A few of my PCs are recently Force Sensitive (originally EOTE characters who bought into FS Exile spec), and they are on an adventure which will eventually end up netting them a holocron. They both are interested in lightsabers, but I’m concerned forcing them to spend 40xp on a lightsaber spec, plus another 15 for the “Form” talent is a high tax to do anything with the weapon. Especially since that bumps their next spec to 50xp.

So I was thinking of making the holocron give Lightsaber as a career skill, and then instead of another career skill, let them take the “Renegade Form” talent for 15 or 20 xp. Does that sound balanced, or crazy OP?

You're the GM. Go to town.

Having a holocron give a rank in a skill, or even giving a career skill to a player isn't overly OP. Not sure about the renegade form but for what you are asking in exchange, it seems fine (I'd probably go 10-15 though).

Consider the long term ramifications though (if you plan on playing long term). Giving the lightsaber career skill lessens the benefits of picking up another career. It also removes the impact of the choices the players make. Let's say they all get to the point where they can pick a new spec. Some want to really focus on the saber and take appropriate specs. Others want to focus on something else and give up their dream of mastering a saber for slightly cheaper. Renegade form has a similar effect. Those that focus on combat won't really be better at combat than those that focused on other specs...their investment into a combat spec doesn't pay back the dividends they were expecting when the scholars in the bunch are doing the same kind of damage.

Keep in mind that the difference between career and non-career skills is ultimately just 25xp.

Honestly, everything considered. I'd use it to just give them one rank in sabers. It was an instructional video on the basics of saber handling...like what yoda was teaching to the younglings...in fact, that's what it would be. A star wars equivalent of a jazzercise for kids with Richard Simmons. Saber basics for Kidz! with Yoda. The Jedi attempted to cut operating costs at outlying Jedi temples by using instructional holocrons, but after many lost limbs they decided they needed to stick with real life trainers. The thing talks down to the players and is honestly insulting to their intelligence, but if they stick it out, they get a rank in sabers.

That way any future choices still have an impact.

But again, you're the GM, do what feels right for you, or makes the game the most enjoyable for your players.

It is a bit good, especially since the PC doesn't really have to pay anything to get the benefit of the talent.

Granted, the corebook itself states that proper holocrons* can do all sorts of things, like grant bonus talents, extra skill ranks, or even access to Force powers they haven't purchased, provided the PC has that holocron on them at the time. Also, a holocron is meant to be a fairly rare and certainly wondrous artifact, the sort of thing that PCs generally don't encounter more than once in most campaigns.

As kmanweiss said, it's your game, so if you feel comfortable with doing so, then go for it.

*The holocrons that PCs get as a starting resource are considered lesser holocrons, as their only perk is to provide a couple of bonus career skills.

On 11/12/2019 at 2:00 PM, cvtheoman said:

A few of my PCs are recently Force Sensitive (originally EOTE characters who bought into FS Exile spec), and they are on an adventure which will eventually end up netting them a holocron. They both are interested in lightsabers, but I’m concerned forcing them to spend 40xp on a lightsaber spec, plus another 15 for the “Form” talent is a high tax to do anything with the weapon. Especially since that bumps their next spec to 50xp.

So I was thinking of making the holocron give Lightsaber as a career skill, and then instead of another career skill, let them take the “Renegade Form” talent for 15 or 20 xp. Does that sound balanced, or crazy OP?

First off, you don't need to have any talents or a lightsaber specific specialization to "do anything with the weapon". Just having a skill rank or 2, with a decent characteristic, is MORE than enough to be terrifyingly lethal with one of those glowsticks of death. I know this from personal experience. I made a Healer Jedi, and the only real "lightsaber" talent he had, was the one that let him use his Intelligence, instead of brawn for the dice pool. I gave him one...ONE rank in skill, to reflect him having the basics for combat training. That's it. No special, flashy talents that made him a twirling techno god of death. Just where he had 3 Green and 1 Yellow (4 Int, 1 Skill). His first combat situation, he outright killed 3 minions in a group with one attack......ONE. He got a crit (instakill), and enough damage+successes to eat the other 2 alive.

So don't really sweat the talent tree stuff. If they want to be all flashy and cool looking, then yeah, they need the talents. If they just want to be effective with a lightsaber, skill ranks will be more than sufficient for that purpose.

As to whether giving them lightsaber as a career skill is OP or not. No, but even if it was, who cares? It's your table, if everyone is on board, it doesn't matter. If it increases the Fun Meter, it's good.

Also, there is precedent for lightsaber related knowledge in a holocron. There is an early episode of Rebels, where Ezra is watching a tutorial hologram of Anakin, teaching the basics of lightsaber reflect/deflect. It's clearly framed as something he did so that it could be given to people without said knowledge, to improve their defenses. So yeah, I don't see why it would be out of theme to have a JEDI HOLOCRON, have Jedi related stuff in it.

Late to the party, I know, but... I recently had the Force Sensitive Emergent PC in my group come across some old Padawan training manuals and whatnot and a lightsaber, and ruled (inspired by the Mentor rules in Disciples of Harmony ) that the texts let the character self-study Lightsaber up to Rank 2 as if it was a career skill. That hasn't broken the game yet...

1 hour ago, angelman2 said:

Late to the party, I know, but... I recently had the Force Sensitive Emergent PC in my group come across some old Padawan training manuals and whatnot and a lightsaber, and ruled (inspired by the Mentor rules in Disciples of Harmony ) that the texts let the character self-study Lightsaber up to Rank 2 as if it was a career skill. That hasn't broken the game yet...

I've done the "you can by a rank in Skill X at a discounted rate" a couple of times in my now concluded F&D campaign, though it was never the Lightsaber skill. I think the skills in question were Discipline and Medicine (they were at what amounted to an ancient Jedi spiritual retreat/recovery center that was attended to by an ancient holocron personality). For a different campaign, the GM let anyone that wanted buy a discounted rank of Knowledge (Galactic Lore) as we'd spent several weeks at a university doing research, but only if for those PCs that two or less ranks in the skill.

In none of the cases did it cause any problems., and with limiting the purchase of Lightsaber as what amounts to a free career skill to only the first two ranks, I don't think what you did would cause any long-term problems. And if the PC does later on pick up a specialization that offers Lightsaber as a career skill, there won't be any "sour grapes" feelings about being "cheated" out of XP since they already bought those two skill ranks at the career skill cost rather than the non-career cost.

I would say not make it a career skill (for bookkeeping purposes) and just allow the player(s) to spend XP as if it were a career skill as long as they are studying with it. Also, maybe put a cap on the skill rank the holocron can provide (the Sith/Jedi was only Rank 5 and can only be helpful up to that point, etc.). That way they do not just ditch the holocron after learning Rank 1.

Not sure what OP meant about "Form Talent". Signature ability?

I believe the OP meant the talent that lets a Jedi use an ability other than Brawn with their lightsabre.