Looking at the just released (or soon to be released in the US) Count Dooku and Captain Rex sets I have to say that the Dooku command cards seem to be quite underwhelming when compared against the Rex command cards. Don't get me wrong the 1 and 3 pip cards are good but the 2 pip card seems kind of situational if not straight up trash when compared to any of the Captain Rex command cards. His two pip let's Count Dooku and one other unit get tokens, then you can select to return Dooku's token (as long as it's still face up) to your random pile and also send up to two of your opponents face up tokens to their random pile only if said two units are within range 1 or 2 from Dooku. Any one see a use for his 2 pip card vs the other options CIS armies have available to them?
Underwhelming Dooku Cards
18 minutes ago, Chili-52 said:Looking at the just released (or soon to be released in the US) Count Dooku and Captain Rex sets I have to say that the Dooku command cards seem to be quite underwhelming when compared against the Rex command cards. Don't get me wrong the 1 and 3 pip cards are good but the 2 pip card seems kind of situational if not straight up trash when compared to any of the Captain Rex command cards. His two pip let's Count Dooku and one other unit get tokens, then you can select to return Dooku's token (as long as it's still face up) to your random pile and also send up to two of your opponents face up tokens to their random pile only if said two units are within range 1 or 2 from Dooku. Any one see a use for his 2 pip card vs the other options CIS armies have available to them?
Dooku vs. Rex...Dooku would win. So, I would imagine that because Dooku is sitting at almost Vader levels of destruction, it's okay that Rex's command cards are a bit better.
And like you said...it's only 1 card that is an issue of being situational (which is okay). The same could be said for General Grievous's two pip card (also situational). That 1 pip card is so good, and his 3 pip is also pretty great. Being able to get rid of two face up order tokens could be pretty big depending on what else you have face up order tokens on...sayyy Droidekas!! I would not call this thread "Underwhelming Dooku cards" by any means. Just my two cents....
It's a good card for dealing with 1 pips and other nasty cards that don't give your opponent a lot of activation control like Darkness Decends. The goal with those cards is to use the specific character immediately and forcing potentially their only token out of their order pool back into it will throw their plans out the window.
15 minutes ago, Chili-52 said:Don't get me wrong the 1 and 3 pip cards are good but the 2 pip card seems kind of situational if not straight up trash when compared to any of the Captain Rex command cards. His two pip let's Count Dooku and one other unit get tokens, then you can select to return Dooku's token (as long as it's still face up) to your random pile and also send up to two of your opponents face up tokens to their random pile only if said two units are within range 1 or 2 from Dooku. Any one see a use for his 2 pip card vs the other options CIS armies have available to them?
His 2 works better when you combine it with the amount of control CIS got with their activations. Giving that other unit an activation will pretty much empty out the bag of all infantry tokens with coordinate. So most likely your opponent loses whatever activation he had while there is a really good change you can just pull Dooku right back out of the bag and kill your target.
4 minutes ago, Uchidan1 said:Dooku vs. Rex...Dooku would win. So, I would imagine that because Dooku is sitting at almost Vader levels of destruction, it's okay that Rex's command cards are a bit better.
And like you said...it's only 1 card that is an issue of being situational (which is okay). The same could be said for General Grievous's two pip card (also situational). That 1 pip card is so good, and his 3 pip is also pretty great. Being able to get rid of two face up order tokens could be pretty big depending on what else you have face up order tokens on...sayyy Droidekas!! I would not call this thread "Underwhelming Dooku cards" by any means. Just my two cents....
From what I hear Rex cards may not be the best as well. Seems like he needs range 2 for some of his stuff to work and that means most likley death for him............. But man would I kill for a 90 point commander for CIS right now.
Also Dooku is in an interesting spot in that his main mission is to find commanders (especially force users) and kill them. Grievous would rather melt any other unit and has a bit more support for surrounding units. It should be interesting to see if Dooku takes the place of Grievous (I doubt) or if they are run together with one going for commanders and other outer going for infantry (maybe, but that would be 8 actvactions....0
1 minute ago, RyantheFett said:From what I hear Rex cards may not be the best as well. Seems like he needs range 2 for some of his stuff to work and that means most likley death for him............. But man would I kill for a 90 point commander for CIS right now.
Also Dooku is in an interesting spot in that his main mission is to find commanders (especially force users) and kill them. Grievous would rather melt any other unit and has a bit more support for surrounding units. It should be interesting to see if Dooku takes the place of Grievous (I doubt) or if they are run together with one going for commanders and other outer going for infantry (maybe, but that would be 8 actvactions....0
Dooku is just so **** expensive. I agree a 90 point Nute Gunray would be amazing right now, he could....shoot her or something.
I am gonna try and run Dooku and Grievous, but like you said 8 Activations is going to hurt you unless Grievous can delete some units quick.
Dooku is crazy expensive, especially when he comes with no native charge. It's a bit sad.
1 hour ago, Uchidan1 said:Dooku vs. Rex...Dooku would win. So, I would imagine that because Dooku is sitting at almost Vader levels of destruction, it's okay that Rex's command cards are a bit better.
Dooku is 205 points before upgrades, while Rex is 90. If anything, that means Dooku should have stronger cards.
1 hour ago, Mokoshkana said:Dooku is 205 points before upgrades, while Rex is 90. If anything, that means Dooku should have stronger cards.
You gotta make Rex worth it somehow. Dooku even without command cards is a monster, that scatter is real good.
And...Dooku does have strong cards. All 3 of his cards are very good.
2 hours ago, Chili-52 said:Looking at the just released (or soon to be released in the US) Count Dooku and Captain Rex sets I have to say that the Dooku command cards seem to be quite underwhelming when compared against the Rex command cards. Don't get me wrong the 1 and 3 pip cards are good but the 2 pip card seems kind of situational if not straight up trash when compared to any of the Captain Rex command cards. His two pip let's Count Dooku and one other unit get tokens, then you can select to return Dooku's token (as long as it's still face up) to your random pile and also send up to two of your opponents face up tokens to their random pile only if said two units are within range 1 or 2 from Dooku. Any one see a use for his 2 pip card vs the other options CIS armies have available to them?
Dooku’s 2 pip negates Fire Support and Rex’s 2 pip and many other things that require a face up order token. Pair that with a faction that will only have Dooku or Grievous in its Order Token stack and yeah it’s a really good card. It gives you control to negate other faction’s special abilities and is along the lines of Solo’s command card (Change of Plans), but Solo’s command card only stops the use of an enemy command card for a round, where Dooku negates the use of the card entirely. Strong enough for you?
Dooku’s command cards are about where you would expect for his point cost, powerful. Rex’s 1 pip on the other hand should be compared to Leia, Veers and Krennic, and is just not as good. Rex’s 1 pip means that a 5 health Commander needs to be in range 2 of multiple targets who can then return fire. Making the 1 pip a mixed bag at best (use it and lose Rex) and it’s no where near as good as Coordinated Bombardment, or Maximum Firepower or even giving token control like Voracious Ambition.
There are also several questions about Rex’s 2 pip (that could be a powerful card to redeem his lack lustre 1 pip), that need answers. Can token sharing satisfy the requirements of an aim (the clone description in the RRG states clones can use green tokens “as if they were their own”)? Can you take an aim as an action, or do you need to have one prior to activation? Does the range 4 increase also apply to any unit Fire Supporting the unit that gets the range 4 attack, or do they also need an aim?
Don’t count Dooku’s cards as ineffective, when his are the better of the two commanders (pun intended).
Dooku’s cards have cunning stapled to them....seems good
Ummm situational?
Break Fire support
Cis ai abuse
Strip melee unit orders
take your pick on anything else that requires a face up order token....
it will have varying effectiveness, but there's no army it can't be a game breaker against if played correctly.......
Breaking Brains And Brawn seems pretty good.
12 minutes ago, costi said:Breaking Brains And Brawn seems pretty good.
Except it does nothing to prevent it
Currently it affects: Common Cause (Chewie's 1pip), Complete the Mission (Jyn's 3-pip), Deploy the Garrison (Krennic's 2-pip - if you're blue player) Supreme Commander (Grevious' 2pip), Eat this, Clankers! (Rex's 2pip) and You Can Call Me Captain (Rex's 1 -pip). It also breaks Fire Support, as mentioned, as well as disrupts units with AI.
Of course, removing a faceup unit token is powerful by itself, so no need to worry if opponent just plays a simple Ambush
21 minutes ago, Shanturin said:Except it does nothing to prevent it
Of course, removing a faceup unit token is powerful by itself, so no need to worry if opponent just plays a simple Ambush
Do you know where in the Rules Reference it is clarified that Blue player resolves card effects with the same timing first instead of the player who won priority? Couldn't find something either way.
Other affected command cards:
New Ways to Motivate Them (Vader 2pip)
Reckless Diversion (Han 2pip)
Somebody Has To Save Our Skins (Leia 3pip)
I get that removing face up tokens is powerful, as it screws with your opponent's order control. The problem I see is that all those situations people have mentioned above will happen very rarely. You don't get to pick whichever face up tokens you want to send back into the pile. You can only select up to 2 face up tokens at range 1 or 2 from Dooku. It's not an automatic like Hans card. The range limitation is what worries me. Am I reading the card wrong?
Edited by Chili-52Spelling error
1 hour ago, Decarior said:Do you know where in the Rules Reference it is clarified that Blue player resolves card effects with the same timing first instead of the player who won priority?
It's not explicitly stated in the rules (trust me, I sought). There is however, an official ruling, that states "
As a general rule, if two players' command cards have simultaneous effects, the blue player resolves the effects of their command card first.
" - link below. The question was about simultaneous timing of "when revealed" trigger, however in the lack of other regulations (the rules only resolve conflicts between command cards with "no specific timing") it is our only clue what to do
This is definitely an omission in the rules and should be amended.
1 hour ago, Decarior said:Other affected command cards:
New Ways to Motivate Them (Vader 2pip)
Reckless Diversion (Han 2pip)
Somebody Has To Save Our Skins (Leia 3pip)
Good catches, I initially dismissed 3pips and non-Cunning 2pips as I thought Double the Fall happened in Command Phase
3 hours ago, Decarior said:Do you know where in the Rules Reference it is clarified that Blue player resolves card effects with the same timing first instead of the player who won priority? Couldn't find something either way.
Other affected command cards:
New Ways to Motivate Them (Vader 2pip)
Reckless Diversion (Han 2pip)
Somebody Has To Save Our Skins (Leia 3pip)
It also affects Strict Orders.
12 hours ago, Memorare said:Dooku is crazy expensive, especially when he comes with no native charge. It's a bit sad.
He has relentless for the turn he most likely needs it, give him force push and he'll be in the thick of meelee quite often
About Dookus 2pip.
Imagine "Son of Skywalker", pretty easy card to predict, put Luke back in the bag with the other 9 to 10 activations and see how long it takes for him to be drawn.
It is a strong card indeed.
1 minute ago, landoro said:About Dookus 2pip.
Imagine "Son of Skywalker", pretty easy card to predict, put Luke back in the bag with the other 9 to 10 activations and see how long it takes for him to be drawn.
It is a strong card indeed.
*pulls Luke very first pool*
Joking aside I agree dookus 2 pip can be used to great effect if used properly.
18 minutes ago, landoro said:About Dookus 2pip.
Imagine "Son of Skywalker", pretty easy card to predict, put Luke back in the bag with the other 9 to 10 activations and see how long it takes for him to be drawn.
It is a strong card indeed.
Especially since CIS will have perfect activation control. Even if you bounce Dooku's token back to the bag he will likely be the only token in there.
Pictures for reference
21 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:Pictures for reference
The quotes alone make me it hard for me to believe these cards are underwhleming
18 minutes ago, lunitic501 said:21 minutes ago, landoro said:About Dookus 2pip.
Imagine "Son of Skywalker", pretty easy card to predict, put Luke back in the bag with the other 9 to 10 activations and see how long it takes for him to be drawn.
It is a strong card indeed.
*pulls Luke very first pool*
Joking aside I agree dookus 2 pip can be used to great effect if used properly.
I can bet money this will happen way more then it ever should lol.
I knew it was good, but when you think of how bad you can just screw some of the best pips in the game it really is a good card. I just wonder how good he will be in a meta that looks like they rather 10 units and more support commanders.