Trying to understand Grappling in "Ready... Fight!"

By SavageBob, in Genesys

@KRKappel and others: I'm trying to get my head around the grappling rules in "Ready... Fight!" I think I understand the basic concept, but I have a couple of questions:

1) I understand that Brawl (Grappling) checks are opposed (unlike Striking checks, which use the standard Average difficulty for engaged fighting). But do Brawl (Grappling) checks do damage as a normal Brawl attack would? Or is the damage only possible once you get an Advantageous or Superior Position over your opponent and can then try a Submission attack or start using Brawl (Striking) against them?

2) The charts on p. 25 of "Ready... Fight!" suggest that you only get a better position if you win the opposed Brawl (Grappling) check and generate at least 3 Advantages. Is this the case? Or is it a simple matter of the character who wins the opposed check gets an improved position?

Thanks! I'm really looking forward to getting these rules on the table in a Rumble City campaign!

So, as it stands, the brawl grappling checks (to gain position or to escape) are opposed checks.

As for spending excess successes to deal damage? They don't do that on the opposed checks to gain position or escape RAW. If you really wanted to house rule this, I would suggest having them deal strain damage with net successes instead of wounds (still dealing with soak), to represent potentially wearing an opponent out. But I really don't think this is necessary, because again, these are just checks to attain position, really, not attacks. Attacks with grappling weapons DO follow all normal rules for weapons (which is to say starting difficulty is average) and WOULD deal damage as normal. So for instance, if you made an attack with a grappling weapon (the takedown, joint submission, or choke submission, among other weapons that use Brawl [Grappling] as a base skill), then it's treated like any brawl attack, and yes, deals extra damage for net successes as normal.

Charts in this game represent ways to spend dice results in addition to the check's success or failure. RAW, so long as you're using the Improve Position action (which is an opposed grappling check, detailed on page 26, or similarly, with the escape action on the same page), then just having a successful check changes the position one step. You could hypothetically spend advantage to improve it further with the same check.

Why are these two things separated, you ask?

Well, you might be using a grappling check to do things OTHER than improve position or escape. You might be making a takedown, in which case you can change levels and force the fight to take place on the ground, but it'd typically be in a neutral position. You might spend advantage on such a check to give yourself a better position when grappling starts on the ground.

Similarly, you might spend those results during an attack with a grappling weapon, such as a choke submission. This might represent controlling the body better with your legs on an RNC choke, for instance.

Hope that answers your questions! Thanks for picking up Ready....Fight! And I'd love to hear how the game goes!

Edited by KRKappel

Thanks for the explanations! To clarify why I'm asking about Grappling doing damage -- The game I'm running is using the Rumble City setting, so there will be lots of battles against minion groups leading to battles versus Rivals and later Nemeses. Very much the "climbing the ladder" style, and paying homage to the brawler games of my youth. In such a scenario, if I have a player who opts for a grappling-focused build, I'm worried they won't get as much bang for their XP as a striking-focused character will. I mean, it sounds like grappling is potentially really useful against a Nemesis or maybe a Rival, but against hordes of Minions? What's the grappler to do?

Is the assumption that they use the generic unarmed attack, rolling Brawl (Grappling) to do it? Or is the assumption that they'll have to invest in Brawl (Striking) to be effective outside of boss battles?

So if it's me? And I have a grappling heavy PC build, and I'm in an encounter with minions? I'm just going to spam takedown attacks for damage, and probably spending advantage to keep my own feet (think steven segal when he's in a fight with 6 guys throwing them all over the place). I won't bother spending an action to improve my position for a takedown, because if the minion group is large, it's probably hard to make that check.

But what you are noticing is correct. A grappling focused build is going to be better than the striking focused build vs rivals and nemeses (the ability to bank crit scores is a huge advantage against such targets versus what strikers do), and somewhat less effective against hordes of minions. If I was building a grappler for the kind of campaign you're describing, I'd absolutely take a punch or elbow attack or something, and a rank in striking, so if I do a takedown and don't finish an enemy, I can finish them with a punch or elbow (though the plain old unarmed attack can work in that instance as well). There is also the ground and pound talent, which is for grapplers that use their grappling to get in a better position for punching.

If you're going to have this sort of PC, I'd just re-read the rules on prone targets, too. Just like in the real world, there is a lot of danger for grapplers outside one on one fights.

Edited by KRKappel

Awesome! That helps a lot. I'll share your post with the players so they, too, can better understand how to conceptualize their builds and roles in combat encounters.