Ho ho, what a lively conversation about shuffling a deck.

I would like to thank all of you so far (yes, I know I'm thanking everybody every few words they say, Sorry that's a sickness I'm sadly not trying to cure, sorry :-) ).

Really, it's pretty interesting and mostly playing alone I always have all these conversations around rules in mind, thanks !

and @Tonbo Karasu Hey thanks for liking this thread. As you may see I started it when I received my own core set in novembre 2019, I have archived all my questions + answers and now I'm laughing when I see some of my earliest questions. But the richness of this thread and all the others like it is the friendly atmosphere we have here. And the kindness of everyone sharing information, opinion and their helping hand :-)

I hope I can give back some of this. I know that I ask more than I answer and sometimes It's me being not focused enough that makes (stupid) questions here and there. (see the Facepalm).

What I like with Marvel Champions is that I'm actually learning how to play. i've spent all those years buying great games and being a d!ck à deckbuilding for the sole reasn that I found it both appealing and overwhelming. beginning with a smaller collection of cards like we have now with Marvel Champions is a better first step for me and I bet it will help me getting back in Netrunner with a better spirit :-)

So hey... thanks to everyone so far ;-)

13 hours ago, Derrault said:

I mean, if you don’t want to shuffle, nobody is going to force you to do that, but the outcome of the next turn will be different, generally, if you do shuffle than if you don’t. This mostly “matters” if you’re aware of what the next cards are (Falcon or Heimdall)

...Or Ms Marvel as knowing the bottom of the deck is unfair info for us old school SW:CCG players who track those things.

1 hour ago, IceHot42 said:

...Or Ms Marvel as knowing the bottom of the deck is unfair info for us old school SW:CCG players who track those things.

Yeah, no, that's definitely a situation in which I'd shuffle every time I was technically supposed to. The only times I'd ignore it is if I actually have no knowledge of the state of the deck at all.

(Plus for MM it's in some ways better to shuffle, anyways, since you have a chance of getting those good cards from the bottom of your deck much sooner--though I do like having a signature card or two towards the bottom to ensure I don't accidentally deck out completely with Teen Spirit)

7 hours ago, Elrad said:

Ho ho, what a lively conversation about shuffling a deck.

Lol! Lively for some maybe. I'm bowing out of it because apparently my point has been deemed unnecessary. I'm glad others agree reading and following the cards to avoid mistakes is a good practice in general and not just for this deck shuffling case. I've had enough sour situations from that predicament.

Sorry for derailing your thread for a bit there, Elrad. Let's get back to our regular question-answering programming.

Hey @The Archangel Don't apologise it was a good clarification and I definitely think if a game is well made that we should follow the rules whenever they say something.

Ok if you invite me to go back to questions/answers here's one :

29) Doctor Strange has really huge powers. I love him. That said, my question may appear very basic but there it is : If an Ally has " Tough " on them, can I declare them as defenders for an enemy attack and then force that attack to be cancelled ?

(By the way, reading the rules again regarding attack and defence I realize that I've never played that step correctly....having had so many difficult moments while "cheating"...I'm impressed by myself... - to tell the truth, Instead of declaring the defender before revealing the boost cards, I was doing it after...which is technically cheating...oh Well :-P)

Assuming you mean Tough rather than Though , absolutely. In fact, it's probably a better play to use the Tough card on an ally to block an attack rather than absorbing consequential damage.

4 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Assuming you mean Tough rather than Though , absolutely. In fact, it's probably a better play to use the Tough card on an ally to block an attack rather than absorbing consequential damage.

Oops Absolutely right, sorry. I sometimes make that mistake in English of putting or forgetting an H here and there. thanks :-)

EDIT : Hum... just wondering... When the Villain or minions attack I have to declare if I defend against the attack. Normally when the Hero has a "Tough" card on them, it automatically cancels the attak without having them to be exhausted to defend against the attack.

Allies however are not the default target of enemy attacks so how do i resolve it ? Do I exhaust the ally with " tough " on them as if they were to effectively defend and then discard the " tough " card and not paying the consequential cost or Do I keep the designated ally ready and simply discard " tough " ?

54 minutes ago, Elrad said:

Oops Absolutely right, sorry. I sometimes make that mistake in English of putting or forgetting an H here and there. thanks 🙂

EDIT : Hum... just wondering... When the Villain or minions attack I have to declare if I defend against the attack. Normally when the Hero has a "Tough" card on them, it automatically cancels the attak without having them to be exhausted to defend against the attack.

Allies however are not the default target of enemy attacks so how do i resolve it ? Do I exhaust the ally with " tough " on them as if they were to effectively defend and then discard the " tough " card and not paying the consequential cost or Do I keep the designated ally ready and simply discard " tough " ?

You have to exhaust the ally in order to defend, even with a tough status.

You don’t need to take consequential damage when an ally defends, only when they attack or thwart.

tough cancels damage, not an attack.

Oh good precision, @KimJoshIl . And yes my bad for confusing Attack and thwart on one side and Defend on the other.

29-a)

On 7/16/2020 at 2:49 PM, KimJoshIl said:

tough cancels damage, not an attack.

I would like to discuss a bit more the " tough " card because I think I've wrongly played its effects so far.

Like @KimJoshIl said, and I checked it in the rules, " tough " does indeed prevent once any amount of damage the attached character would be dealt .

But You say it doesn't cancel the attack.

So If i'm reading correctly, if my Hero has " tough " on them, I still have to draw boost card(s) and resolve any "boost effect" that may be printed in the text box of the drawn boost card(s) before calculating the total amount of normally dealt damages and prevent them by discarding the " tough " card, is that correct ? (because so far I didn't draw the boost cards when facing a " tough " stat card....)

As you say, Tough prevents damage but doesn’t cancel the attack. So you should still be drawing boost cards and if they have an effect other than adding damage (due to a star icon) resolving it.

Thanks for your answer :-)

4 hours ago, Elrad said:

So If i'm reading correctly, if my Hero has " tough " on them, I still have to draw boost card(s) and resolve any "boost effect" that may be printed in the text box of the drawn boost card(s) before calculating the total amount of normally dealt damages and prevent them by discarding the " tough " card, is that correct ? (because so far I didn't draw the boost cards when facing a " tough " stat card....)

Boost cards are also important in this case because of boost cards like Whirlwind or Concussive Blast (I believe is the name of the card; the one from "Under Attack") that say "do 1 damage to all friendly characters" or to each hero.

The boost card is resolved before the attack goes through, so if the boost card does damage it can knock off your tough status before the attack hits.

Also, if you're playing with cards like Energy Barrier that say "When you would take damage," those unfortunately cannot trigger before the tough card, because status effects have timing priority.

Hum... thanks to everyone for your answers.

30) So Is there a diagram explaining exactly the timing of every type of cards ? Maybe at this time there are not many things to say but it could still be useful as there are no entry for priority in the rule book...

3 hours ago, Elrad said:

Hum... thanks to everyone for your answers.

30) So Is there a diagram explaining exactly the timing of every type of cards ? Maybe at this time there are not many things to say but it could still be useful as there are no entry for priority in the rule book...

No, there’s nothing like that for this game as yet. Most things the timing is fairly easy to work out by a strict reading of the card and the rules though.

10 hours ago, Elrad said:

Hum... thanks to everyone for your answers.

30) So Is there a diagram explaining exactly the timing of every type of cards ? Maybe at this time there are not many things to say but it could still be useful as there are no entry for priority in the rule book...

Somebody has one they've made and have been updating, but I'm not sure where it is. I'll come back with a link when I find it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ExlEf5bcbBE_j5ASv_ddSZkAWqaORHkJuG0UFQNdUJc/edit?usp=sharing -here we go.

thanks for answering. And thanks for the link @SpiderMana , it's exactly what I was looking for :-)

Boost cards can be really nasty, turns out you can lose your "hero" (identity) to an attack while he is in alter-ego mode and has 6 health.

31) Oh ? you gan get damaged when you're in alter ego ? I knew you couldn't be attacked but didn't clearly know direct damage by a boost effect would still apply

4 hours ago, Elrad said:

Oh ? you gan get damaged when you're in alter ego ? I knew you couldn't be attacked but didn't clearly know direct damage by a boost effect would still apply

You can in fact be attacked, but it's relatively rare as the villain doesn't attack you by default when you're in Alter-Ego, and cards like Assault generally have no effect (except for surging).

I know there's at least one encounter card that says the villain attacks you (I think in Mutagen Formula?), but doesn't get a boost card if you're in AE? Another plausible situation is if you're in AE and block for a friend using an Ally, if the boost card does a damage to your Ally and finishes them off before the attack goes through, your AE is the new target of the attack.

That would be "I See You" from Mutagen Formula and yes, it causes Green Goblin to attack you, without a boost card if you're in Alter Ego.

There's currently no boost effect to give Overkill, but I can imagine if you send out a chump block for someone else while in Alter Ego and it unexpectedly gains Overkill, you could end up taking a bunch of damage.

You're right, you were talking about this card :

It's indeed something really nasty for a card. Didn't pay enough against Green Goblin to suffer from it...

30-b) So, just a clarification on the core rules : when it's written "the villain attacks you", you alway draw boost cards (except if explicitly written like in "I see you") even if its not their phase step 2 ?

2 hours ago, Elrad said:

30-b) So, just a clarification on the core rules : when it's written "the villain attacks you", you alway draw boost cards (except if explicitly written like in "I see you") even if its not their phase step 2 ?

Yes, whenever a villain attacks you or schemes, unless it explicitly states they don't draw a boost card, they do. Klaw will still draw 2 as he is attacking.

This also applies to minions that have the Villainous keyword, although none of these have been released yet.

9 hours ago, SpiderMana said:

You can in fact be attacked, but it's relatively rare as the villain doesn't attack you by default when you're in Alter-Ego, and cards like Assault generally have no effect (except for surging).

I know there's at least one encounter card that says the villain attacks you (I think in Mutagen Formula?), but doesn't get a boost card if you're in AE? Another plausible situation is if you're in AE and block for a friend using an Ally, if the boost card does a damage to your Ally and finishes them off before the attack goes through, your AE is the new target of the attack.

Yep the later is what happened with Klaw III. BP Ally (Quake) had to block for Dr strange as he drew a second attack off Gang Up. Concussive Blast dealt one to all my characters and left the rest of the attack undefended. Klaw then drew a 3 Boost and BP went from 6 health in AE to 0. (*note apparently the Rule Book entry for undefended attacks has been changed from Hero to Identity )