21 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Children often dont grasp proportion.

He's not a child but a fictional character in a story, and everything it does is part of the writer telling the story. It went straight for the force choke when it didn't do so with the mudhorn.

Just now, micheldebruyn said:

He's not a child but a fictional character in a story, and everything it does is part of the writer telling the story. It went straight for the force choke when it didn't do so with the mudhorn.

It is based on a childs behavior.

1 hour ago, micheldebruyn said:

When you can levitate a mudhorn, you don't have to go for the kill if you just want to protect.

He might have been trying to do the same thing he did with the mudhorn. He could very well have been trying to kill it with a force choke, but couldn't pull it off because it's a **** big animal.

I think the Child understands and processes a lot more than the other characters think - I'm curious how the development of his species works, and if perhaps the Force-sensitivity allows them a heightened ability to be cognizant of things, even before they can speak.

41 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

It is based on a childs behavior.

It's also based on what the audience knows about dark side behaviour. This is a story, not a documentary.

Perhaps it is to show that Yoda's species simply uses the force naturally, in pretty much all of its forms, without necessarily going Dark Side.

I've long been of the opinion that there isn't a light or dark side to the Force. Rather, that is a perspective imposed on the infinite Force by the limited beings who experience it. Rather, those who use the Force have light and dark sides. Any imbalance in the Force, or need to re-balance the Force, is about those who are using it. The use of Force choke is something we, the viewers, have long associated with Dark Side users. Luke uses Force choke briefly at the beginning of ROTJ and he wasn't a dark side user. It could represent struggle, or temptation, or being on the edge until the throne room, but it did not, in of itself, make him a dark side user. The emotions and motives driving Force use is far more important than the specific technical application, IMO.

Baby Yoda appears to be re-actively using the Force out of instinct and intuition. He is also, based on what we saw at the end of the last episode, still leaning what he can and can't do (the "did I do that?" reaction when Zero's head exploded before he droid collapsed and we see the Mandalorian with a smoking blaster behind him). I do think he's somewhat more developed than the other character's realize, but his applications of the Force don't appear to have any rooted "light side" or "dark side" motivations. He was reacting to the aggressive emotions and interpersonal struggle he sensed during the arm-wrestling contest and, due to misinterpretation, defending a person the Mandalorian. In that sense, Baby Yoda's ability to sense the emotions without understanding the nuance and context they are unfolding in, is very interesting.

I interpret this as a more innate and developmentally rooted expression of the training we see Anakin, Luke, and Rey going through with an added complication: Baby Yoda doesn't need to only learn to control his own emotions, but has to do so as he is learning to interpret and understand the emotions of others. He may also have to learn how to separate the emotions he's sensing from his own. A Jedi needs to feel, but he also needs to know what he's feeling, and what to do with it.

1 hour ago, StarkJunior said:

I think the Child understands and processes a lot more than the other characters think - I'm curious how the development of his species works, and if perhaps the Force-sensitivity allows them a heightened ability to be cognizant of things, even before they can speak.

Agreed that such is possible, but at the same time it's also been kept in what amounts to captivity with probably little to no interaction with the larger galaxy. And most small children are if nothing else very curious about the world around them; note the child's messing with the Razorcrest's controls even though it should be aware that doing so is a bad idea.

With regards to Cara, it probably didn't really have a frame of reference to say "this is just a friendly game between two burly types," especially if you consider the events of the previous episode where a bunch of similarly aggressive personality types tried to hurt its guardian. Having worked in the past with autistic children, I can see how a child-like creature with that sort of power could misinterpret a friendly arm-wrestling contest into something more serious, and use it's inherent powers to (in its view) protect the figure that has been protecting it.

3 minutes ago, Vondy said:

I've long been of the opinion that there isn't a light or dark side to the Force.

Depending on how much stock you put in it, Lucas himself said that what's referred to as the dark side is really more of a corruption of the Force, with him likening it to a cancerous tumor.

The New Jedi Order series tried to go the route of "there is no dark side, just what your intentions are," but that ultimately got nixed by Lucasfilm to the extent that during the Legacy of the Force series (where Jacen Solo, the ultimate proponent of that belief, ended up going full-blown Sith Lord) said belief was shown to be false, and that using evil powers (namely Force lightning but also Force chokes) was still evil no matter what your intent was. Under Disney's ownership, LFL does seem to swinging back to the notion one's intent when using the Force is at the very least relevant to whether that usage of the Force is good/light or evil/dark.

13 minutes ago, Vondy said:

Luke uses Force choke briefly at the beginning of ROTJ and he wasn't a dark side user.

There is a big debate surrounding this, from what I've heard, but I'm pretty sure that he was using what amounted to a Jedi mind-trick. In the Thrawn novels, he references touching their minds. When they reach back up toward their throat/chest area, it looked more to me like a sort of salute, where they put their fist over their chest, rather than grasping at their throats. Also, there wasn't the "whoosh" that is generally associated with force-choke.

13 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

There is a big debate surrounding this, from what I've heard, but I'm pretty sure that he was using what amounted to a Jedi mind-trick. In the Thrawn novels, he references touching their minds. When they reach back up toward their throat/chest area, it looked more to me like a sort of salute, where they put their fist over their chest, rather than grasping at their throats. Also, there wasn't the "whoosh" that is generally associated with force-choke.

In the novelisation he explicitly chokes them, and more severely than what was shown on-screen, all of the guards falling to their knees, clutching their throats...

24 minutes ago, micheldebruyn said:

In the novelisation he explicitly chokes them, and more severely than what was shown on-screen, all of the guards falling to their knees, clutching their throats...

Even in the film, the guards make gasping noises like they're being strangled, though not quite as extreme as when Vader does it. Which is likely due to Luke not aiming to kill, simply dissuade the guards from interfering, where Vader pretty much went for the kill each time, with the sole on-film exception being him sparring Motti, but only after Tarkin called him off.

44 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

There is a big debate surrounding this, from what I've heard, but I'm pretty sure that he was using what amounted to a Jedi mind-trick. In the Thrawn novels, he references touching their minds. When they reach back up toward their throat/chest area, it looked more to me like a sort of salute, where they put their fist over their chest, rather than grasping at their throats. Also, there wasn't the "whoosh" that is generally associated with force-choke.

There is way more smoke than fire in that "big" debate. From a literary and cinema criticism perspective Lucas was seeking to create parallels between Luke and Vader to buttress the final choice Luke has to make. He strides in wearing all black, uses force choke, is driven by ostensibly good emotions that could lead him to dark places, and later pointedly looks in horror at his own bionic hand after he chops his father's hand off. Luke has to make the ultimate decision to become a Jedi: do I become my father or redeem him? And, how do I do that while staying true to my Jedi training and the "light side" of the Force.

The notion that he just used a variation of Jedi Mind Trick is narratively vacuous and robs the movie of the intense poignancy of what ultimately makes Luke a Jedi Knight. He's not really a Jedi Knight at the beginning of the movie n Jabba's Palace (irrespective of what he calls himself). He becomes a true Jedi Knight in the Throne Room because that was his Jedi Trial. Some people want to live in a world filled only with White Hats and Black Hats and are uncomfortable grappling with complex moral and spiritual questions. You'd really have to want to see Luke using something other than Force Choke to interpret it as Mind Trick. Occam's Spoon is enough to settle this debate.

And, yeah, the novelization is explicit about what it is, if you buy into that sort of thing.

Bringing it back to the situation at hand.... How will our protagonist(s) overcome 6x Death Troopers, several minion groups of stormtroopers, and the BBEG?

If memory serves, our Rogue One heroes (at least Maiz and Chirrut and a handful of Rebel minions) did not do well against “just” half a dozen death troopers....

And is there a “just kidding” coming with Kuill? The line about IG-11 being “not a hunter, but he WILL protect” HAD to be foreshadowing. So what does that final scene REALLY show?

Mando has made overt gestures to both Cara and Kuill to join his crew. Will Season 2 see a party of “Edge” PCs as the main characters?

How did the Covert (sp) allow all these storm troopers to occupy the town? And does the (late) antagonist STILL not know there is a PLATOON of mando’s in town after that Covert v. The Guild shoot out?

12 minutes ago, Khyrith said:

How did the Covert (sp) allow all these storm troopers to occupy the town? And does the (late) antagonist STILL not know there is a PLATOON of mando’s in town after that Covert v. The Guild shoot out?

They left.

15 minutes ago, Sturn said:

They left.

Did they? I got a feeling they’re gonna show up in Ep8.

It was discussed on-screen that they were going to have to move the Covert after the battle with the bounty hunter guild. I think it had something to do with them no longer being "covert". 😁

20 minutes ago, Khyrith said:

Did they? I got a feeling they’re gonna show up in Ep8.

You were talking about them no longer being in the "town". I meant they left the town, not the Galaxy. I hope they do show back up sometime, possibly season 2?

1 hour ago, Sturn said:

It was discussed on-screen that they were going to have to move the Covert after the battle with the bounty hunter guild. I think it had something to do with them no longer being "covert". 😁

You were talking about them no longer being in the "town". I meant they left the town, not the Galaxy. I hope they do show back up sometime, possibly season 2?

The Mandalorian has a jet pack in the series preview scenes he has to get that somehow next episode.

Mandalorians hate Imperials more than anything in the galaxy. A truck load of Imperials just showed up to a town where a nest of Mandalorians just left. Something tells me the Rocketeers are not that far away.

I severely doubt we'll get a Covert cavalry rescue.

1) They explicitly said the Covert would have to be relocated.

2) We've already had a Covert cavalry rescue this season. How lame would it be to just do that again? It'd be the laziest kind of writing.

On 12/19/2019 at 8:38 PM, GlowingDice said:

The Devaronian wasn’t phased by Mando’s flame thrower in Episode 6. I’m taking it as possibly meaning in the new canon, they’re heat/flame resistant. Given this is the first appearance of one on-screen since the cantina in ANH, it’s an easy detail to add and goes with the devilish look of the species.

So what do you think? Is this an ability newly revealed about the species or was this particular Devaronian just one tough SoB?

Well, going by the way that SW loves the planet of the hats trope and treats every second of on screen time as the gospel of Star Wars, Devaronians are all now as strong as wookiees and fire resistant.

8 hours ago, Ahrimon said:

Well, going by the way that SW loves the planet of the hats trope and treats every second of on screen time as the gospel of Star Wars, Devaronians are all now as strong as wookiees and fire resistant.

Not according to the other appearances of Devaronians. They weren't in the exact same circumstances (i.e. flamethrower to the face), but they were not played up as being super durable or strong, least wise not much more than your average character. That said, fire resistant would make sense out-of-universe considering that they are based off of devils, and it is plausible that they are, at least somewhat.

a few points...

oh noes, baby yoda did the thing vader did! he must be evil! (also nature of force discussion)

The perspective strict adherence of LIGHT SIDE and DARK SIDE powers is largely a necessary trope that's been implemented in games. This is mainly to help codify the actions of players to assist in their role play.
- Since micro-managing thoughts is stupid, most games rely more on clearly defined actions to direct your good/bad side alignment
- in order to further clarify this, providing rewards based on progression down each side seems natural. hence the introduction of powers specific to each side

But as mentioned above ... the force itself isn't black and white ... which is a stumbling block for literalists on internet forums. It isn't a pure dogmatic thing, and it isn't a nihilisticly neutral thing either, it's kinda somewhere in between in the same way most things in reality are. The force does seem capable of become stained with emotions (good and bad) much like the physical wells of dark force energy seen in Empire Strikes Back and The Last Jedi - and on the same point it's the same pool that all sides tap into.

So, can a good force user force choke a =====? Yes.
- Baby Yoda did it
- Anakin did it both on film as well as in the clone wars before his proper descent to the dark side

of course, choking someone isn't the most sanitary way to protect and is probably a little bit evil ... but it's definitly less evil/cruel than frying their body with x,000 volts of force-electricity.

Besides, as one of my brothers with kids pointed out = yeah, giving a child that much power before they have full maturity is absolutely terrifying! lol

planet of hats and devaronians (here we go with this bullcrap again)

WHO CARES

Seriously. 8I What is this, like some sort of contest to see who can tip their fedora the hardest in order to prove their skills as a writer or their worth of being diversely-woke? I see this "planet of hats" discussion point and I just assume people making it have spent too much time on the internet.

There's multiple planets of ice (hoth and illum)! There's multiple water planets (mon cal and the clone-trooper homeworld). There's multiple gas planets (bespin's one, the name of the others are escaping me). There's multiple desert planets (kuiill's planet and tatooine). There's multiple swamp planets (Nal Hutta and Dagobah). There's multiple lava planets (Mustafaar, and now we know that Nevarro is one as well). There's probably multiple city-planets like Courscant.

Do you see what this is? It's CONSISTENCY OF IN-WORLD LOGIC. This means they've done a proper job of establishing their own set of rules and expectations for the audience.

Believe it or not - this is good writing. Creating rules and abiding by them is what you need to do as a writer.

If that's a hang-up, you should probably switch fandoms. I wouldn't want to watch a film with you since you'd probably verbally nitpick everything.

Besides, I think devaronians being immune/resistent to fire just fits the bill too hard to be mad about it. I'm sure as **** house-ruling it into my campaign if someone picks a devaronian as their hero.

it's a fictional character (yoda baby and child perspective)

I'm calling that comment out as made by someone who wanted attention to themselves by positing a contrarian opinion to get others talking. It was entirely dismissive of the quoted forum post and devoid any real insight other than a copy/paste opinion gathered from a college professor or a twitter/tumblr post.

That initial about "children being poor judges of size" was a reference to Luke on Dagobah. Luke believed that using the force to move his downed XWing was different than using the force to move rocks. As we've found out in films: it isn't. So the concept of children being poor judges of size has relevance, as it likely means the child didn't have the same cognitive block that was preventing Luke from moving a large object.

2 minutes ago, thinkbomb said:

- Anakin did it both on film as well as in the clone wars before his proper descent to the dark side

Generally, this was to show him tapping into or descending towards the Dark Side though.

5 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Generally, this was to show him tapping into or descending towards the Dark Side though.

Thinking about it = same argument could be made regarding how Darth Maul kept himself alive for several years before being rescued.

While Maul was clearly TOO ANGRY TO DIE (which I still love) it's still pretty much force healing. I mean, he was giving himself life-healing ... which some purists would see as a light-side only power (and consequently defend this as some far-stretch excuse that it's not purely healing)... I kinda see it he was tapping into the strongest force-emotion he had (RAGE) in order to channel this force-healing to keep himself alive.

I think this works better when viewed as a soft system rather than a hard one, easier to roll with it.