If dutch do a target lock, does he give a lock to a friendly ship then have r3 kick in and get a second one? Basically getting 2 locks and giving one ? Or is it either chosing between dutch or r3 ability?

Thank you

1 hour ago, shodan1972 said:

If dutch do a target lock, does he give a lock to a friendly ship then have r3 kick in and get a second one? Basically getting 2 locks and giving one ? Or is it either chosing between dutch or r3 ability?

Thank you

Both are applied.

1 hour ago, shodan1972 said:

If dutch do a target lock, does he give a lock to a friendly ship then have r3 kick in and get a second one? Basically getting 2 locks and giving one ? Or is it either chosing between dutch or r3 ability?

Thank you

Well, first, he doesnt 'give a lock'. He allows another ship to acquire a lock. He keeps the locks he acquires PLUS allows another ship to aquire a lock on the same target. End result being both ships have a lock on the target.

As far as R3 goes, You can trigger both and both will enter the ability queue. Mechanically, the friendly ship you are granting a lock to will gain a lock on the *last* ship you locked, be that with his main lock, or with R3. (That or you get to pick which lock it 'copies, im not 100% sure) But in 99% of cases, it wont mater which order these are in the queue.

both abilities have the same timing and requirement (trigger), after you perform a (lock) action, you can add them to the queue in either order.

dutch's ability lets a friendly ship at range 1-3 acquire a lock on the ship dutch locked with his lock action, ignoring range restrictions.

r3 lets dutch acquire a lock on any object within range 0-3 as normal. this is not an action, so he does not get to hand out another lock with his pilot ability, only the original one.

dutch's ability is referencing the object he locked with his (lock) action, so if dutch resolves r3 first, the lock he hands out to a buddy must be on the object he locked with his action and not the one he acquired with r3.

that's my mechanical interpretation at least. in practical terms, it doesn't really matter.

please note that the friendly ship that dutch lets acquire a lock cannot be bumped with dutch, since his ability states "friendly ship at range 1-3" and not 0-3.

Remember that acquiring a lock and performing a target lock action are not the same thing. It is similar to performing a focus action versus gaining a focus token. This is clearly stated in the rules reference.

If the ship Dutch allows to acquire a lock has an R3 the ship will not be able to do more than lock what Dutch locked with his target lock action. R3 though will allow this acquired lock to be a second one.

If some ability allows Dutch to acquire a lock Dutch will not trigger his ability.

R3 lets you keep two locks whether they were gained via taking a target lock action or acquiring a lock.

Just so it doesn't get lost in any of the (correct) underlying rules:

Dutch gets two locks, one friend gets one lock.

On 11/23/2019 at 9:41 PM, theBitterFig said:

Dutch gets two locks, one friend gets one lock.

Specifically (in agreeing with meffo) the first lock.

13 minutes ago, Lyianx said:

Specifically (in agreeing with meffo) the first lock.

Technically sure. But over the board, if someone says, "I'm going to use Dutch with R3 to get locks on Vader and Soontir, and Wedge will use Dutch's ability to Lock Soontir," I'm not going to call them on it.

There are certainly abilities where that sort of precision makes sense. A lot of abilities physically move some ship or another, and that matters. Can't boost on Kylo, then take a Target Lock. Here, doesn't seem worth disputing.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Technically sure. But over the board, if someone says, "I'm going to use Dutch with R3 to get locks on Vader and Soontir, and Wedge will use Dutch's ability to Lock Soontir," I'm not going to call them on it.

Oh sure. I dont think any ability currently exists where it matters. But if one ever does come into the game where it would, the order would come into play.

On 11/23/2019 at 9:38 AM, meffo said:

dutch's ability is referencing the object he locked with his (lock) action, so if dutch resolves r3 first, the lock he hands out to a buddy must be on the object he locked with his action and not the one he acquired with r3.

that's my mechanical interpretation at least. in practical terms, it doesn't really matter.

quoting myself, because i'm so awesome - and i agree with both of you, @Lyianx and @theBitterFig