Had a few questions come up in play last night:

* When a Huge Ship uses Cluster Missiles, can it alternate the missile attacks between the same two ships, or does it have to choose a different one for each individual attack? There's nothing in the rules that would limit Huge Ships from expending all of their Cluster charges in a single round, so the only question is whether you could attack Defender #1 again after performing an attack against Defender #2.

* With Quick-Release Locks, does the entire obstacle have to be placed at range 0 within the rear arc, or does it just have to touch the rear arc on the base?

* Can you use Quick-Release Locks and Seismic Charges in the same Setup phase, or would the Locks count as a Device?

3 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

* When a Huge Ship uses Cluster Missiles, can it alternate the missile attacks between the same two ships, or does it have to choose a different one for each individual attack? There's nothing in the rules that would limit Huge Ships from expending all of their Cluster charges in a single round, so the only question is whether you could attack Defender #1 again after performing an attack against Defender #2.

Actually, yes there is. Cluster missile must fire the 2nd missile at a different ship then the original target. That 2nd missile doesn't cost an energy. Also, if you aren't using Ordinance Tubes you have to fire a missile or torpedo in place of your primary weapon attack. If you're using Ordinance Tube, you can fire a primary attack, one bonus missile attack (and Cluster Missile still only counts as one attack), and one bonus torpedo attack. So you can spend the energy to fire cluster missiles at one target, then a 2nd one at a second ship. You can then chose if you want to fire a torpedo or not (assuming you have one equipped), or a different hardpoint weapon (again assuming you have one equipped).

Since Ordinance Tubes only lists one Missile bonus attack and one Torpedo bonus attack, the upgrade card only lets you use a given torp or missile once per round. It's Cluster Missile it's self that fires the extra missile, which doesn't count against it's charges.

13 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

* When a Huge Ship uses Cluster Missiles, can it alternate the missile attacks between the same two ships, or does it have to choose a different one for each individual attack? There's nothing in the rules that would limit Huge Ships from expending all of their Cluster charges in a single round, so the only question is whether you could attack Defender #1 again after performing an attack against Defender #2.

I don't think the bonus attack on Cluster Missiles works for Huge Ships since the bonus attack seems to be using the Attack: header of the Cluster Missiles and "A huge ship can use each "Bonus Attack:" or "Attack:" header only once per round." This is not very explicitly written in the rules, but since you still have to follow the rules for the Attack: header while making a bonus attack, it makes sense. This would also mean that a ship could not perform a standard attack using a , or upgrade and then use Corsair Refit to perform a bonus attack using that same weapon since that card is a Bonus Attack: header that uses the Attack: header on the upgrade card.

13 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

* With Quick-Release Locks, does the entire obstacle have to be placed at range 0 within the rear arc, or does it just have to touch the rear arc on the base?

The card seems to state, "place 1 cargo crate drift in your " which should mean only a portion of the obstacle needs to be in the rear arc.

13 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

* Can you use Quick-Release Locks and Seismic Charges in the same Setup phase, or would the Locks count as a Device?

Cargo Drift is an asteroid and not a device so you should be able to drop a Seismic charge as well.

5 minutes ago, joeshmoe554 said:

I don't think the bonus attack on Cluster Missiles works for Huge Ships since the bonus attack seems to be using the Attack: header of the Cluster Missiles and "A huge ship can use each "Bonus Attack:" or "Attack:" header only once per round." This is not very explicitly written in the rules, but since you still have to follow the rules for the Attack: header while making a bonus attack, it makes sense. This would also mean that a ship could not perform a standard attack using a , or upgrade and then use Corsair Refit to perform a bonus attack using that same weapon since that card is a Bonus Attack: header that uses the Attack: header on the upgrade card.

Ordinance Tubes specifically prevents you from firing off your equipped missiles and torpedoes as a primary attack. They can only be fired using Ordinance Tube's bonus attack headers. But in exchange they can fire using the Fore arc instead of the Forward arc. Not that this is much of a difference, but it does expand the range of where they can shoot. In effect, it looks like Ordinance Tubes replaces the Attack (Lock) header on your missiles and torpedoes with it's Bonus Attack (lock) headers.

13 minutes ago, joeshmoe554 said:

This would also mean that a ship could not perform a standard attack using a , or upgrade and then use Corsair Refit to perform a bonus attack using that same weapon since that card is a Bonus Attack: header that uses the Attack: header on the upgrade card.

Corsair Refit provides you with its own special weapon you can use in addition to the Attack header on Cluster Missiles since it is a Bonus Attack (as long as you don‘t have Ordonance Tubes equipped which prevent you from using the Attack header on Cluster Missiles).

Ordnance Tubes says, "You can perform and attacks only as bonus attacks." Which means you could use anything that grants a bonus attack with one of those upgrades to fire them. The bonus attack though states, " Bonus Attack: Perform a attack." which would still use the Attack: header on the upgrade since you have to abide by the weapons requirements (lock or focus), you have spend charges it is specifies, and you have to follow the rest of the attack ability such as flipping damage cards with Concussion Missiles or inflicting ion tokens for Ion Missiles. Since the rules state a huge ship can use each " Bonus Attack: " or " Attack: " header only once per round. It would make sense that you cannot use the Attack: header more than once no matter how many bonus attacks are provided to use that Attack: header.

52 minutes ago, joeshmoe554 said:

" Bonus Attack: Perform a attack."

The " Bonus Attack: " header IS your special weapon, as ruled the RR. And since it is a also bonus attack you have to follow all the listed requirements (like having a lock, spending a charge etc.).

Per rules you don't perform the " Attack " header of Cluster Missiles.

1 hour ago, Singulativ said:

The " Bonus Attack: " header IS your special weapon, as ruled the RR. And since it is a also bonus attack you have to follow all the listed requirements (like having a lock, spending a charge etc.).

Per rules you don't perform the " Attack " header of Cluster Missiles.

no. a header is not a weapon. weapons are either primary weapons or upgrades with either an Attack: header or a Bonus Attack: header, range requirements, arc requirements and a number of attack dice. while corsair refit does have a Bonus Attack: header, it does not let you attack in and of itself. you still need a cannon, turret or missile upgrade to perform the attack with. the card text on corsair refit even states that as a bonus attack, you may perform an attack with a cannon, turret or missile upgrade.

without an Attack: or a Bonus Attack: header on an upgrade card, there is no way to perform an attack with that weapon what so ever. any attack made with a special weapon would use one of the headers on that weapon, even if that attack is granted by another ability, such as the Bonus Attack: header on corsair refit.

weapon upgrades are things like snap shot, proton torpedoes, heavy laser cannon, dorsal turret, energy shell charges and so on. they have a number of attack dice, arc and range requirements associated with them, as well as appropriate headers. primary weapons printed on ship cards are also considered weapons. things like corsair refit or veteran tail gunner are not weapons, even if they let you perform bonus attacks. to my knowledge, the only upgrades that contain a Bonus Attack: header without being weapons are the merchant one title upgrade for the c-roc and the ordnance tubes hardpoint upgrade, as well as the mentioned corsair refit configuration upgrade for the c-roc.

1 hour ago, Singulativ said:

The " Bonus Attack: " header IS your special weapon, as ruled the RR. And since it is a also bonus attack you have to follow all the listed requirements (like having a lock, spending a charge etc.).

Per rules you don't perform the " Attack " header of Cluster Missiles.

Not quite. The CR-90 can equip Ordinance Tubes, but since the ship has no torpedo or missile upgrade slots, it'll never be able to use the bonus attacks granted by Ordinance Tubes. That's because Ordinance Tubes modifies your already equipped Torpedo and Missile upgrades and lets you fire them as a Hardpoint bonus attack. But again, without a missile or torpedo upgrade slot... you have nothing to fire from those Ordinance Tubes.

50 minutes ago, meffo said:

no. a header is not a weapon. weapons are either primary weapons or upgrades with either an Attack: header or a Bonus Attack: header, range requirements, arc requirements and a number of attack dice.

The header is the weapon:

„Special weapons appear as “Attack:” headers in card text. They provide additional types of attacks other than a ship’s primary weapon(s).“

If you want to use a special attack you have to select a header.

The rest are just the associated stats for that weapon (denoted on the right side of the card) and requirements (in brackets or described afterwards).

21 minutes ago, Singulativ said:

The header is the weapon:

„Special weapons appear as “Attack:” headers in card text. They provide additional types of attacks other than a ship’s primary weapon(s).“

If you want to use a special attack you have to select a header.

The rest are just the associated stats for that weapon (denoted on the right side of the card) and requirements (in brackets or described afterwards).

nope. that's a very inconsistent interpretation in view of how the term is used throughout the rules reference. headers are not weapons, headers are headers. special weapons have headers, but primary weapons don't. they're still weapons. "weapon" is a game term and we need to treat it as such. weapons have all the associated stats you mention included. i'm sure you're not claiming special weapons without Attack: headers are not weapons, like this baby.

i will also include just a few examples of when the term "weapon" is used in the rules reference below, including your quote.

On 11/15/2019 at 1:26 PM, joeshmoe554 said:

The card seems to state, "place 1 cargo crate drift in your " which should mean only a portion of the obstacle needs to be in the rear arc.

If i can interject, the wording on the card seems poor, but i would say "in" is taken to mean "within", meaning it has to be entirely in the arc.

On 11/15/2019 at 12:59 PM, PhantomFO said:

* Can you use Quick-Release Locks and Seismic Charges in the same Setup phase, or would the Locks count as a Device?

How are you using Quick-release locks during the Setup phase? Do you mean System Phase?
But no, Quick-Release locks is an Illicit, not a Device. So same ruling as Rigged Cargo Chute would apply.

Quote

Q: Does Loose Cargo count as a device or obstacle, since it’s listed on the Device Rules page?

A: It is an obstacle, not a device. (moved from Device page to Obstacle page)

So you can drop both.

2 hours ago, Lyianx said:

If i can interject, the wording on the card seems poor, but i would say "in" is taken to mean "within", meaning it has to be entirely in the arc.

How are you using Quick-release locks during the Setup phase? Do you mean System Phase?
But no, Quick-Release locks is an Illicit, not a Device. So same ruling as Rigged Cargo Chute would apply.

So you can drop both.

Yeah, I meant System phase. I struggle with words sometimes. Even in writing this reply, I actually started with, "Yeah, I meant Setup..." before catching myself and correcting it. In my defense, they're both S-words with a letter T in the middle.

On 11/18/2019 at 9:32 AM, Lyianx said:

If i can interject, the wording on the card seems poor, but i would say "in" is taken to mean "within", meaning it has to be entirely in the arc.

Excellent point. However, let's look at Crack Shot:

"While you perform a primary attack, if the defender is in your [bullseye arc] , before the Neutralize Results step, you may spend 1 to cancel 1 result."

If "in" automatically meant "within," then Crack Shot would never work, because no ship fits completely inside a bullseye arc. I think "in" on Quick-Release Locks must mean "at least partially in."

9 hours ago, Parakitor said:

Excellent point. However, let's look at Crack Shot:

"While you perform a primary attack, if the defender is in your [bullseye arc] , before the Neutralize Results step, you may spend 1 to cancel 1 result."

If "in" automatically meant "within," then Crack Shot would never work, because no ship fits completely inside a bullseye arc. I think "in" on Quick-Release Locks must mean "at least partially in."

Good counter point. And i finally found the clarification i was looking for before (but couldn't find) that clears it up.

RR page 4 under Arc

Quote

A ship is in an arc if any part of its base is inside that area.

Now that just says "ship", and we have seen them differentate between objects before, but i think we can make the logical assumption that an 'object' can meet the same requirements.

So with all of this talk about Bonus Attacks, would this be legal? You equipped the C-ROC with Corsair Refit and Merchant one. You equipped Ion Turret, Heavy Laser Cannon and Cluster Missiles. Is it legal to:

1. Choose to launch a special attack with Ion Turret instead of the primary weapon
2. Spend an energy to perform the Corsair Refit Bonus Attack with the Ion Turret
3. Perform the free Bonus Attack from Merchant One with the Ion Turret

All three are Attacks (1 regular, 2 Bonus) granted by upgrades but they all can trigger the same turret.

30 minutes ago, SILENT FURY said:

So with all of this talk about Bonus Attacks, would this be legal? You equipped the C-ROC with Corsair Refit and Merchant one. You equipped Dorsal Turret, Heavy Laser Cannon and Cluster Missiles. Is it legal to:

1. Choose to launch a special attack with Ion Turret instead of the primary weapon
2. Spend an energy to perform the Corsair Refit Bonus Attack with the Ion Turret
3. Perform the free Bonus Attack from Merchant One with the Ion Turret

All three are Attacks (1 regular, 2 Bonus) granted by upgrades but they all can trigger the same turret.

Your question is a little bit confusing because you included some extra upgrades in the description and then changed the turret type from dorsal to ion.

Assuming you are asking about a C-ROC with Corsair Refit, Merchant One, and an ion cannon turret: Yes , you can fire three times in one round with the ion cannon turret--once as your regular attack, once with the Corsair Refit bonus attack, and once with the Merchant One bonus attack. You're within the rules because you are using different attack/bonus attack headers for each of the three attacks.

2 hours ago, Maui. said:

Your question is a little bit confusing because you included some extra upgrades in the description and then changed the turret type from dorsal to ion.

Assuming you are asking about a C-ROC with Corsair Refit, Merchant One, and an ion cannon turret: Yes , you can fire three times in one round with the ion cannon turret--once as your regular attack, once with the Corsair Refit bonus attack, and once with the Merchant One bonus attack. You're within the rules because you are using different attack/bonus attack headers for each of the three attacks.

I would say the exact opposite because all three of those attacks use the Attack: header on Ion Cannon Turret. Yes there are two other Bonus Attack: headers, but both of those also utilize the Attack: header on the Ion Cannon Turret since they follow all of the rules set forth under that Attack: header. Since you can only use that Attack: header once, you would be prevented from using that Attack: header again when performing the two bonus attacks, even if those bonus attacks are provided by Bonus Attack: headers.

Hmm. I think you are probably right. The wording is a bit confusing, but if the bonus attack uses both the bonus attack header on that upgrade and the attack header on the turret, then you wouldn't be able to use the ion cannon turret more than once in a round.

sorry about the confusion, I had a two builds in my head when I was typing it. You have hit the point I am asking about, is the bonus attack what we base the opportunity to fire on or does it just allow for another attack from the upgrade? We have been playing it as you describe and my C-ROC has to fire from a different weapon with each bonus attack but I cant find a clear rule on it. We have just been assuming. If they wanted us to count the Attack header wouldn't it just say perform another attack and not Bonus Attack?

The Bonus Attack: header allows you to perform a bonus attack during your engagement before your normal attack, after it, or even without it. They could have written "During your engagement, you may perform a bonus attack.", but the Bonus Attack: header is establishing common language for Huge Ship attacks and can act a little bit as a shortcut. It's possible that if an attack is provided by a Bonus Attack: header then it may perform an attack using the same Attack: header it already used since it is super-seceded by the Bonus Attack: header, but I think feels a bit more like trying to guess at the developer's intentions instead of taking the rules as written. I sent in a rules question about it and while I don't expect a response, I'm hoping they clear up the interaction at least a little bit with the rules update in January.

If this is correct, then huge ships cannot use the inherent bonus attack from cluster missiles.

1 hour ago, Maui. said:

If this is correct, then huge ships cannot use the inherent bonus attack from cluster missiles.

That appears to be the case, yes.