So there's a think I've been thinking about for a while now...

Say I have a group of 3 minions... do they all get one attack each or do they all attack as one group?

And can they attack 3 targets or just one?

One attack, one target. Don't think minions, plural, think minion group, singular.

They're two kids in a trench coat pretending to be an adult.

One way to think of it is that a minion group is a single entity that operates like a normal NPC, but their skill ranks decrease as there are less of them.

If you have 4 Stormtroopers, they operate as a single NPC with 3 ranks in their group skills. If they were to attack a target, they attack once with a pool of YYY. Once they have used one Maneuver and one Action (or two Maneuvers) their turn is over, as per usual.

There's some fluidity with this, but in general it's best to group all the minions as a horde as much as possible. Here's the exception example to help differentiate ...

smugglers stealing a princess are on one end of a hallway with an oppressive architectural style that provides lots of cover. On the other end of the hallway is a pack of storm troopers.

• For the first attack the storm trooper pack all fires at the dashing twi'lek male (and his crooked shark teeth and lumpy forehead). You'd use the group-attack amplifications as explained in the book. With the focus fire it makes it a lot more likely they'll damage and a serious injury.
• the Ithorian smuggler has a stolen wrist-grappler device. She uses this to lasso a storm trooper by the ankle and drags them over to where the smuggler anti-heroes are. These two are basically engaged with each other in fisticuffs.
• So we go to the next round, time for the storm troopers ... THIS is where it's valid to split up the attack pools. The one who's punching is not going to engage in the group tactics of shooting at the dashing twi'lek ... you'd modify the trooper group pallisades to not include him. THEN, you'd make a single fisticuffs attack with the guy who's engaged with the ithorian (which is a notably lower chance of success)

So yeah, the group tactics speed up the game considerably and provide a significant advantage to deal those critical injuries to the heroes. Don't divide the attack rolls unless thematically it just doesn't make sense.

4 hours ago, OddballE8 said:

So there's a think I've been thinking about for a while now...

Say I have a group of 3 minions... do they all get one attack each or do they all attack as one group?

And can they attack 3 targets or just one?

Just one.

I had a bad experience at the last GenCon I went to where at an FFG EotE game, the guy running the session (who barely had any idea how the system worked) ran the initial combat as a minion group benefiting from the combined skill pool and getting one attack per minion. Over half the table "noped!" out of there when it became clear that the guy really didn't know the system (guess FFG must have been short of GMs that day) and wasn't remotely open to anyone saying "are you sure you're doing that right?" as the PCs very quickly got decimated before the first combat round had even concluded. I know a couple of the players were incensed enough to want their money refunded; I wasn't one of them as it was A) Sunday and B) I'd used generic tickets to get into the session.

Well, I was mainly wondering because I've noticed that when I ran it like you guys are suggesting, my players made amazingly short work of even larger groups of minions since they could attack the minions several times in one turn while the minions only got one attack.

(it also made little sense in some circumstances where the minion groups were slightly spread out but not enough to be changed into smaller minion groups, but not all of the minions could see all of the players)

1 hour ago, OddballE8 said:

my players made amazingly short work of even larger groups of minions

That's how it's supposed to go. They're minions . It's right there in the name. They're not the adversaries who give you real trouble, they're the ones you defeat in droves to get to your real goals.

4 hours ago, OddballE8 said:

Well, I was mainly wondering because I've noticed that when I ran it like you guys are suggesting, my players made amazingly short work of even larger groups of minions since they could attack the minions several times in one turn while the minions only got one attack.

(it also made little sense in some circumstances where the minion groups were slightly spread out but not enough to be changed into smaller minion groups, but not all of the minions could see all of the players)

The thing is, that as Stan Fresh said, they're minions . They're generally not supposed to be a major threat to the heroes, and instead are there to give your PCs an opportunity to show off how cool/impressive they are by quickly taking down the mooks, not unlike what we see in the films and other media with the heroic leads taking out stormtroopers in rapid succession (Han and Chewie in TFA being a prime example, with Han even dropping a trooper while not even looking at the guy). Or to draw from a different cult classic film, The Princess Bride where Inigo dispatches Count Rugen's guards (who in the book were all expert swordsmen) in a matter of seconds without them so much as touching him.

What your suggesting effectively treats each minion as being a Rival in terms of their dice pools, which as I noted above can lead to a very bad experience for the players that may well sour them on the game entirely if done frequently enough.

If there's cases where minions might spread out enough that you think they'd warrant their own attack, then they're simply no longer part of the minion group. Sure they'd get the extra attack on the bad guys' turn, but they wouldn't benefit from the improved dice pool, balancing it out. Or, you can narrate them as firing, but their "attack" is simply rolled into the one attack roll that the minion group is making. For instance, if I have a minion group of three stormtroopers at short range from each other, standing at different positions on an overhead bridge, I can describe their shots as trying to establish a crossfire on the PCs, with shots coming at all of them, but I'm only making one attack roll against a single PC to indicate that's the unlucky sod that actually got hit by the barrage of blaster fire.

4 hours ago, OddballE8 said:

Well, I was mainly wondering because I've noticed that when I ran it like you guys are suggesting, my players made amazingly short work of even larger groups of minions since they could attack the minions several times in one turn while the minions only got one attack.

(it also made little sense in some circumstances where the minion groups were slightly spread out but not enough to be changed into smaller minion groups, but not all of the minions could see all of the players)

Well you can do it one way or the other. Nothing says you MUST run three Stormtrooper minions as a minion group. Each one will still just have minion stats (i.e. something like WT 5, Soak 5) and will attack at GGG. Obviously, a minion group of three would be YYG, but only one attack. Bigger question is: Is it an appropriate challenge to the group? (And, an appropriate reward!) For example, PC's go down an elevator shaft to the secret vault guarded by 3 Stormtroopers. If its a minion group, then the PC's probably win initiative and they never even get to go with their YYG singular attack. Reward? Any xp? Probably not. As three separate troopers (but not rivals with WT 12 each) it will be a tougher fight and you won't have that sinking feeling that Stormtroopers are useless opponents. Reward? Probably 5-10xp.

6 hours ago, OddballE8 said:

Well, I was mainly wondering because I've noticed that when I ran it like you guys are suggesting, my players made amazingly short work of even larger groups of minions since they could attack the minions several times in one turn while the minions only got one attack.

That's why in the modules they often suggest a minion group per PC, plus a Rival to lead them. Depends on your group's XP level, but more importantly their accuracy and damage output. If you want a "balanced" encounter, you need as many attacks as the PCs are producing, and damage to match...but just realize that such a scenario can go either way. The other factor is health. It takes 8-10 damage to take down most minions (including Soak) and most PCs will need 12 or so starting out, so it's a bit of a statistical race.

If the PCs are smugglers, hackers, and faces armed with basic pistols, you probably want to max out at minion groups of 2, and maybe one less group than the party. If the PCs are soldiers with heavy rifles, grenades, and good gear, then minion groups of 4-5 might be more appropriate, one per PC + leader.

I don't think it's a problem to have minions running as individuals, especially when the PCs are starting out. Four or five individual stormtroopers can still make a short but exciting fight for 4 new PCs if the PCs are a mixed bag of combat ability.

4 hours ago, whafrog said:

That's why in the modules they often suggest a minion group per PC, plus a Rival to lead them. Depends on your group's XP level, but more importantly their accuracy and damage output. If you want a "balanced" encounter, you need as many attacks as the PCs are producing, and damage to match...but just realize that such a scenario can go either way. The other factor is health. It takes 8-10 damage to take down most minions (including Soak) and most PCs will need 12 or so starting out, so it's a bit of a statistical race.

If the PCs are smugglers, hackers, and faces armed with basic pistols, you probably want to max out at minion groups of 2, and maybe one less group than the party. If the PCs are soldiers with heavy rifles, grenades, and good gear, then minion groups of 4-5 might be more appropriate, one per PC + leader.

I don't think it's a problem to have minions running as individuals, especially when the PCs are starting out. Four or five individual stormtroopers can still make a short but exciting fight for 4 new PCs if the PCs are a mixed bag of combat ability.

Huh, I suppose I should read the modules (I never run pre-made adventures, I just bought them for the equipment and other stats)

I like the idea of using minions as individuals at low levels.

Especially since, in the starter adventures (only pre-made ones I've run) my lvl 1 PC's have more or less decimated every minion group in one turn whenever I've run them as "one-attack" type groups.

I think I'm gonna run with your suggestion of using individual minions in the beginning and then starting to use minion groups after the players have a few short adventures under their belt.

6 minutes ago, OddballE8 said:

Especially since, in the starter adventures (only pre-made ones I've run) my lvl 1 PC's have more or less decimated every minion group in one turn whenever I've run them as "one-attack" type groups.

I think that depends on the composition of the group.

For the F&D starter adventure, half the PCs have access to lightsabers, so if they're in the party then they're going to plow right through whatever opposition is put in front of them (up to and including the BBEG of the module). But if nobody has lightsabers or blaster rifles/carbines, the fights get much harder.

For the EotE starter adventure (which I've run a few different times), if the Wookiee or the Twi'lek weren't around, then the fights got very tough for the group. But if both the Wookiee and the Twi'lek are around, then most of the fights become quite easy as those two are the heavy-hitters of the pre-gens.

I ran the TFA starter adventure once using three of the four pre-gens (the ace, the explorer, and the colonist) and they struggled with the combat encounters. I ran the same adventure with a group of hand-made PCs using the AoR careers (Ace/Hotshot, Commander/Figurehead, Soldier/Trailblazer, and Spy/Infiltrator with not much extra in the way of gear) and they mopped up those same fights pretty quickly.

Yeah the build and gear on the players will have a big change to how fast they they can plow through minions. Have a low critical can help them kill an extra per turn. If they have auto fire weapons then they can chew threw groups with no problem if they can active the auto fire.

19 minutes ago, OddballE8 said:

Huh, I suppose I should read the modules (I never run pre-made adventures, I just bought them for the equipment and other stats)

I like the idea of using minions as individuals at low levels.

Especially since, in the starter adventures (only pre-made ones I've run) my lvl 1 PC's have more or less decimated every minion group in one turn whenever I've run them as "one-attack" type groups.

I think I'm gonna run with your suggestion of using individual minions in the beginning and then starting to use minion groups after the players have a few short adventures under their belt.

Always group them or split them up as necessary. 6 Goons could be a single Minion Group, 2 groups of 3, or 3 groups of 2. I really don't recommend using individual minions. The game begins to move really slowly if five extra characters are taking turns, and they just become obnoxious. The PC's are supposed to be able to take out multiple minions with a single good roll, whether by dealing high damage or inflicting crits. If the minions are individuals, your blaster rifle is wasted, as you're dealing 10 damage to one poor schmuck with 4 Wounds. Laaaaame.

If you would like your minions to spread the damage around, give them all a new ability, which I will call, uh... " Dispersed Attack ." It works almost just like Linked , but the hits are spread among other targets.

Dispersed Attack (Active): When attacking, if successful, the attack deals one hit. The attacker may spend 2 Advantage to hit an additional valid target, and may do so a number of times equal to the number of minions in the group.

Okay, "Dispersed Attack" is not a great name. Minion Swarm? Barrage? Someone help me out here.

2 hours ago, The Grand Falloon said:

Dispersed Attack (Active): When attacking, if successful, the attack deals one hit. The attacker may spend 2 Advantage to hit an additional valid target, and may do so a number of times equal to the number of minions in the group.

Okay, "Dispersed Attack" is not a great name. Minion Swarm? Barrage? Someone help me out here.

I'd add to that that they don't upgrade their dice pool, because otherwise there is no reason to not use that.

Maybe... "Fire at Will"

8 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

I think that depends on the composition of the group.

For the F&D starter adventure, half the PCs have access to lightsabers, so if they're in the party then they're going to plow right through whatever opposition is put in front of them (up to and including the BBEG of the module). But if nobody has lightsabers or blaster rifles/carbines, the fights get much harder.

For the EotE starter adventure (which I've run a few different times), if the Wookiee or the Twi'lek weren't around, then the fights got very tough for the group. But if both the Wookiee and the Twi'lek are around, then most of the fights become quite easy as those two are the heavy-hitters of the pre-gens.

I ran the TFA starter adventure once using three of the four pre-gens (the ace, the explorer, and the colonist) and they struggled with the combat encounters. I ran the same adventure with a group of hand-made PCs using the AoR careers (Ace/Hotshot, Commander/Figurehead, Soldier/Trailblazer, and Spy/Infiltrator with not much extra in the way of gear) and they mopped up those same fights pretty quickly.

Well, I've only ever used the adventures, not the characters (except when playing with kids at work, in which case I've run the minion rules with just one attack, since the kids can need the feeling of being awesome more than they need the feeling of a challenge), so they've all been using their own custom made characters.

8 hours ago, The Grand Falloon said:

Always group them or split them up as necessary. 6 Goons could be a single Minion Group, 2 groups of 3, or 3 groups of 2. I really don't recommend using individual minions. The game begins to move really slowly if five extra characters are taking turns, and they just become obnoxious. The PC's are supposed to be able to take out multiple minions with a single good roll, whether by dealing high damage or inflicting crits. If the minions are individuals, your blaster rifle is wasted, as you're dealing 10 damage to one poor schmuck with 4 Wounds. Laaaaame.

If you would like your minions to spread the damage around, give them all a new ability, which I will call, uh... " Dispersed Attack ." It works almost just like Linked , but the hits are spread among other targets.

Dispersed Attack (Active): When attacking, if successful, the attack deals one hit. The attacker may spend 2 Advantage to hit an additional valid target, and may do so a number of times equal to the number of minions in the group.

Okay, "Dispersed Attack" is not a great name. Minion Swarm? Barrage? Someone help me out here.

Keep in mind that I would only be using individual minions for like the first two or maybe three adventures, and then move on to use normal minion rules.

7 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I'd add to that that they don't upgrade their dice pool, because otherwise there is no reason to not use that.

Maybe... "Fire at Will"

Poor Will...

6 hours ago, Rimsen said:

Poor Will...

"Do not fire at Will, he is my first mate.... FIRE AT THE SEA DUCK! "
- Don Carnage, one of the (IMHO) greatest villains to come from a syndicated animated series.

10 hours ago, Rimsen said:

Poor Will...

No matter how many times that joke has been beaten to death with a hammer, revived, and then beaten to death again, it's still funny.

4 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

No matter how many times that joke has been beaten to death with a hammer, revived, and then beaten to death again, it's still funny.

So true. Some jokes never get old.

On 11/22/2019 at 11:48 AM, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

No matter how many times that joke has been beaten to death with a hammer, revived, and then beaten to death again, it's still funny.

I was at DragonCon years ago and someone had made a Star Trek video montage. One part of it was with Picard saying "Fire at Will" and the next shot was multiple people firing phasers and poor Wil Wheaton going down.

2 hours ago, Varlie said:

I was at DragonCon years ago and someone had made a Star Trek video montage. One part of it was with Picard saying "Fire at Will" and the next shot was multiple people firing phasers and poor Wil Wheaton going down.

"And there was much rejoicing." *cue bored sounds of general rejoicing*