Not sure if any official FFG or Yeti Gaming representatives review these forums, but I've opened two decks with Mimic Gel and in just the first game with Mimic Gel I have rules questions and clarification requests abound. Is there any chance someone who is an official can give a brief review of Mimic Gel's functions and interactions? The card seems like it can be incredibly powerful and I'm sure it'll show up in some high profile Vault Tour games or what not soon enough so I'm sure the topic will be broached eventually, but if anyone can get the jump on things by answering here it would be greatly appreciated!

Card link: https://decksofkeyforge.com/cards?title=MIMIC GEL

Mimic Gel, 0 Power/0 Armor creature, description: "Mimic Gel cannot be played unless there is another creature in play. Mimic Gel enters play as a copy of another creature in play, except it belongs to house Logos."

A couple starter questions, trying to stick with in-set World's Collide cards for examples:

1. How does this card interact with Alpha, Omega, and Deploy?

2. How does Mimic Gel interact with a target that has an upgrade(s) affecting that target? Examples:

• Instrument of Silence has given the target creature Skirmish and "Fight: Gain 1 aember", does Mimic Gel also gain these effects since they were gained by the target creature?
• What about a more complicated effect like Disruption Field, does Mimic Gel gain the ability to add counters to the upgrade even though it wouldn't have the upgrade attached to itself?
• I would assume an equipped upgrade that's not affecting the target creature (i.e. Quadracorder) would not be copied with Mimic Gel as Mimic Gel only targets the creature and wouldn't notice/acknowledge the upgrade?

3. Similarly to upgrades, how does Mimic Gel work if the target creature has gained abilities/statistics from it's neighbors?

• If Mimic Gels target is next to a Breaker Hill, does Mimic Gel also receive the "Action: Steal 1 Aember" since Mimic Gel's target creature has gained the effect from being Breaker Hill's neighbor?

I think this is all the starter questions I have, feel free to add more questions to the comments and we can keep our fingers crossed for an official response.

This is just me going off my knowledge as a Magic judge and how such things are handled, but:

1. The one restriction on playing it is there is another creature in play. For copying a creature with "Alpha", you would not need to meet any further requirement as it is a play requirement and you are past that point already when you are choosing a creature. For "Omega", the same should apply. It did not have Omega when you played it, but gained it after it was already in play. For "Deploy", it is also part of playing the card and the Gel has already entered play before it gains "Deploy", so it would not be a copied ability.

2. The Mimic Gel copies the original card, no extras gained from outside sources such as upgrades, increased power, or increased armor.

3. See #2.

Again, these are how I would explain the interactions to people I play with because we all come from the same Magic backgrounds. I too would like to see how this is handled as sometimes the explanations seem to come out of left field sometimes on how they want it to work. (Look back to Biomatrix Backup and erratas on cards).

For the Alpha/Omega/Deploy to make sense on being copied, it should say something like "Choose a creature in play. Mimic Gel is played as a copy of that creature." This specifically sets the play trigger window, otherwise I would go back to it stating "Mimic Gel enters play..." so therefore, you have already played the card as Mimic Gel which doesn't have Alpha/Omega/Deploy.

On 11/19/2019 at 11:29 PM, KandyKidZero said:

This is just me going off my knowledge as a Magic judge and how such things are handled, but:

1. The one restriction on playing it is there is another creature in play. For copying a creature with "Alpha", you would not need to meet any further requirement as it is a play requirement and you are past that point already when you are choosing a creature. For "Omega", the same should apply. It did not have Omega when you played it, but gained it after it was already in play. For "Deploy", it is also part of playing the card and the Gel has already entered play before it gains "Deploy", so it would not be a copied ability.

2. The Mimic Gel copies the original card, no extras gained from outside sources such as upgrades, increased power, or increased armor.

3. See #2.

Again, these are how I would explain the interactions to people I play with because we all come from the same Magic backgrounds. I too would like to see how this is handled as sometimes the explanations seem to come out of left field sometimes on how they want it to work. (Look back to Biomatrix Backup and erratas on cards).

For the Alpha/Omega/Deploy to make sense on being copied, it should say something like "Choose a creature in play. Mimic Gel is played as a copy of that creature." This specifically sets the play trigger window, otherwise I would go back to it stating "Mimic Gel enters play..." so therefore, you have already played the card as Mimic Gel which doesn't have Alpha/Omega/Deploy.

Interesting

Is "enters play" defined in the rules somewhere to not include alpha/omega? What about Play abilities? Is "copy" defined? Why would you assume Mimic Gel does not get any abilities when an upgrade literally states that the target creature "gains" x? Would that not carry over in a copy?

I agree that you are probably right in the intent of the card (not sure about alpha/omega though), but we need a lot more rules/clarifications before we can definitely say this is how it works.

Agreed.

As per Alpha, the rules state when the card can be played: "When a card has the Alpha keyword, it can only be played if you haven't played, used, or discarded any other cards". My inference here is that you choose the creature while playing the Mimic Gel, which by that point you are past checking for Alpha.

For Omega: "After a card with the Omega keyword is played, the current step of the game ends...", again the Gel won't get Omega until after it is already played and entered your battleline. I could see arguments going the other way, but it will depend on when exactly you are making the choice to copy the creature.

Copy is not currently defined with the latest rules update.

As I said, my assumptions are based on a game I have played for over 20 years and am a judge for that was also created by the same person. Keyforge is very loose with terminology, which is expected since it is a new game, but their templating and rules could use a good, hard look.

With that said, copying something in Magic only copies the original card, otherwise certain things could create involuntary loops that just draw the game. The upgrade is what is giving the creature the bonus, but it should not be a copyable trait.

Again, Brad and whoever else he confers with (I sure hope it is more than just him) have gone way left field with things, but if he says anything to the contrary, I won't argue and will play by the stated rules. Until those rules are stated, someone has to make a call and this would just be my call.

What about copying a creature with Play: abilities? Do those trigger? If it "enters play as", does it mean the play ability still triggers?

Yes, play abilities trigger after a creature has fully been played and enters the battleline.

I have to respectfully disagree on the first question about Mimic Gel, if the creature it is copying has alpha/omega or deploy in its text then I think it is more than reasonable that Mimic Gel gains those attributes as well. If you are copying a creature with Alpha then Mimic Gel has to be the first card you play during your turn. If you are copying a creature with Omega then Mimic Gel becomes the last card you play that turn. Finally, if you are copying a creature with Deploy then Mimic Gel can go anywhere in your battle line.

I would confidently advocate this as a ruling precedent has been set with Mimicry, which does gain the alpha/omega traits of an action card it is copying in the discard pile per the FAQ.

Otherwise I completely agree with the consensus on questions #2 and #3 that Mimic Gel only copies the creature, and not any upgrades or buffs/abilities being granted the aforementioned creature by another card effect.

OP if you want an official answer you'll have to submit a rules submission form and wait 1-6 months for FFG to get to it (good luck amidst the layoffs), you will not get anything official on the forums unfortunately.

4 hours ago, TheSpitfired said:

I have to respectfully disagree on the first question about Mimic Gel, if the creature it is copying has alpha/omega or deploy in its text then I think it is more than reasonable that Mimic Gel gains those attributes as well. If you are copying a creature with Alpha then Mimic Gel has to be the first card you play during your turn. If you are copying a creature with Omega then Mimic Gel becomes the last card you play that turn. Finally, if you are copying a creature with Deploy then Mimic Gel can go anywhere in your battle line.

I would confidently advocate this as a ruling precedent has been set with Mimicry, which does gain the alpha/omega traits of an action card it is copying in the discard pile per the FAQ.

Otherwise I completely agree with the consensus on questions #2 and #3 that Mimic Gel only copies the creature, and not any upgrades or buffs/abilities being granted the aforementioned creature by another card effect.

OP if you want an official answer you'll have to submit a rules submission form and wait 1-6 months for FFG to get to it (good luck amidst the layoffs), you will not get anything official on the forums unfortunately.

I did this with a question for headroth's wall last year. Still no response. It's been 7months

2 hours ago, toxic newb said:

I did this with a question for headroth's wall last year. Still no response. It's been 7months

I remember that discussion lol. Write them and ask again, and specifically mention that you asked 7 months ago and are still waiting for a response. I did that once after several months of waiting to for the ruling on Masterplan and got a reply within a week of the second submission.