Did some looking online and here are some links to ones I found. I tried to match look and gender while searching:

Black Witch: www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp

Courtesan: www.reapermini.com/Miniatures/Dark%20Heaven%20Legends/a-z/03336 or www.reapermini.com/Miniatures/Dark%20Heaven%20Legends/a-z/02749

Dark Servant: Still Looking

Exorcist: Still Looking

Djinn: Still Looking

Fortune Knight: www.reapermini.com/Miniatures/bard/a-z/02186 and www.reapermini.com/Miniatures/bard/a-z/02775 (Even though the pose is off I think these both capture the look and feel)

Goblin Shaman: www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp

Illusionist: www.reapermini.com/Miniatures/Dark%20Heaven%20Legends/a-z/03328

Jester: Still Looking

Magician's Apprentice: Still Looking

Martyr(ess): www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp (you would have to cut off the flail, but done right could be made to look like the broken sword)

Shapeshifter: Composite of plastics mentioned before.

-Salute

JC,

"When you are attacked in battle you may choose to sacrifice (lose) 1 life. You may not do so when you attack. If you do so, characters are treated as if you defeated them, while enemies are destroyed and cannot be taken as a trophy."

Thats better, the You may not do so when you attack is definately more apt for a Martyr.

For the Illusionist I have the following for the second ability:

When you initiate a battle you may conjure a Simulacrum to fight in your place. You do not have time to conjure a Simulacrum if you are attacked. The Simulacrum has your strength and craft but cannot use any objects, trinkets, followers or spells. If the Simulacrum defeats a character, you may take 1 gold or object of your choice but you may not take a life. If the Simulacrum defeats an enemy you cannot use it as a trophy and it is discarded.

Shapeshifter I changed to your version from mine.

I await the rest of your "fixes" and will not print my versions of the cards until I have seen them (so hurry up, surely you've got nothing better to do )

Thanks and kudos to JC, allawi and all other posters in this topic.

H.

Heimdal said:

I can see where you're going with this, and personally I like it better, but it is the wording is somewhat off what people expect, using a non-standard term connected to Battle. I might prefer the following for a little bevity as well.

"When you attack in battle, you may send a similacrum to fight in your in place. You may not do this/so when you are attacked"

Heimdal said:

Oh my... isn't it fun now that we have even more things to list as an expcetions?! But we don't have to list trinkets because they are a subtype of the object type.

I do see where the term "objects" is more standard than "possessions." I wasn't thinking "standard" on that one, sorry. Probably because I move in circles were the types and subtypes of possessions is wider than found in commercial cards.

I like the use "any" there may be rare cases where something might be available to the similacrum (by stretch of the game rules) that actually be possessed by the Illusionist... a rare occurence, but it might happen.

"Your similacrum has your strength and craft but cannont use objects, magic objects, followers, or spells."

SIDE NOTE: I did a little research in similacrums; they are actual a phantasm (a mental abberation) rather than an illusion (a something that is percieved by the sense), which is probably why a Life can't be taken.

If the Simulacrum defeats a character, you may take 1 gold or object of your choice but you may not take a life. If the Simulacrum defeats an enemy you cannot use it as a trophy and it is discarded.

Heimdal said:

Heh heh... hey, wait a minute. I think your doing as much fixing as I am.

Here's my reiteration of what we've done so far, just so others make sure I didn't miss something.

=======
MARTYR

When you attack another character you may choose to make the attack Psychic Combat. You may not do so when you are attacked by another character.

When you are attacked in battle, you may choose to sacrifice (lose) 1 life. You may not do so when you are attacked. If you do so, characters are treated as if you defeated them, while enemies are destroyed and cannot be taken as a trophy.

When you roll a die to pray , you may add 1 to the result.

You are always good; ignore any effect that changes your alignment.

===========
ILLUSIONIST

NOTE: I changed the last sentence in the first ability to further clarify something. It implies that another character defeating the simulacrum in Battle must choose any other victory reward other than taking a life. BUT an additional life can be lost through post Battle conditions, which can occur with certain other characters and enemies. Overall, this whole simulacrum business is very glitchy and convoluted.... but, there it is.

When you attack in Battle, you may conjure a simulacrum to fight in your place. You may not do so when you are attacked. The simulacrum has your Strength and Craft but may not use any objects, magic objects, Followers, or Spells. If it defeats a character, you may take 1 Gold or Object of choice but you may not take a Life. If it defeats an enemy, the enemy is discarded and you do not gain a trophy. If the simulacrum is defeated, you cannot lose a life for losing the battle.

Whenever you encounter an Adventure card, you may use illusion to disguise your Alignment. Roll a die, and on a 4, 5, or 6 the illusion is successful; you may choose to encounter the card by any one Alignment of your choice.

=============
SHAPESHIFTER

When you attack another character, you may choose to make the attack Psychic Combat. You may not do so when you are attacked by another character.

• NOTE: There are additional changes below. The original description does not distinguish what it means by Strength and Craft. Because of this, I know some players will try to weasel into claiming their opponent's full "current" Strength and Craft... including bonuses from objects, followers, etc. This involves an area where the game has always lacked a needed "third" adjective related to character attributes. There is one my and other groups now use to distinguish between three (not two) references to Strength or Craft.
  
• Starting --- (or Value, a too poorly chosen, cloudy term) referring to only what is on the character card
  
• Current --- referring to inclusion of every bonus the character possesses
  
• " Natural " --- referring to starting/value plus only gained tokens/cones

If you defeat another character in Psychic Combat, you may choose to shapeshift . You take on your opponent's natural Strength and Craft (starting value plus tokens/cones) as long as you keep its shape; you cannot use its Special Abilities. If you lose a Life, you revert to your own shape and your own natural Strength and Craft.

• NOTE: This modifying term "Natural" if used on a card might stall some players for a second, but I've added that parenthetic clause above would should make the term instantly clear. Overall, it is not exactly like the original card, so if that doesn't suit, so be it. Everyone here should see what they think of this and the reason why it was added. Comments are welcome.

You may choose to revert to your own shape at any time, including if you are transformed into a toad.

================================
NOW ON TO ANOTHER ONE... OR TWO
================================

===============
GOBLIN SHAMAN

• NOTE: I have only one change on one ability, because I'm not sure of one term's translation. Perhaps someone can clarify if the term should be "Monster" rather than Enemy or Creature. The change I suggest would allow use of a goblin follower against anything but a creature opponent generated by instructions on a space or a non-enemy card. Also, my capitalization my be different than what's on a card. Ignore that part.

When you are attacked in battle by another character or Enemy , you may send a Goblin Follower to fight in your place. [etc.]

===============
FORTUNE KNIGHT

• SIDE NOTE: I really don't like this character. I'm not a fan of the whole "dark" fate notion either, but since it is coming, this character seems to already have that built in... and more. It can used both "light" and "dark" fate for the purpose of "dark" fate. Don't like it at all!
• NOTE: I would like translation clarification of the term "Monster" vs. possible use of Enemy or Creature.

You may spend a Fate token in Battle to force an opponent character or Enemy to re-roll its die.

When you encounter another character, instead of attacking you may challenge fate . You and your opponent each roll a die and add your natural Craft (starting value plus tokens/cones) . If you roll higher than your opponent, then you gain 1 Fate, otherwise you lose 1 Fate or Life by your choice.

• NOTE: Fate is too often abused; i don't see allowing this ability to use craft bonuses from followers, magic objects, etc. to change the character's own unique fate. The same would be applied to the opponent. If others disagree, so be it, since people here are trying to do accurate but clear translation. Also note how I reworded it. If he rolls a tie, he still loses. This further balances his extra gains of Fate on top of extra ways to use Fate.

You may discard a trophy to gain 1 Fate.

• NOTE: though it is part of the original non-official card ... when he whacks a low value Enemy he can exchange it for a Fate?!!?!? Does anyone else think this is excessive for, say, tossing a Strength 1 Boar? For myself, I would change this to replenish or set an amount of trophy "points" for a Fate.
• "Exchange" isn't clear enough where rules for starting Fate value are concerned; it is always gain or replenish for Fate.

Whenever you have a choice whether to roll a die or not, you must always roll the die.

You are always neutral; ignore any effect that changes your alignment.

=========
EXORCIST

You start the game with 1 Spell.

When you attack another character you may choose to make the attack Psychic Combat. You may not do so when you are attacked by another character.

When you defeat a Spirit in Psychic Combat, you may draw a Spell if your current Craft permits you to do so .

You may choose to exorcise any Spirit without resorting to Psychic Combat. If you do so, discard the Spirit; you gain no trophy and you may not draw a Spell.

You may destroy (discard) Magic Objects forbidden to good characters when you draw them or encounter them left on a space . If you do so, you may draw a Spell if your current Craft permits you to do so.

THAT'S ALL FOR TODAY. I AWAIT ALL COMMENTS, SUGGESTIONS, AND COUNTER REVISIONS.

SHAPESHIFTER

If you defeat another character in Psychic Combat, you may choose to shapeshift. You take on your opponent's natural Strength and Craft (starting value plus tokens/cones) as long as you keep its shape; you cannot use its Special Abilities. If you lose a Life, you revert to your own shape and your own natural Strength and Craft.

•NOTE: This modifying term "Natural" if used on a card might stall some players for a second, but I've added that parenthetic clause above would should make the term instantly clear. Overall, it is not exactly like the original card, so if that doesn't suit, so be it. Everyone here should see what they think of this and the reason why it was added. Comments are welcome.

I prefer the original...but thats just my personal taste

You may choose to revert to your own shape at any time, including if you are transformed into a toad.

again I prefer the original just makes it sound more shapeshiftery (new word invented by me).

GOBLIN SHAMAN

When you are attacked in battle by another character or Enemy, you may send a Goblin Follower to fight in your place. [etc.]

Makes sense for it to be Enemy. If he's attacked and may die let it happen to his followers instead thats what they are there for...doesn't matter whats attacking. At least thats how I'd see it if I were a Goblin Shaman..........which by the way I am not.

FORTUNE KNIGHT

JC I'm with you on this I hate this character but for different reasons, I really hate the name it sounds awkward and wrong, and why a knight? Perhaps Vel could explain if there was a back story for this character too.

To me this is more like a good-guy-rogue-like-gambler, just like how Val Kilmer played Doc Holliday in tombstone.

When you encounter another character, instead of attacking you may challenge fate. You and your opponent each roll a die and add your natural Craft (starting value plus tokens/cones). If you roll higher than your opponent, then you gain 1 Fate, otherwise you lose 1 Fate or Life by your choice.

•NOTE: Fate is too often abused; i don't see allowing this ability to use craft bonuses from followers, magic objects, etc. to change the character's own unique fate. The same would be applied to the opponent. If others disagree, so be it, since people here are trying to do accurate but clear translation. Also note how I reworded it. If he rolls a tie, he still loses. This further balances his extra gains of Fate on top of extra ways to use Fate.

I believe it should be craft value (starting craft alone) without anything else.

You may discard a trophy to gain 1 Fate.

•NOTE: though it is part of the original non-official card ... when he whacks a low value Enemy he can exchange it for a Fate?!!?!? Does anyone else think this is excessive for, say, tossing a Strength 1 Boar? For myself, I would change this to replenish or set an amount of trophy "points" for a Fate.
•"Exchange" isn't clear enough where rules for starting Fate value are concerned; it is always gain or replenish for Fate.

It should be replenish 1 fate up to your starting value but this is just my opinion.

EXORCIST

When you defeat a Spirit in Psychic Combat, you may draw a Spell if your current Craft permits you to do so.

Current terminology as per the gypsy is if your craft allows. ie When you defeat a Spirit in psychic combat, you may draw a spell if your craft allows.

You may choose to exorcise any Spirit without resorting to Psychic Combat. If you do so, discard the Spirit; you gain no trophy and you may not draw a Spell.

As per the Priest: You may choose to exorcise any Spirit without resorting to psychic combat. When you destroy a spirit in this manner you may not keep the Enemy as a trophy and you may not gain one spell.

You may destroy (discard) Magic Objects forbidden to good characters when you draw them or encounter them left on a space. If you do so, you may draw a Spell if your current Craft permits you to do so.

As stated above: You may destroy (discard) magic objects forbidden to good characters when you draw them or encounter them left on a space. If you do so, you may draw a spell if your craft allows.

Hope this helps a bit.

H.

Good stuff, H. I only have time for a quick stop right now and will check later or tomorrow. This also might give others a chance to chime in.

My day's schedule shifted, freeing up some sudden time, so I'm back again.

In order to save time in typing long posts, I've put card text into an RTF (Rich Text Format) file hosted HERE in my permanent online DropBox. I hope this is not too inconvenient for anyone to take part in this spin off discussion. The file should open in any word processor or in Mac's TextWrite or Microsoft Write. Copy in anything from the file into a post that you want to discuss. I will post notice when the file content is updated, and give notice when I've finished developing what I think would work best. And lastly, to clarify...

This is about me figuring out what I want to do for card text. It is NOT about me telling others or the group here what to do. Use whatever I come up with if you like, or ignore it entirely.

Heimdal said:

Fair enough.

Heimdal said:

Fair enough... but both clauses for changing (chosen and forced) should use the same term for consistency.

Heimdal said:

Done, but it would be nice if Velhart or someone else could confirm the original German. It could be that the German term translates as either Monster or Enemy, but I don't know.

Heimdal said:

Two other similar possibilites could be Fortunate Knight... or Lucky Knight. The original German for the term "knight" could be double checked as well.

Heimdal said:

The original translation (?) said "current Craft," so it should revert to that instead of "Craft value" if "natural Craft" is unacceptable. The ability appears intended to improve over time, and Craft "value" would flatline it.

Heimdal said:

I agree... for now. The implication of "exchange" would be to "gain" 1 Fate... but I hope that's not the case. Again, a double check of the original term might be helpful.

Heimdal said:

Done. Double check my file and let me know if I missed any instances of this clause.

Heimdal said:

Done... though in this case the standard is unnecessarily wordy.

Heimdal said:

Done... and again, I hope the separate file isn't too inconvenient.

JCHendee said:

JC,

Thanks for that I'll have a look when I get chance later, had a quick look and all looks good to me, with exception to the courtesan but will need velhart or allawi to clarify that one.

Also I have to also point out that I in no way intended to hijack Allawi's and Velharts hard work, if it wasn't for them I wouldn't be typing this now. This is purely and in some way selfishly for my character cards, however as JC has said at least this way others get the chance to use some, all or none of what we have come up with..

H.

One could change the name of Fortune Knight to Fortune Hunter or Soldier of Fortune for thematic reasons, as I did with the Servant of Satan into Dark Servant.

I think you guys are doing an awesome work with this proofing, Im editing my characters according to the changes you guys are working out, of course if I dont agree on a subject or wording, I will not use it in my deck.

Awesome work!

Thanks Allawi, and of course there should be a version of these cards that are as close to the originals as possible ... in meaning and intent.

A lot of our discussed changes are more about clarifying an ability rather than changing it. A few times we've tinker with actual changes, but in most cases not, and we leaned back to the original. Hopefully its clear when we have done so, and if not, just point it out if you like... maybe there isn't a real change and we just need to explain why. In some cases, the original abilities were not well desigined in the first place. Mephisto's characters are in the "fan" classification, not official, and like some done around here (even by me), they bend the standards seen in "commercial" characters from FFG.

Do you have the missing part of the Courtesan's ability that explains the HOW in my notes file?

As to changing the Titles, most people would want something very close to the original "meaning" in the original language. Your suggestions for the Fortune Knight are all fine, but some might lean too far from the original for certain players obsessed with "officialness." I'm not one of them, but I understand that desire. Personally, I approve of the change from Satan's Servant to Dark Servant, as I don't care for the dominantly Christian/Catholic lean in the game where religion is concerned.

Sorry if this is a question asked before, but I can't seem to find the answer.

Where did you find sleves to fit the charachter cards?

Thanks

lovebug009 said:

On ebay Here

Finally got away from the kids and managed to go through the characters. Just a couple of things I noticed.

FORTUNE KNIGHT – still hate him but Allawi I never meant for his name to be changed I think it was just a bad choice in the first place. Whilst going through the characters though it occurred to me if he has Solomans Crown that adds craft passively not just in battle then an object like this should be added when challenging fate. Same goes for followers that add craft passively not just in battle. Still don’t like that ability though. Allawi and Vel again would be nice to know the literal translation on that one.

When you encounter another character, instead of attacking you may challenge fate. You and your opponent each roll a die and add your Craft . If you roll higher than your opponent, then you gain 1 Fate, otherwise you lose 1 Fate or Life by your choice.

COURTESAN – tricky one this need Velhart and Allawi to confirm the first ability is it automatic or on a die roll? Chnaged some of the wording to be more fitting ie flatter – entice, confuse – beguile. Slightly changed the wording of the last ability.

Instead of attacking another character you may entice one of their followers. You may take a follower of your choice.

When you buy something from a stranger you may try to beguile them. Roll one die, and on a 5 or 6 you gain what you want for free.

Whenever you encounter a Stranger, you may try to gain its favour . Roll one die:1-2) the Stranger reacts as if you are of the opposite alignment to the one it favours.?3-4) No effect.?5-6) the Stranger reacts as if you are of the favoured Alignment.

BLACK WITCH – just didn’t see the point in the numbers it’s an either or situation.

You may roll two dice for movement and then either add results together or choose to use only one die result.

DARK SERVANT – just a couple things. When other characters refer to spaces the term on is used (Elf for example). Just added the “and attacks them” for clarification otherwise it’s open to the “it doesn’t attack me just moves to my space I didn’t encounter it” defence.

During movement, you may not land on the City, Tavern, Village, or Castle by choice. If you are forced to move to any of these spaces, you may not encounter any of their options.

When you encounter a Spirit, you may command it to attack another Character. The Spirit immediately moves the space of the chosen Character and attacks them .

JUGGLER – Just a little change as I’m sure Vel said the ability was like the minstrel where you did not evade it but it just didn’t attack you.

Instead of attacking a Monster in Battle, you may try to confuse it. Roll a die and add your current Craft. If the total is higher than the Strength of the Monster, then it will not attack you . If you fail the roll, then you must face it in Battle.

APPRENTICE MAGICIAN – just two changes to keep it in line with other characters.

During the game you always have at least one spell. (Gain a spell each time you cast your last spell). (As per the Wizard)

Whenever you draw a Spell you do not wish to keep, you may discard it and draw another one to replace it, which you must keep. (As per the Philosopher)

Whenever you cast a Spell, roll a die:?1) the Spell fails, and you lose 1 Life.?2) the Spell has no effect.?3-6) the Spell has its normal effect.

On all characters I changed a colon to a bracket:- : to ) when a die is rolled with multiple results as that is how it is done on the official cards. In fact that’s just the Apprentice Wizard and the Courtesan.

Hope this helps a little.

H.

FORTUNE KNIGHT

Agreed on all points... though based on catching another character and choosing to forgo attack and other rewards it isn't going to come up often.

Challenge fate is an awful term here, one that actually means to throw one's self into a situation where the odds of success AND/OR survival are improbable to impossible; you're leaning on pure Luck to save your ass. That isn't what's happening here at all. It's sort of what happens when a Fate point is used (not gained). But I don't have any other term for what is happening, let alone a match for the original term in a foreign language.

Changed mine to match yours.

COURTESAN

Entice is better for the Follower ability. Flattery would not cause a Follower to leave another character. Another small wording change might be in order, as follows

• Instead of attacking another Character, you may entice one of its Follower of your choice and take it for yourself.

Beguile will not work for the buying from Strangers ability; the term is already used on a commercial character - Sorceress, I believe - related to a differently described ability. Flatter should have been used on this ability, but it wasn't. Some other terms also come to mind I'm partial to "sweet-talk".

• When you purchase something from Strangers , you may try to [flatter, adulate, cajole, court, sweet-talk, wheedle] them. Roll one die, and on a 5 or 6 you gain what you want for free.

The final ability is still not specific enough. It need to specify (rather than just infer) types of Stranger who react based on Alignment... otherwise I know there are players who cause delays in a game trying to argue that an alignment/favor reaction would apply where it doesn't. Yes, we all know players like that.

• When you encounter a Stranger who reacts based on your Alignment , you may try to gain its favour. Roll one die: 1-2) the Stranger reacts as if you are of the opposite alignment to the one it favours. 3-4) No effect. 5-6) the Stranger reacts as if you are of its favoured Alignment.

BLACK WITCH

Good enough. Changed mine. Though it is an overgunned ability akin to a limited teleport.

The average character rolls one die and can move in either direction, and therefor it has

• 2 spaces to choose from .
• 1 chance to hit a chosen space in range.

The B.W. can use both dice or either one, for three different results in two directions, and therefor has

• 6 spaces to choose from .
• 3 chances to hit a chosen space in range.
• 1 chance to hit a chosen space at double the standard range.

Youch!

DARK SERVANT

Changed as stated with a minor correction for grammar. See my update file.

JUGGLER

Got it.

APPRENTICE MAGICIAN

During the game you always have at least one spell. (Gain a spell each time you cast your last spell). (As per the Wizard)

Hmmm... and that has always made no sense, so I'm going to disagree on this one. I mean, when else would you always have a spell... before or after the game?

Also "draw" indicates what the player does unto itself, particularly with a Spell. Gain is used often for what happens with Strangers and Events where a Spell is among other choices (Lives, Craft, Strength, etc.) that are typically gains. Spells, like all cards, are drawn; tokens or counters for character attributes and quantities are gained, replentished, healed, etc. The only exception is when a Spell or perhaps a Purchase card (which is chosen, not drawn) are mixed among other options where the general use of "draw" wouldn't work because they aren't all cards. See what I mean?

Plus, to match the A.P.'s other ability that says "draw," this one should use the same term, since they both relate to Spells as cards. There's a point were consistency (of meaning/term not phrasing), concision, and reasoning take precedence (for me) over past bad choices in commercial cards. Especially when there's no viable other reason to stick with the bad wording.

All other changes as you said.

ON COLONS AND PARENTHESIS... don't mind that. Just a habit of mine which would be fixed on final cards.

I've updated the mephisto.rtf ... and I think I'm getting close to an end with it, sans some needed translation clarification, especially on the Courtesan's one ability. Others can let me know what they think and feel free to suggest more changes.

ADDENDUM: If we can't acquire clarification on the Courtesan's seduce ability, I'll go with the following, similar to the Fortunate Knight's challenge fate ...

• Instead of attacking another Character, you may try to seduce it. You each roll a die and add your Craft. If you roll higher, then the other Character loses its next turn and gives you 1 Gold or Object of its choice.

I'm not crazy about the losing of a turn AND something else; it's excessive vs. a straight up combat, but there it is.

Double check... does the Courtesan really start in the City and not the Castle?

JC

Think they are all as good as they are gonna get now.

.....and am I the only one that after playing the wizard lies in bed thinking **** if only the wording were different I could gain a spell now .

Finally the courtesan does start in the city although technically due to the origination of the word it should be in the castle.

Oh and one more thing was looking at the courtesans seduce ability and I was thinking that really the attributes of the target charcters shouldn't have anything to do with it it should be on how well the courtesan practiced her art. So perhaps just a die is rolled and added to her craft......the more inteligent she gets the craftier her seduction. So if added together is 10 or greater (needs a 6 to start with) she succeeds.

but thats only is someone cant give us the original translation.

H.

...and am I the only one that after playing the wizard lies in bed thinking **** if only the wording were different I could gain a spell now .

Finally the courtesan does start in the city although technically due to the origination of the word it should be in the castle.

Personally I knew it had to be the City, but another group member thought the same thing about the Castle. Oh well, she isn't potent enough to survive the Inner Region as a starting point. Another memebr wondered why a she didn't have free healing at the Castle.

... was looking at the courtesans seduce ability and I was thinking that really the attributes of the target charcters shouldn't have anything to do with it it should be on how well the courtesan practiced her art. So perhaps just a die is rolled and added to her craft......the more inteligent she gets the craftier her seduction. So if added together is 10 or greater (needs a 6 to start with) she succeeds. but thats only is someone cant give us the original translation.

Yeah, something was missing in the translated text by the way it is worded. Honestly, character encounters don't happen as often as they did in the old days. 2E had more cards (Followers, Objects, etc.) rigged for movement control (optional +1, +2, etc.) vs 4ER's being about extended range (roll two die and choose or sometimes add them together).

My group tends to lean toward character interacting abilities that work based on challenging against the opponent more than automatics. It makes no sense to them that they build up a character that gets no better at defending itself against so-called "stealing" abilities. But your right, it doesn't apply here. The Courtesan is interacting with the Follower, not the character, and the target number is more autonomous. But target numbers for a roll plus attribute aren't used as standard unless interacting with a character.

Maybe a roll under the Courtesan's Craft? At that, the ability starts off pretty potent with a Craft 4, a 66.6% chance of success. Rolling two die below Craft would be another option, but that would radically reduce her chance of success in the beginning (about 16.7% total at starting for rolling a 2, 3, or 4). And overall, influencing others is her only real edge. So... maybe roll a die below Craft?

Blast! I wish we knew the original sentences and clauses missing from the card. I'd even take a crack at some machine translation to get the gist of the complete ability.

Hi guys, I've got few questions about JC's .rtf file:

1) fortune knight: when you challenge fate, the file says that you gain one fate if you win: do you mean that you "steal" one fate from the other character you encounter or not? and if you lose, the fate token you lose will be taken from the character or not?

2) dark servant cannot use helmet or armour. what about shield?

3) fortune knight again: in the .rtf file JC hasn't written his ability to take a risk on every die roll. What do you think about this ability? I would use it for fate rolls only, not for every roll...

Thanks guys! See ya!

air show said:

answer 1: No, you gain 1 fate from the fate pool. ( otherwise it would be stealing..)

answer 2: The Dark servant can only use a shield.

answer: 3: it says: "every die roll" ( it's not only for fate rolls)

Hi A.S. - first off, don't expect my variations to lean completely to what was translated from the originals. Certain things there just didn't make complete sense, and I'm much more interested in playability than what is "official"... others here have a different viewpoint. In one case, something was missing in how one ability was supposed to be executed (ie. the Courtesan). You can find the originals HERE .

The orignial Fortune (Fortunate) Knight says "gain"... and in the game that never has to do with taking anything from another player if its used consistently. This gives you a criteria to also apply in other situations for interpreting the use of that term.

The original Dark Servant can use a Shield by my interpretation. If he couldn't, then his ability would read "You cannot use Armour " instead of "You cannot use an Armour or a Helmet in Battle." Armour in italics refers to a subtype of card. Without that, the limitation only applies to specific cards as stated, such as Armour and Helmet.

As to the Fortune Knight's take a risk ability, yes, I left it out. It's glitchy AND overgunned, and I know that almost no one in my group or test groups would bother with it. Imagine a character who like any other can use Fate to re-roll a die. Now combine that with a chance to gain a +1 or suffer a -1. And there wasn't even an atttempt to give that ability a decent succinct name.

If he rolls a 1 in combat, he essentially rolls a 0. Then why on earth call such a haphazard bungler a "knight"? If he uses a Fate to reroll, upon losing with a -1 applied, this use of Fate has lost 16.7% potency. Again, why bother calling him "Fortun(ate)"? If he had a +1, and then still had to re-roll, his use of a Fate is 16.7% more powerful. But between those two, its a push, and on average he isn't any better off than just using Fate normally. Honestly, that ability isn't worth all of the nonsense ... and sure isn't Fortunate once you do the math.

And again, this is just my take on it and not all of this is was on those cards. But again, there are some things missing or lost during translation. Look at the Courtesan's first ability... and by what criteria does she succeed? I made up something that seemed reasonable, but I have no idea if its close the original in German.

Addendum : a better way for the "take a risk" ability to be implemented would be by a second die roll, as follows.

"If you are defeated in Battle, you may choose to bend your luck by rolling another die. If you roll 1-3, subtact 1 from your combat total. If you roll 4-6, add 1 to your combat total."

With this approach, there's a condition where the F.K. might consider taking an additional chance. It is also linked somewhat to the skills of a "knight". It eliminated having to make a claim before any die roll, and it empowers the player to know when and if it is worth the risk. It's not much, but it gives the player control over that abilities use if not its outcome. I'll be putting this alternative before my group and test groups to see what they think. At present, they've seen my version and the original translated ones. Interest in the F.K. was minimal as is. The one that captured most everyone's attention was the Juggler (me included).

thanks for clarifications. I agree with JC about the FK, that ability (if translated correctly) is the only one I found absurd in the whole Mephisto deck! but I'm really interested in FK anyway, I like the other abilities. I will print them tomorrow morning.

About Courtesan probably I'll use the psychic combat rules as JC suggests: it seems the best way to use it, unless a new traduction will say something different.

base game+reaper+dungeon+frostmarch+highland(I'll buy it today) + 8characters (from gauntlet exp, plus HEALER, RONOROA ZORO, ORC, VAMPIRE) + MEPHISTO....just few character to deal with...

Hi,

I got the Mephisto cards through the post yesterday and thought I'd have a go at translating the Courtesans mystery ability. The ability is actually automatic and she just steals something and makes the character miss a turn with no dice roll involved. A bit overpowered certainly!

The Apprentice Wizard does not actually have the ability to redraw a spell he doesn't like but instead has the option to draw from the discard pile. This is obviously unplayable as all he would have to do is get one of many good spells and cast them over and over again. I had a think about this and I kind of like the idea that he can pick up Spells cast by other players as he learns how to be a wizard and came up with the following as an alternative:

Whenever you cast or discard a Spell you must place the Spell at the bottom of the discard pile.

Whenever you draw a Spell you may take the top card from the Spell discard pile instead of the Spell deck as long as you did not cast that Spell yourself.

Geoff

Courtesan: this explain why there wasn't clarifications about how to seduce a character. It's a good ability, maybe overpowered also because she has other cool abilities (but it's true she has abilities that affects only other characters, strangers and sellers, nothing about enemies, so probably I'll accept this version).

Apprentice wizard: is it possible that his ability is the same of the Gipsy (when a character use/discard a spell you can take it if your craft allows)? it's a great power but not too unbalanced. and gipsy is one of my favourite ch. .

the first interpretation was cool too (change a spell you don't like? great!!), but if it's not correct....

I thought about using the Gypsy ability for him but that would mean that he always has a spell and can get spells from the discard pile as well

My version means he always has a spell but can choose from the spell deck or the discard pile as per the card but it prevents recycling the same spell over and over. Just imagine if he drew Craft or one of the spells that allows you to take multiple turns. Clearly this unplayable. I think my workaround is in the spirit of the abilities intention.

Geoff

Thanks for some of the clarifications herein. The Courtesan's miss worded ability certainly lead me down the wrong path. I think overall taking a Follower and missing a turn is a bit much. But as pointed out, it only works when encountering other characters. But that unto itself is part of an ongoing design flaw and lack of balance in some characters.

Characters whose abilities are predominately or completely based on encountering other characters are always out of balance. Because with few players at the table they are weak, and with a lot of players they become too strong... or outright annoying. Imagine a game with 6 players, and she gets to your. You lose a Follower automatically, and not you sit their for two rounds / twelve turns. It's a bad design choice overall for smooth play.

C.V. - your approach on the Apprentice is well worth considering. Of course I believe there is a rule that any character can only cast as many spells in one turn as their Craft would allow them to have. This standard rule already curbs endless spell cycling. Another very common house rule is that auto spell draws can only be taken at the beginning or end of a characters own turn... but it is a house rule, not an official one. The two combined definitely put the kibosh on mania spell users.