First off, since this is my first post, I just wanted to start out by saying hello. So, uh, Hello.

Anyway, I’m a long time player of both 1e and 2e WFRP. I’m currently GM’ing a Dark Heresy campaign, but for some reason I started obsessing over the shiny new 3e WFRP box set, so I ended up buying it a few weeks ago (plus the Player and GM kits since then).

I haven’t had a chance to actually play yet (and I don’t know when I will), but in order to help me get a grip on the new rules, I rolled up a pair of characters (Roadwarden and Waywatcher) and ran them through a mock combat scenario.

Without going into too much detail, I ended up making the Roadwarden a fencer (rapier and main gauche) with a 4 Strength, all other stats at 3. Action card wise I used Dual Strike (new version), Improved Parry and Riposte. He also had a talent card which could be exhausted for bonus initiative dice, and had a crossbow & mail shirt as additional starting gear. The Waywatcher was set up with Agility and WP at 4, all other stats at 3. I gave him Sniper Shot, Accurate Shot and Nimble Strike (? – the one with a cooldown of 2) for actions, Catlike Reflexes and ??? for talents, and started him with pretty basic gear – Longbow, leather armor and a sword.

The scenario I set-up was very basic. Giant spider > Rally Step > 2 Giant Wolves. I will admit that at this point, before even starting the fight, I was somewhat overwhelmed by all the bits. Of course running two PC’s and the ‘other’ side of an encounter at the same time obviously isn’t something that will occur in a real game.

To start, I put the two sides at close range and then rolled initiative – 2 success’s for each PC, 1 for the spider. I decided to maneuver the Waywatcher back to medium range (also now at C1 stance) and then tagged the spider with Accurate Shot. From what I recall it was a palpable hit and knocked off about half of the spiders wounds. After this, I engaged with the ‘Warden (now at R1) and attacked with Dual Strike. I used dodge for the spiders defense, as well as some of its A/C/E dice and ended up missing.

Now it was the spiders turn. I’m pretty sure I didn’t have it maneuver and attacked with either it’s Bite or Overwhelm attack. What ended up happening was the Roadwarden used Improved Parry, the spider missed, so I activated Riposte. Ouch! This put the spider within a wound or two of its threshold. Another shot from the Watcher and that was that (although this may have triggered some delay).

At this point I’m thinking that this is definitely different than 1e or 2e combat and that, yes, these guys are pretty tough right out of the gate. “Visually” though, I really liked how the scene played out – especially with the parry/riposte combo working just like I thought it would (and being very cool to boot).

OK, so now I give the combatants a Rally Step. The elf recovers some fatigue, while the Roadwarden rolls for better initiative (with no change).

Enter the wolves.

I decide that they are at close range to the Roadwarden and Medium from the elf. I roll initiative for them and get three success’s. Since the wolves each get an additional free maneuver (from their Fast attribute) they both engage the Roadwarden and both use the assist maneuver. This is where things get ugly very fast. The Warden has some defenses, but the wolves are tough and they’re each getting extra fortune dice from the assists, from the numbers advantage and from A/C/E dice (because I’m mean). Long story short, the warden takes a good number of wounds and suffers a critical which counts his stance as one space closer to Neutral (where it already is from the rally step). Plus I think he took some stress and/or fatigue as well. I believe the wolves also ‘lose’ their Bite attack due to a delay result.

Now it’s the PC’s turn. The Warden goes (Dual Strike) and misses (also getting an extra misfortune from being outnumbered). He’s at R1 now, but still counts as being Neutral, which is really hurting him. The elf goes next and hits one wolf with Sniper Shot for moderate damage.

It’s back to the wolves again. I have one disengage the warden and move to engage the elf. This ends up costing one wound for the extra maneuver instead of two (again thanks to the Fast attribute). Now the Warden has burned his active defense from the previous round and ends up taking another big hit and again, it’s critical. Worse, it’s the same type of result, so now he counts as two spaces closer to Neutral stance and has no option but to roll straight characteristic dice. The elf goes unscathed, but does use up his dodge in the process.

On the PC’s turn, the Warden misses again. Now I’m thinking, yep, these guys are tough - which the wolves are going to find out soon enough when they’re devouring the PC’s sinewy corpses. The elf fairs much better though. I maneuver to draw his sword and hit the wolf with Nimble Strike (?). Agility subbed for Weapon skill and Strength is great for this character and it’s a big hit that almost takes down the wolf (the one he previously wounded).

Still, things look pretty grim right now and keep going firmly in that direction. On the wolves turn, the warden takes another hit, goes down, and I frantically flip through the rulebook to check the “You’re Dead” rules. Whew! The warden now has three crits (the last via the flipped wound from the KO), but death occurs when that threshold is exceeded, so he’s down, has multiple critical wounds, but isn’t dead (for now). The last wolf attacks the elf and misses this time. At this point, I'd seen what I wanted to & decided to call it.

I’m sure I missed a few fortune or misfortune dice here or there (and probably skipped describing a round or two) but all things being equal, it seemed like I did everything correctly and it was no cake-walk for our poor (partially digested?) heroes. Now, I know this happened in a vacuum, but my initial impression is that things are, more or less, as grim and perilous as ever. Sure the threat of "exploding" damage dice is gone and staring characters are more competant, but gone too is the safety net of fate points and I'm not convinced at all that replacing attacks that usually miss with attacks that usually hit (unles you're a Roadwarden apparently) as a bad thing.

Anyway, I'm liking the new approach and look forward to giving it a spin. If I have any complaint at this point it's that I don't think the designers gave enough good examples of gameplay outside of Encounter mode and I'd like to see social encounters fleshed out better. There's something about this system I really seem to like though, because I can't seem to stop obsessing about it. Heck, in the time I've taken to write this bloated post, I've gone and picked up TGS.

It seems like you've had a somewhat similar epiphany to me - there are clearly areas for development, but something about the basic system just 'feels right'.

In terms of social combat, I know what you mean. The one in 'A Day Late...' is a bit awkward. Here's an example of one I did in 'Eye For An Eye' off the cuff and it worked a charm (down near the bottom of the page):

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I don't think that link works...hmmm...don't know how to fix that and I can't copy/paste the text. Sorry.

It's in a thread called 'Tell us how your eye for an eye scenario went' near the bottom of the page.

First post here too

Thanks for the nice account!

El Hefe said:

I was wondering if that setup is actually possible – it would be great if you guys could help me out here since I just finished reading the Rulebook for the first time and so far only have experience with WFRP 1st edition.

You’re human and you buy 6*3 + 1*4 characteristics. That means you spent 21 of your 25 points. Then you spent another 2 points for 3 actions. We're at 23 now. One point for the talent makes 24. That leaves one point for wealth to reach the 25 limit, so you can only buy equipment for 50 silver. The crossbow is covered even for poor wardens like you, but you still need to buy a rapier, main gauche and mail shirt, which adds up to 175 shillings… too much!

So in effect, your would have had to ditch one of the actions or the talent to have the significant starting benefit of the sophisticated and parry-friendly two weapon combo plus 1 defense plus 2 soak, without which you might have gone down one bite earlier…

It looks that built-to-the-rules starting characters are even weaker than the chaps that got eaten up in your sample. Grim indeed!

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=165&efcid=3&efidt=267362&efpag=0#273957

There you go.

Fairly extensive forum software, with alot of popups...

ozean said:

Not sure, but i think you have forgotten that your starting career increases the two prime stats by 1 before you start buying more your points?

pumpkin said:

Hmm, I thought it would only be one of the prime stats? I have to look it up after work.

Ah, you are right – I have always wondered about this. On page 28 of the Rulebook it says quite clearly:

“increase each of the starting career’s Primary Characteristics by one”

This is quite a relief because otherwise you would really have to invest quite heavily if you want to get a characteristic up to 5 as a human. Thanks!

Seems like you did things right in your example. Your synopsis echo's my opinion as well. Characters are more competent but so are the bad guys and without having the fate point safety net combats are gritty. You don't tend to get the surprise one shot kills like you did in previous versions but neither do starting combats usually turn into round by round misses while waiting for that lucky break. Now characters act more in line with their capabilities and that's not just in combat, but a general statement. Characters now feel competent. It's awesome. When they try something it generally works as they would expect it to. I do not miss the 70% failure rate most previous editions had at just a slightly challenging task. Most characters even under favorably conditions before were flipping the coin to see if something worked and while I'm comfortable playing in that range because I've been doing it so long. I certainly don't miss it.

Things don't usually kill PCs in one go, but the damage can really pile up and drag them down.

In an otherwise harmless river bandit fight, the group's main warrior Pitfighter took a dagger to the arm, and it was a crit that crippled that arm (-1 Strength, +purple die for things using that arm). It didn't heal in time for the whole Eye For Eye scenario, and he ended up being one KO hit from dead from the number of flesh wound crits he had taken as well. That definitely put some tension into proceedings.