Notional Huge Ship Builds
3 hours ago, ChahDresh said:The Republic CR-90 has a bit more trouble generating enough energy to power this build. Tibanna Reserves seem the obvious solution, but a big ship's actions are at an extraordinary premium; dipping into the Reserves is sure to compromise either your offense (no mods to your attacks) or defense (no reinforce). Maybe you babysit the CR-90 with a Battle Meditation Jedi Knight? The points for all of this is becoming prohibitive. Maybe just keep the CR-90 in Sinker's side arc and hope for the best. Or, downgrade the Turbolaser to an Ion Cannon Battery. It's a solid weapon even if it doesn't have the OMGWTFLOL potential of the Turbolaser.
I don't think this will work like you think it will. How often will you be doing a purple Coordinate to get an extra action on a Republic CR-90 with a 2nd CR-90 also on the field and within range in order for Battle Meditation to work?
Also, you got that wrong. It's not "OMGWTFLOL", it's "OMGWTFBBQM8"
1 hour ago, Faerie1979 said:I don't think this will work like you think it will. How often will you be doing a purple Coordinate to get an extra action on a Republic CR-90 with a 2nd CR-90 also on the field and within range in order for Battle Meditation to work?
Battle Meditation gives you the option to coordinate an additional ship of the same type. It's a "may" situation. You can coordinate one ship just fine. That said, at 44 points minimum, it's probably a poor investment. I was just spitballing at that point.
7 hours ago, ChahDresh said:CR-90 CORRELLIAN CORVETTE-Stalwart Captain, Targeting Battery, Turbolaser Battery, Damage Control Team, Optimized Power Core, Nien Nunb (Rebels only)… 190The core of this build is Nien Nunb plus Optimized Power Core giving you a constant three Energy per turn, allowing you to take Turbolaser shots every round. The Targeting Battery is there to ensure you've got the lock you need to shoot (and modify) the Turbolaser.
If you are firing the Targeting Computer you won't be able to sustain firing the Turbolaser every round as you will be draining more Energy than you will refresh each round. If you end up facing an enemy list that had zero capital ships and only lots of Wings than you might be in trouble.
QuoteRAIDER CORVETTE--Ordnance Ahoy: Corvus (Empire only), Proton Torpedoes, Concussion Missiles, Ordnance Tubes, Targeting Battery, Bombardment Specialists, Admiral Sloane (Empire only)… 198Time will tell if it makes sense to add Optimized Power Core and Ordnance Specialists. Because the Raider really wants to keep everyone in front of it, I think you may end up doing the stall and 0-bank maneuvers a lot, making the OPC pointless. As for Ordnance Specialists. how many shots do we think we're going to get? Are we really going to be reloading much? Can we afford the energy costs of a mega-reload? Only experience will help us know. In the meantime, Damage Control Team is worth considering. (It's a mere one point difference between it and Ordnance Specialists.)Really, though, you only need one team of any kind, because we want some way to get the Calculate action-so that Corvus can give us another for free. It works especially nicely in conjunction with Bombardment Specialists. Shooting at range 4 gives two bonus dice to the defender. unless you're ignoring range bonuses with ordnance shots!I really believe we should lean into the ordnance identity of the Raider, if for no other reason than we're paying for the slots already. I want to test Pro Torps against shieldless targets, and then Concussion Missiles to flip crits again, all at range 4 without range bonuses. Targeting Battery, as with the Correllian Corvette, is a must-have to get the locks necessary to pull this off. Sloane, like Leia, is a really good idea in this format regardless of the carrier ship. Because the Raider is so expensive, we may not have points for a separate Sloane-carrier, so plopping her on the Raider is a shortcut. Sloane also directly benefits the Raider. You have ways to get two locks, but you have four shots you want to take. Passive mods, allowing you to conserve those locks to power your ordnance, are a must. I'm not crazy about PerCop because, again, I believe we will be reinforcing an awful lot, and our other action is already spoken for (lock).The Corvus title is there mainly for the 3-point no-brainer calculates. If you want to dock a ship, Mauler Mithel is my go-to. The Raider's weakness is getting flanked. Mauler can feast on fools that are trying to get close, for a reasonable price.Want a cheaper alternative?--Corvus, Damage Control Team, Targeting Battery, Ion Cannon Battery. 171It's hard to bullseye things with this ship. unless those things are ionized. Then they're toast. Boom! Targeting Battery gives you another three-dice swing while strongly modifying the Ion shot. That's a good amount of dakka for 171 points (plus 9 for Sloane if she's not hanging elsewhere), and it's much simpler/less conditional than the ordnance build. Having a base energy expenditure of only 2 (from your bonus attacks) lets you repeatedly stall or 0-bank to control range.You can do Turbolaser builds with the Raider, but I suspect the Raider has a harder time with range control than the CR-90, and certainly can't abuse Optimized Power Core like the Correllian ship.
I think that Ordnance Tubes are good for the Raider, but not the only way to go by far. There are a lot of good build types for the Raider, depending on how you want to fly it. You also said the best thing for the Raider is to sit back and fire, but the Raider is generally a very aggressive ship. It wants to rush at the enemy and blast the heck out of whatever it can. It makes a great counter point to the CR-90 that is trying to stay at a distance and broadside. The Raider is usually rushing at/after the CR-90. Unless it is in a defensive scenario, it doesn't want to sit back.
With that in mind, you can shake up the Ordnance makeup quite a bit. Plasma Torps are good to blast shields away from ships. Sure, you don't get the Crit, but you can wipe out that extra point of Shield with every hit for a lot cheaper than the Proton Torps. Also, Cluster Missiles are a good option when facing off against lots of small based ships. You will have a big target and sometimes you won't even face off against a Huge ship. In that case, you will need a method for blasting at all the small ships. Your current builds are really focused on big ships, but you will face lists with only a few or even zero big ships.
QuoteGOZANTI-CLASS CARRIER-The Gatling Gozanti: Blood Crow, Point-Defense Battery, Perceptive Copilot, Damage Control Team, Admiral Sloane (Empire only) (optional). 95
I think this is a terrible build for the Gozanti. I do not think an aggressive Gozanti is a good idea. You want to sit back and shoot at things, not rush them up the guts. If you do, that ship will die pretty fast and you should keep it pretty affordable instead of loading it with stuff.
QuoteSay hi to Sloane again-a card I have to think is great in Epic. As before, you might not need the Gozanti itself to carry her, but if points are tight, it can make sense. The points difference between the Gozanti and the Raider are more than enough to fit in Kagi or Jendon, though.
I think you are too fixated on Admiral Sloane. Yes, she is pretty good, but she's not the only good option for Imperials. Sloane is particularly not suited for the Gozanti as she requires you to be close to the action. You don't really want to put that ship too close to the fighting. There are many decent builds for the Gozanti with better crew cards.
Put Tarkin and a Targeting Battery and you have a better build that wants to sit just out and give everyone a TL. Add Requim and load with ships that have Ordnance and you can launch something like Tie Bombers and get double mods.
Moff JerJerrod can help to get ships in an important position. No range. Get ordnance carriers into the fight, get closer to the CR90, or even force a bump with a Tie Formation.
Minister Tua keeps your ship alive for the cost of an Energy.
Ciena Ree can be helpful to have a Wing Leader get a 90 degree turn at a crucial moment.
Agent Kallusu is a super cheap Calculate token for every shot for zero energy!
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Don't forget the Merchant One C-ROC (yo yo) with Combat Refit! It can allow for regular main guns, a Turret, and either a Missile or a Cannon to be fired all in one turn! That doesn't even count any Hardpoint you want to load onto it. This guy will like being aggressive or trying to skirt the edge of the fight.
3 hours ago, heychadwick said:If you are firing the Targeting Computer [sic] you won't be able to sustain firing the Turbolaser every round as you will be draining more Energy than you will refresh each round.
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I think that Ordnance Tubes are good for the Raider, but not the only way to go by far. There are a lot of good build types for the Raider, depending on how you want to fly it. You also said the best thing for the Raider is to sit back and fire, but the Raider is generally a very aggressive ship. It wants to rush at the enemy and blast the heck out of whatever it can. It makes a great counter point to the CR-90 that is trying to stay at a distance and broadside. The Raider is usually rushing at/after the CR-90. Unless it is in a defensive scenario, it doesn't want to sit back.
With that in mind, you can shake up the Ordnance makeup quite a bit. Plasma Torps are good to blast shields away from ships. Sure, you don't get the Crit, but you can wipe out that extra point of Shield with every hit for a lot cheaper than the Proton Torps. Also, Cluster Missiles are a good option when facing off against lots of small based ships. You will have a big target and sometimes you won't even face off against a Huge ship. In that case, you will need a method for blasting at all the small ships. Your current builds are really focused on big ships, but you will face lists with only a few or even zero big ships.
I think this is a terrible build for the Gozanti. I do not think an aggressive Gozanti is a good idea. You want to sit back and shoot at things, not rush them up the guts....
I think you are too fixated on Admiral Sloane.
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Don't forget the Merchant One C-ROC (yo yo) with Combat Refit!
It would take seven rounds to deplete a CR-90's energy below where it could fire turbolaser-plus-targeting battery. If you're firing both those guns for seven rounds you are probably doing just fine. Yes, I know there are scenarios where you won't be able to use OPC every round, but the general point holds.
Yes, I know there are non-ordnance builds for the Raider-- I included one in the post.
If the Raider is against a CR-90, yes, perhaps you'd rather close range-- but, in general, you don't want things up close, especially equipped as suggested, since close range encounters turn off many of your guns. Ideally you're engaging where you're getting range bonuses, but using ordnance to deny it to your enemy. Range 1 is bad for a Raider thus equipped. Sure, you could compensate with Bombardment Specialists, but at the cost of calculate tokens-- a fine expenditure when shooting at range 4 and not suffering return fire, less optimal in range 1 slugfests.
I don't think Concussion Missiles and Proton Torpedoes are "really focused on big ships"-- those are used in plenty of non-epic lists. (Also, that's an odd critique for you to levy when your objection to the idea of staying at range was "What about CR-90s?") Why, one of the nice things about Targeting Battery is the ability to change targets from one small ship to another if you blow up the previous target. It's a nicely versatile weapon. Sure, if you want to swap Concussion Missiles for Cluster, that's fine. No lo contendere. I won't concur on swapping Protons for Plasmas because your huge is shooting last. Odds are that your target won't be shielded by the time the Raider brings its guns to bear.
I generally agree that the other two builds for the Gozanti are better. I couldn't resist mentioning the Gatling Gozanti build because if you DO have a lot of mods it's hilarious. Agent Kallus comes into his own here, but only in specific circumstances.
Of course there are other options for crew slots on the Gozanti. There are other options for all of these things! As I said at the start of the post, these are starting points. I'm starting with Sloan because she's a known Good Thing in this sort of format, both because there are lots of ships and because Huges are desperate for mods. There's a whole list of crew options in another thread on this board. Most of them are probably fine. (Although I'm not as high on Tarkin because Colonel Jendon exists. Yes, Tarkin can give locks to ships that can't normally lock, but only situationally.)
It's striking that you seem more cavalier with the very pricey Raider than the much cheaper Gozanti.
I did mention Merchant One.
11 minutes ago, ChahDresh said:I generally agree that the other two builds for the Gozanti are better. I couldn't resist mentioning the Gatling Gozanti build because if you DO have a lot of mods it's hilarious. Agent Kallus comes into his own here, but only in specific circumstances.
First, I appreciate that you are looking for simple, reliable huge ship 'templates' (for lack of a better word). That is certainly helpful for Epic enthusiasts just jumping in. Second, I LOVE the Gatling Gozanti! There are some scenarios (like Passing Engagement) where the goal is to bring down an objective token, and this thing can really lay into them.
4 hours ago, heychadwick said:I think this is a terrible build for the Gozanti. I do not think an aggressive Gozanti is a good idea. You want to sit back and shoot at things, not rush them up the guts. If you do, that ship will die pretty fast and you should keep it pretty affordable instead of loading it with stuff.
Sure, if there are a lot of ships to concentrate fire on it, it will go down fast. The key is to screen it appropriately. Thin the enemy forces with the first pass of starfighters, then the Gozanti comes up and picks off the stragglers. Alternatively, set the Gozanti somewhere your opponent doesn't want to go, like a little out of the way of objectives, or behind a dense cluster of obstacles. The Gozanti can come around in round 2 or 3 to lay waste. Heck, you can even bring your own screen on board and launch them during the system phase to block enemy starfighters and deny them actions so your Gozanti can move in with even better shots and a better chance at surviving. (TIE interceptors are great launching from a Gozanti).
18 hours ago, ChahDresh said:It would take seven rounds to deplete a CR-90's energy below where it could fire turbolaser-plus-targeting battery. If you're firing both those guns for seven rounds you are probably doing just fine. Yes, I know there are scenarios where you won't be able to use OPC every round, but the general point holds.
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I did mention Merchant One.
OK....you are right about the energy. I didn't think of the sizable reserve. I'm stick in the old version that starts off at zero.
Yes, you did mention Merchant One at the end.
As for the rest....I find your builds as a bit repetitious when it comes to Ordnance Tubes and Admiral Sloane. I think there are other builds that are just as equal.
I could be wrong that the Torpedo and Concussion Missiles as well as the Targeting Battery and main guns might be enough to face off against small based ships. I would have to play a lot of games to figure that out. I'm looking forward to the research.
It's not that I'm willing to throw the Raider away and I'm cautious with the Gozanti. It's more that my believe is that the Raider is an aggressive ship and does well when flown aggressively. If it were passive against ships that can fire at a long distance, such as how the CR90 can be kitted out, I think it would not fair as well. As for the Gozanti, I could be wrong, but I feel that that is a ship that can get destroyed relatively quickly. I don't believe (but could be wrong) that it would add enough to a combat to really be worth a serious risk of throwing it away. The Gozanti and the Raider are much different ships and I feel their strategies are different.
Thousand point quad-Raider list:
Outer Rim Patrol (150)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Cluster Missiles (5)
Ordnance Tubes (2)
Targeting Battery (9)
Ordnance Team (4)
Bombardment Specialists (6)
Tibanna Reserves (3)
Assailer (7)
Hotshot Gunner (7)
Ship total: 206 Half Points: 103 Threshold: 14
Outer Rim Patrol (150)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Concussion Missiles (6)
Ordnance Tubes (2)
Targeting Battery (9)
Ordnance Team (4)
Bombardment Specialists (6)
Tibanna Reserves (3)
Corvus (3)
Ship total: 196 Half Points: 98 Threshold: 14
Outer Rim Patrol (150)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Cluster Missiles (5)
Ordnance Tubes (2)
Targeting Battery (9)
Darth Vader (14)
Ordnance Team (4)
Bombardment Specialists (6)
Tibanna Reserves (3)
Impetuous (4)
Agent Kallus (5)
Ship total: 215 Half Points: 108 Threshold: 13
Outer Rim Patrol (150)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Concussion Missiles (6)
Ordnance Tubes (2)
Point-Defense Battery (10)
0-0-0 (5)
Ordnance Team (4)
Bombardment Specialists (6)
Tibanna Reserves (3)
Instigator (6)
Ship total: 205 Half Points: 103 Threshold: 14
Rear Admiral Chiraneau (76)
Emperor Palpatine (11)
Ship total: 87 Half Points: 44 Threshold: 8
Colonel Vessery (84)
Juke (7)
Ship total: 91 Half Points: 46 Threshold: 4
Total: 1000
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0:
https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v8ZeZ500Z369XW136W98W271W270WW280W275W285W297W86Y369XW136W99W271W270WW280W275W285W298Y369XW136W98W271W270W26W280W275W285W299W15Y369XW136W99W271W272W63W280W275W285W300WY214XWW29WWWWWWWY194X123WWWW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=
Four Raiders?! That sounds both awesome to field and a tad excessive. Not to mention expensive.
12 hours ago, Faerie1979 said:Four Raiders?! That sounds both awesome to field and a tad excessive. Not to mention expensive.
Mostly an excercise in "how would I build for each title"
Corvus can use bombardment specialists twice in around, so goes for long range munitions
Instigator teams well with 0-0-0, which means it can use bombardment specialists twice, but only at range 1, and only if they dont give me the title bonus instead. Without long range multitap, Targeting battery is less important, so if 0-0-0 gives Instigator rerolls, go to town with Point Defense battery.
Assailer has the gunner slot, so Hotshot Gunners on the Targeting battery to strip tokens while I target lock, before Torpedo/clustering/primarying to death.
Impetuous has Agent Kallus stapled to it's bonus crew slot, and 0-0-0 needs Vader in the fleet anyway- Instigator cant take him, Corvus wants to stay out of range, and Assailer has Hotshot gunners, so Impetuous gets him by default. Without long range multitap, Cluster Misiles fills the second munition slot, able to drain all it's ammo in a single volley because huge ship bonus attack rules.