A question has come up at our Armada League in Berlin.

Can you resolve Beck's effect if you already have a Raid Token of that particular type. Say, you have a Squadron Raid Token (from a Beck effect in a previous round or because you received a raid Token because of Kanan Jarrus or Jyn Erso or something.

Can you resolve a squadron token command as if you had spend the token.

I feel you can, since the upgrade card effect doesn't check for a raid token until after the resolution of the effect. Only then do you receive a Raid Token or, if you already have one, don't gain a second one.

On the other hand.

"During your activation, you may resolve a command as if you had spent a command token."

You may be only able do resolve the effect, if and as if YOU had spend a command token, which YOU can't if you have a Raid token of that particular type.

I'm not sure...

Beck's point cost if 3 seems to indicate that you should probably not be able to resolve a token command every round regardless if you already have a raid token or not...

Raid Token rules:

"While a ship has a raid token, it cannot resolve the command matching that raid token. When a ship with a raid token reveals a command dial, it may discard that dial to discard all of its raid tokens, or it may discard a command token to discard that matching raid token. A ship cannot have more than one raid token of each type."

If you have a raid token, unless it is cleared, you cannot resolve a command of that raid type.
And the only time that you CAN clear raid tokens is when a ship "reveals a command dial". Not at any other point.

If you don't have a raid token, you can resolve the command.

Not sure what the question is?

@Karneck As I understand it, he’s asking whether you can ignore a matching raid token while using Beck.

@JadinED Because you “resolve a command” with her, you cannot use Beck’s effect if you have a raid token matching the command you wish to resolve.

54 minutes ago, Karneck said:

If you have a raid token, unless it is cleared, you cannot resolve a command of that raid type. [...]
Not sure what the question is?

I know, the "cannot" in the raid token rules "while a ship has a raid token, it cannot resolve the command matching that raid token," is pretty strong and usually outweighs all "can" and "may" options and effects.

As in the old Advanced Projectors vs. XI7 argument...

Advanced Projectors - "When you resolve the [redirect] token effect, you can choose more than one hull zone to suffer damage which may include a nonadjacent hull zone."

XI7 - "While attacking, if the defender spends a [redirect] toekn, it cannot suffer more than 1 damage on hull zones other than the defending hull zone."

The XI7 CANNOT is just more significant than the Advanced Projectors CAN and both are upgrade cards so the CANNOT 'wins'.

However, wasn't there some rule about upgrade card effects being more powerful than objective card effects which in turn are more powerful than core rules of the game.

As in the question of how often you can attack from on hull zone.

The core rules of the game clearly state, "a ship can perform two attacks during its activation, but it cannot attack from the same hull zone more than once per activation. "

The objective card Advanced gunnery says, "The first player's objective ship may perform each of its attacks from the same hull zone. It cannot target the same hull zone or squadron more than once each round with that hull zone. The second player's objective ship may perform each of its attacks from the same hull zone, and it may do so against the same target."

And the upgrade card Gunnery Team reads, "You can attack from the same hull zone more than once per activation. That hull zone cannot target the same ship or squadron more than once during that activation."

The OBEJCTIVE CARD Advanced Gunnery outweighs the CORE RULES so you can in fact attack twice from the same hull zone. However, the UPGRADE CARD Gunnery Team outweighs the objective card so that - even though you can attack twice from the same hull zone, and even though you can attack the same ship twice in Advanced Gunnery - you still cannot target the same ship twice if you have equipped Gunnery Team.

The issue is this.

The Raid token rules are additional rules that came out with the Chimaera and MC75 expansions and Rebellion in the Rim. So you could say they are part of the core rules of the game.

Commander Beck as an upgrade card perhaps outweigh those core rules, so that - even though the core rules of Raid token clearly prohibit you to resolve a command of which you have a matching raid token - you may perhaps still be able to resolve a command as if had been triggered by a command token... just because the UPGRADE CARD Commander Beck tells you you can...

Perhaps I'm totally wrong here. Or it's just late (11 pm local time on a long day as a father of two) or I'm just a little confused...

Its an Overreach of the rules outside of convention and outside of clear intent, utilising the fragmented basis of the rules as justification.

... and for the Record, the AP/XI7 issue boils down to a Single Letter... It was never to do with Can vs Cannot.

It was about Hull Zone s

That pluralisation

Ok, I see what you are aiming for.

So in this case, the core rule for Raid is that " While a ship has a raid token, it cannot resolve the command matching that raid token"

And for Beck it says "During your activation, you may resolve a command as if you had spent a command token. "

The main point is, Cannot is stronger than May when it comes head to head like that, even though Beck is an upgrade card.
In order for Becks card to do that, it would need to be written in a way that would allow for it to do so, which is not the case in this instance.

Just to clarify something, the golden rule of "cannot" stronger than anything doesn't apply here because that rule is for card effects and the "cannot" here is in a rule.

Now I agree with @Drasnighta that what you're doing is an overreach of the rules. It's true that most upgrades lets you supersede written rules, but only the ones the upgrade is explicitly telling you to. To put a know example, the rules say that:

"The defender cannot spend more than one defense token of each type per attack."

Now if you look at Electronic Countermeasures: "While defending you may exhaust this card to spend 1 token that your opponent targeted with an [accuracy] result"

So by the same logic that Beck would let you resolve a command for which you have a raid token, if your opponent targets 1 of your brace tokens with an accuracy, you can spend your other brace token and by using electronic countermeasures you can also spend the brace targeted by the accuracy because EC lets you spend 1 defense token targeted by an accuracy, which is exactly what you're doing.

Thank you guys for your quick answers and clarifications. I obviously got carried away in theorycrafting about how and when and where and if to use Beck.

1 hour ago, JadinED said:

Thank you guys for your quick answers and clarifications. I obviously got carried away in theorycrafting about how and when and where and if to use Beck.

Your not the only one, Beck is causing quite the stir for rules discussion already in many ways.

5 hours ago, Karneck said:

Your not the only one, Beck is causing quite the stir for rules discussion already in many ways.

I cannot figure out why? She's quite straightforward to me.

So in regards to Beck, does she work with Piett?

Thats at the top of my list to do a SWAE video on, but I only review released cards because card text can change from what is previewed to what is actually on the card text on release.