Wars Destiny):

https://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/43736/top-collectible-games-spring-2019

So X-Wing isn’t in the top 10 these days?

That is a massive bummer, but 2.0 remains well-balanced and amazing for the most part. Guess we’ve gotta bring more people in the door, though...

It's #4 according to the link that @StriderZesseiposted

I dont think 4 is bad. 2.0 is more consumer friendly than 1.0. Other than passive sensor sf swarms you haven't had to buy much out of faction product. I think this trend is ultimately more sustainable than 1.0

I felt x wing rose to 1 because mtg and games workshop were in the middle of terrible editions/sets. They both been more proactive because of ffg products.

Legion at #5 sits very well with me. Both the gameplay and the IP are much more approachable, engaging and well-designed than Games Workshop's titles. Can't speak much for DnD.

Hoping for a very bright future for FFG's products, and I'm especially excited for the force they are in the market: other major titles have been forced into better practices due to the competitive threat FFG poses.

What I heard is X-wing despite being in very good shape as a game (more ppl playing, new players etc) is selling terribly because of transition from 1.0 to 2.0.

Ppl are buying 1.0 stuff with enormous discounts and Conversion kits, there's almost no incentive to buy new things for old players (unless you picked new fraction) Back in days we got like 1 wave per 3-4 months, now there was no single new Empire ship since like 1,5 year (?).

So game is in good shape, sales are terrible.

53 minutes ago, Oldpara said:

What I heard is X-wing despite being in very good shape as a game (more ppl playing, new players etc) is selling terribly because of transition from 1.0 to 2.0.

Ppl are buying 1.0 stuff with enormous discounts and Conversion kits, there's almost no incentive to buy new things for old players (unless you picked new fraction) Back in days we got like 1 wave per 3-4 months, now there was no single new Empire ship since like 1,5 year (?).

So game is in good shape, sales are terrible.

They need to get through all the rereleases before they can start making real money on X-Wing again. That's a big part of why they put a lot of effort into the prequel factions.

18 minutes ago, gadwag said:

They need to get through all the rereleases before they can start making real money on X-Wing again. That's a big part of why they put a lot of effort into the prequel factions.

Or they can continue cancelling rereleases, as has been the case lately. I for one am hoping after the first of the year to see some changes or I’ll be saving money now and in the future. In between announced products being cancelled, issues with the quality of the huge releases, the app not supporting huge ships and distribution issues in my area I’m not spending any more on this game until I see something better from FFG I’m the future.

And this comes from one who always defended FFG when others have been down on them. I don’t like the direction I’ve seen things going and have chosen to vote with my dollars until we see better.

All 4 stores within 100 km from where I live that used to sell X-wing have stopped doing so, either because they have closed for good (online sales are killing all brick and mortar hobby stores here), or because of Second Edition.

Second Edition is great. But about 50% of the playerbase around here quit immediately after the announcement of Second Edition, or soon after the Conversion Kits were spoiled.
And the other half have not felt compelled to buy almost anything since the Conversion Kits.

Also, many around me don't understand FFG's choice of assortment of ships they have re-edited for 2.0, like the Jumpmaster, or the Ghost.
They either already have one from first edition, or don't really see them as particularly interesting pieces for a squad in 2.0.

A couple store owners told me they are unhappy with how FFG is spamming uninteresting material to their shelves that isn't selling. The Rebel/Imperial/Scum packs from Wave 5 have not moved from the shelves (Ghost, Jumpmaster, Inquisitor, Scyk), neither the Falcons or decimators from Wave 4.
That, joined with the fact that there is a huge surplus of second hand ships being sold by people quitting the game, and that people that stick to the 3 original factions have not got any new product for a long time, doesn't seem to paint a good horizon for X-wing sales.

For now, they have told me they plan not to order any of the huge ships, and they are bringing the huge conversion kit only for people who preorder them.

2 minutes ago, Azrapse said:

All 4 stores within 100 km from where I live that used to sell X-wing have stopped doing so, either because they have closed for good (online sales are killing all brick and mortar hobby stores here), or because of Second Edition.

Second Edition is great. But about 50% of the playerbase around here quit immediately after the announcement of Second Edition, or soon after the Conversion Kits were spoiled.
And the other half have not felt compelled to buy almost anything since the Conversion Kits.

Also, many around me don't understand FFG's choice of assortment of ships they have re-edited for 2.0, like the Jumpmaster, or the Ghost.
They either already have one from first edition, or don't really see them as particularly interesting pieces for a squad in 2.0.

A couple store owners told me they are unhappy with how FFG is spamming uninteresting material to their shelves that isn't selling. The Rebel/Imperial/Scum packs from Wave 5 have not moved from the shelves (Ghost, Jumpmaster, Inquisitor, Scyk), neither the Falcons or decimators from Wave 4.
That, joined with the fact that there is a huge surplus of second hand ships being sold by people quitting the game, and that people that stick to the 3 original factions have not got any new product for a long time, doesn't seem to paint a good horizon for X-wing sales.

For now, they have told me they plan not to order any of the huge ships, and they are bringing the huge conversion kit only for people who preorder them.

It also doesn’t help that FFG sold exclusive distribution rights to alliance in the US and unless you are a large store and order a ton of product then you really aren’t going to make any profit to speak of from their games. Locally we are not getting any new product going forward, preorder or not, and will no longer be hosting tournaments. All these things combined with the quality that’s come out lately (Raider dials in CR-90’s 😂🤣😂 poor quality huge conversions) it will have an effect on the life of the game. How many store owners do you know who will dedicate space for people to play games that they don’t carry due to lack of profit?

12 hours ago, reqent said:

I dont think 4 is bad. 2.0 is more consumer friendly than 1.0. Other than passive sensor sf swarms you haven't had to buy much out of faction product. I think this trend is ultimately more sustainable than 1.0

I felt x wing rose to 1 because mtg and games workshop were in the middle of terrible editions/sets. They both been more proactive because of ffg products.

ive had to buy 7 expansions just to play what I already owned from 1.0, so i gotta disagree. I got into warhammer because its cheaper, which is why GW sales are booming. kill team, warcry and necromunda all run way less

57 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

I got into warhammer because its cheaper

I never thought I'd see the day that someone would say this seriously. (not an insult, it's just an amusing state of events)

Serious response: are those games actually cheaper if you collect them in the same quantity that you collect X-Wing? From the look of it, you probably are playing all (or almost all) the X-Wing factions. To play all the factions in one of those GW games would also be very expensive. You probably also haven't needed to spend much money on those factions since converting.

Kill team/necromunda/warcry are certainly more affordable than I expected, and I've been half considering trying one of them myself.

1 hour ago, Azrapse said:

And the other half have not felt compelled to buy almost anything since the Conversion Kits.

Conversion kits gave FFG a lump of cash immediately, but they are paying for it now with lower sales of rereleased products. That's the strategy they chose at the start of 2.0, and it's panning out in the expected way. If they can make it through this trough and still have a strong player base once everything is rereleased, they will start making good money again. I assume that the business department had made the appropriate forecasts and deemed that this was the best approach (especially because releasing conversion kits minimises alienation of 1.0 players). The recent turmoil that we are seeing could be due to changes in their business plan and a desire for a new approach going forward. There has also historically been some disparity between the development, organised play, and business departments at FFG, and these teams really need to work together for a cohesive 2.0 release strategy.

1 hour ago, Azrapse said:

Also, many around me don't understand FFG's choice of assortment of ships they have re-edited for 2.0, like the Jumpmaster, or the Ghost.
They either already have one from first edition, or don't really see them as particularly interesting pieces for a squad in 2.0.

I also find this odd, especially looking at the scum offering. It's possible that they are trying to deflect players onto the (more lucrative) prequel factions. Rebels and Imperials were always going to be tricky, though, because you really have to have the movie ships in the game. Fortunately, they have now rereleased almost all of the movie ships, which gives them a lot more freedom to move next year. While I love scum ships like the HWK, there's really no reason for FFG to rerelease it in a hurry when they can make more cash on new material.

When 2.0 was released, I had assumed that FFG would push hard on hyperspace as a format and leave extended as an almost casual-only format. I expected that the hyperrspace format would be closely tied to the sales strategy, including the rotating out of some ships (or at least pilots and upgrades) to make room for new ones. As part of this strategy, I expected to see very infrequent rereleases (apart from popular movie ships), so that rereleases would be more "yay they brought back ship X" than "when will we get something new?". However, with ships such as the starviper we can see a clear disparity between the hyperspace format and the current FFG sales strategy.

While I enjoy not needing to spend much money to compete with all my conversion kit ships, FFG needs to make money to keep making the game. I'm hopeful that after the recent changes to product release strategy they will be moving ahead with a cohesive plan where the organised play format(s) support sales strongly and the focus shifts towards new releases.

8 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

ive had to buy 7 expansions just to play what I already owned from 1.0, so i gotta disagree. I got into warhammer because its cheaper, which is why GW sales are booming. kill team, warcry and necromunda all run way less

Yeah, I'm going to have to ask for details, or call BS on that. When you say that it was to play what you already own, I'm assuming that you mean you had to purchase multiple conversion kits for the different factions you already owned (Rebel, Imperial, S&V, FO, Resistance) plus a Core Set and maybe something else. But please correct me if I'm wrong in my assumption of what your purchases were.

In any case you cannot get 5 playable armies in Warhammer for that same price. You did get 5 playable factions in X-Wing.

14 hours ago, Vykk Draygo said:

the app not supporting huge ships

Not to defend the app in any way, but I believe they said that Huge Ships will be in the new app that launches next year.

On 11/26/2019 at 2:22 AM, Vontoothskie said:

ive had to buy 7 expansions just to play what I already owned from 1.0, so i gotta disagree. I got into warhammer because its cheaper, which is why GW sales are booming. kill team, warcry and necromunda all run way less

Are you still on this train? I thought it left the station months ago.

On 11/26/2019 at 11:09 AM, kris40k said:

Yeah, I'm going to have to ask for details, or call BS on that. When you say that it was to play what you already own, I'm assuming that you mean you had to purchase multiple conversion kits for the different factions you already owned (Rebel, Imperial, S&V, FO, Resistance) plus a Core Set and maybe something else. But please correct me if I'm wrong in my assumption of what your purchases were.

In any case you cannot get 5 playable armies in Warhammer for that same price. You did get 5 playable factions in X-Wing.

base game, 2 scum conversions, 2 empire conversions, epic battles, huge ship conversion kit. 7 expansions to convert 2 factions. total of 294.65 plus tax. (this didnt convert my whole 1.0 collection, just those 2 factions) so no, i did not get 5 playable factions, i got 2. i would need to spend an additional $190 to buy the 5 expansions to convert my other factions.

by contrast I set a budget equal to my X-wing conversion cost to get into 40k kill team. For that price I bought the rules, a terrain set and board, and 2 fully kitted out kill teams. including commanders and elites, ive just now hit my budget after buying every option available for my factions. thats dozens of new models in a new game from scratch for the same price as conversion.

seperately Necromunda Gang war starter contains 20 miniatures, 2 complete factions, everything you need to play, costs $125. if you needed to buy the glue, clippers, exacto knife, and paints, youre still under $300. if you already own miniatures for the game, conversion costs $40 for the latest rulebook and converts everything.

In 40k you can buy dark imperium for $160 and get 2 playable factions, 53 miniatures plus the game components. you probably would spend another 150+ on each army, but thats getting crazy starting from scratch. conv:erting those factions from the previous edition would cost $150. just rules and 2 codexes.

in short the math is clear. X-wing conversion costs more than buying into another expensive game if you had a sizable collection

On 11/27/2019 at 8:16 PM, Dr Moneypants said:

Are you still on this train? I thought it left the station months ago.

Ignore VonToothy. Dude's been bleating away for years now, rarely with any kind of merit.

On 11/26/2019 at 5:33 AM, Oldpara said:

So game is in good shape, sales are terrible.

This seems pretty accurate, unfortunately. There's probably a couple of key contributors. People dropping between first & second is one; people simply converting first ed content is another. 7 factions means people are less likely to buy / own all than in first, and may only focus on one or two.

FFG were incredibly generous with their 2nd edition offering compared to the practises used by the thieving moneygrubbers in 1st and 2nd place on that list. But their current business model means their reliant on new players coming into the game to generate sales rather than their existing player base.

Are we seeing enough new blood coming in?

1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

Ignore VonToothy. Dude's been bleating away for years now, rarely with any kind of merit.

This seems pretty accurate, unfortunately. There's probably a couple of key contributors. People dropping between first & second is one; people simply converting first ed content is another. 7 factions means people are less likely to buy / own all than in first, and may only focus on one or two.

FFG were incredibly generous with their 2nd edition offering compared to the practises used by the thieving moneygrubbers in 1st and 2nd place on that list. But their current business model means their reliant on new players coming into the game to generate sales rather than their existing player base.

Are we seeing enough new blood coming in?

We actually have a fair number of newer players in our neck of the woods. We lost a few in the changeover, but seemingly have more than made up for it.

4 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

base game, 2 scum conversions, 2 empire conversions, epic battles, huge ship conversion kit. 7 expansions to convert 2 factions. total of 294.65 plus tax. (this didnt convert my whole 1.0 collection, just those 2 factions) so no, i did not get 5 playable factions, i got 2. i would need to spend an additional $190 to buy the 5 expansions to convert my other factions.

by contrast I set a budget equal to my X-wing conversion cost to get into 40k kill team. For that price I bought the rules, a terrain set and board, and 2 fully kitted out kill teams. including commanders and elites, ive just now hit my budget after buying every option available for my factions. thats dozens of new models in a new game from scratch for the same price as conversion.

seperately Necromunda Gang war starter contains 20 miniatures, 2 complete factions, everything you need to play, costs $125. if you needed to buy the glue, clippers, exacto knife, and paints, youre still under $300. if you already own miniatures for the game, conversion costs $40 for the latest rulebook and converts everything.

In 40k you can buy dark imperium for $160 and get 2 playable factions, 53 miniatures plus the game components. you probably would spend another 150+ on each army, but thats getting crazy starting from scratch. conv:erting those factions from the previous edition would cost $150. just rules and 2 codexes.

in short the math is clear. X-wing conversion costs more than buying into another expensive game if you had a sizable collection

It sounds to me like you bought three different games for about the same price each. Also you are ignoring the costs in both money and time involved in the assembly and painting all of those minis in all of the games you're describing.

I say this because you state "look at all the things I got for the same price or less" and then fine print all of the extra costs, like those things are incidental (which they are not for these games).

What I'm saying is that your description of the costs involved here is incredibly misleading. Not that I really care what you think, but I wouldn't want your false numbers to scare off any potential new players.

PS, why on Earth would anyone need two conversation kits each for Imperial and Scum? While they don't come with everything you need to run every list anyone can imagine, they include more than enough options to run months worth of different competitive lists, even if you change lists every week. And at least around here we traded unused components around until we had what we needed.

6 minutes ago, Dr Moneypants said:

PS, why on Earth would anyone need two conversation kits each for Imperial and Scum? While they don't come with everything you need to run every list anyone can imagine, they include more than enough options to run months worth of different competitive lists, even if you change lists every week. And at least around here we traded unused components around until we had what we needed.

I suspect I have similar quantities of ships as Vontoothskie. I bought one of each conversion kit, along with a 2nd ed core. I then spent quite a lot of time on the 2nd hand forums and acquired the equivalents of a 2nd kit for each of the original factions (less scum, more rebel bits). And the sequel conversion kits. And epic battles. And 2 Huge ship conversion kits. And all the new ships and factions, etc, etc.

I don't want to add up how much it's all cost me!

I will be attending some tournaments where we will be fielding 500pt fleets. So will my son. We have lots of ships (tm). And I do run a new list for every event I attend - still got a few ship types I haven't used since 2nd ed came out, but I'll get there eventually!

This is just to explain that, yes, there are quite a few people who wanted more than one conversion kit per faction!

32 minutes ago, Dr Moneypants said:

We actually have a fair number of newer players in our neck of the woods. We lost a few in the changeover, but seemingly have more than made up for it.

That's definitely good to hear, because new players are what will be driving sales of the 1st ed reprints.

Judging from the tournament scene, the prequel factions seem to be selling really well, and new ships to the game will always sell.

22 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

That's definitely good to hear, because new players are what will be driving sales of the 1st ed reprints.

Judging from the tournament scene, the prequel factions seem to be selling really well, and new ships to the game will always sell.

Oh yeah, a few of them have jumped immediately into Republic or Seperatists because they like them or just because of ease of entry.

I continue to be surprised (and a little impressed) at how many new players jump immediately to Droid swarms.