8 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

New answer: Because Tractor Beams are a NPE/TFG mechanic.

TFG? This ****ing game?

The only tractor mechanic which maybe possibly isn't an NPE is... frankly... Tractor Beam itself. Someone giving up an attack entirely to tractor seems like a fair trade-off.

37 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

TFG? This ****ing game?

The only tractor mechanic which maybe possibly isn't an NPE is... frankly... Tractor Beam itself. Someone giving up an attack entirely to tractor seems like a fair trade-off.

TFG=That f@#$ing Guy, or troll. Though admittedly sometimes Tractor are used by hyper control freaks the way blue is used in Magic, but that might not make you necessarily a troll, if that makes sense?

My issue with that is that in my opinion X-wing shouldn't have those type of control-the-opponent mechanics. I think at most you should be able to throw the proverbial wrench in their plans with like ion or a stress, but you should never gain control. Not to mention getting the +Wedge free dice mod is really harsh on top. Like, X-wing wants to be a game where the 'Blue' side of the equation is self control manipulation. The kind of 'control' mechanics that would do things like look at Dials so it can change it's own like with Sense or Intel, or be able to trade dice in and out on things like Miranda. That kinda 'Johnny' play style y'know?

Yeah most def the trade of there for an attack seems at least better.

i'm glad there's no option for "i'm deliberately hiding data so no one expects the super secret list i made borrowing from my girlfriends CIS stuff"

7 minutes ago, catachanninja said:

i'm glad there's no option for "i'm deliberately hiding data so no one expects the super secret list i made borrowing from my girlfriends CIS stuff"

Too late, you just gave the plan away. Remember, loose lips sink (star)ships.

The comparison to blue in magic is malarkey

Blue with Mana open means haha **** your turn

Ensnare has conditions and counterplay, provided you have more than one ship

The only real npe is actually ion. Broadsides can walk fools off the table like a pushy chauffer. We don't complain about that, though.

My only issue is with unlockable pinpoint array and/or range 0 Ensnare. Tractor isn't the problem; it could've been just as irritating with jam tokens. The issue is lack of counterplay, hence npe

4 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

The comparison to blue in magic is malarkey

Blue in MtG is typically the "control" side of the game. You can counterplay blue too. You never baited out a counterspell so you could cast what you really needed?

Tractor is "worse" than countermagic.

In X-wing the whole emphasis is on how you fly i.e. where you put your ships. If someone else gets to move them for you via tractor they've done far worse and gained far more than killing your creature by simply not letting it hit the table.

In way back MtG a Counterspell was two blue and Terror (kills creature essentially) was one black and one any color. One card Terror or Counterspell to take one card (in the case of a creature) either on the table or before it gets to the table. You only get one card draw a turn usually. It feels bad to have your spell not count but in the game the "cost" is the same a card for a card just like blocking a 2/2 with a 2/2 is an even trade.

Tractor alters the most important decision you make in the game: where to put your ship. It does this while also reducing your defense. In changing your most important decision tractor can cause your ship to be damaged, cause your ship to lose its attack, lose its actions, make your coming decision on where to put your ship "wrong."

Tractor leaves countermagic in the dust as far as disrupting you. Tractor is more on the lines of land destruction (which is still a card for a card) and discard effects than countermagic.

22 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

Blue in MtG is typically the "control" side of the game. You can counterplay blue too. You never baited out a counterspell so you could cast what you really needed?

Not against a player who understood that your bait card wouldn't actually help you win

Now if you had two copies of the same card, or two different bombs, then hey good draws

And while tractor alters your position, it only does so in extremely specific ways. You CAN counterplay it, especially by putting friendlies where you don't want your tractored ship to be.

Unlike counter spell, where it's just "welp, goodbye turn" or 'Carnage Titan", you can actually position so that a tractor effect won't bugger you.

Trust me, im not innocent. I've played heaps of blue/green on mtg arena, since there I'm "ficklelanddraws" and I therefore appreciate card draw...also late game monsters. Its pretty trivial to know when to hold your counterspell

Also blue/black Dimir because scry is the BEST MECHANIC ever and the pay 2 life: scry 2 demon is a godsend

I've paid 10+ life scrying through lands; no joke!

8 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

especially by putting friendlies where you don't want your tractored ship to be.

That's not really countering my point that tractor messes with the most important decision you make in X-wing.

4 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

That's not really countering my point that tractor messes with the most important decision you make in X-wing.

Putting your friendlies in said positions is EXACTLY what an important decision in Xwing is. Unless you're playing only one ship, your positioning involves the entirety of your list. Tractors will only mess with a fraction of your decisions

And your decisions can directly counter the tractor mechanic. Even something as simple as "don't be near rocks, ya ninny" can severely mitigate its effectiveness

Tractor mechanics have counterplay based on positioning; not NPE

Pinpoint array and range 0 Ensnare? Not so much.

2 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Tractor mechanics have counterplay based on positioning; not NPE

My opinion differs. When my opponent moves my ship that is a negative experience. After Tractor Defenders in about my third game FFG is lucky I ever bought another expansion.

Nantex tractor mechanics are not fair. They move their ship even after you block them countering your positional play. They also get to move their firing arc countering your positional play. They then get to move your ship countering your positional play. And they reduce your defense value in the process while possibly improving their own.

If your positional play was good enough in the first place maybe they don't get to put you on an asteroid.