With each new expansion you add to the game, you add about 4 regular cards to the Overlord deck. This both dilutes the deck by adding weaker cards in, and also makes it take that many more cards to cycle the deck. Is there any option, like possibly taking out an equal number of older cards, or increasing threat, to compensate the OL for this?

Otherwise, the more expansions you add, the <slight> more disadvantage the OL gets as his base deck gets thicker. Sure he gets access to more diverse monsters, but that doesnt really help.

Or can an Overlord opt not to include some of the new cards, just cuz he doesnt want them?

Eventually, once we add the 10th expansion, we will have added 40 cards, and doubled the overlord deck!

poobaloo said:

In RtL there is a way to remove 4 cards from the deck.

However in both the case of RtL and vanilla Descnet, I think between AoD and WoD you add maybe 8-10 cards? Assuming you don't have Evil Genius out, that increases the time to run out of the deck by 4-5 turns. I've never found it to be a problem, especially with some of the cards you can swap out using the Treachery system.

I disagree about the more diverse monsters not helping. Ferrox, Deep Elves, and Dark Priests especially are formidable opponents. While you extend the time it takes to make the Heroes lose 3 Conquest I think is more than compensated by the fact the expansion monsters can increase your Hero kill rate, making them lose Conquest even faster.

True, adding the Ferrox and Dark Priests, Elves, etc are great, all the cards added are spawn cards. This makes the deck heavy in spawn cards in general, most of which end up getting burned. But the new cards added in TOI are a single Medusa, single Wendigo, etc. These seem way too worthless... a single monster without some protection is pretty toast against 4 heroes. What is the clause of which you speak, that would let one remove 4 cards in RTL? That would be great. Anything to get rid of some of those ultra weak cards.

-mike

There is an Avatar upgrade you can buy that removes 4 cards of your choice from the deck.

I haven't gotten ToI yet, but there are some lone monster spawn cards that are very strong, like Lone Troll.

I queried this before I got RtL, since I bought JitD, AoD and WoD but just wanted to start with the basic quests. I was persuaded to add in the extra cards. Yes, this means it takes the OL longer to empty his deck, but the stuff that is included in there (plus the fact that the OL now gets treachery) balances it out. Whether it balances correctly is up to you.

"I disagree about the more diverse monsters not helping. Ferrox, Deep Elves, and Dark Priests especially are formidable opponents"

Just curious... do you have a normal Deep Elf spawn card? Since you mention them as those put into the deck? If you do, I'm missing one... badly! Or do you just refer to the Treachery Lone Assassin card.

The only spawn cards that came with AoD was one for Blood Apes and one for Dark Priests. I wish there had been a non-Treachery one for Deep Elves.

Big Remy said:

I thought so, and I'm with you on the wish...

The original deck comes with 36 cards: 12 events, 9 traps, 9 spawns and 6 powers.

The well of darkness adds 3, all spawns.

The altar of despair adds 6: 2 events, 2 traps and 2 spawns. (I'm not sure about "dark balm".)

The tomb of ice has an errata, so I don't know what it adds.

So if we don't count the tomb of ice, there are now 45 basic cards: 14 events, 11 traps, 14 spawns and 6 powers. Aside from that, the treachery points allow the OL to change some cards, but let's forget it for now.

So the extra 9 cards mean 3 or 5 extra turns depending on the evil genius. Since you can now spawn ferrox (2), apes (2) and priests (1 normal + 1 cursed), wich are better than the average razorwing or hellhund (or sorcerer since one of the priests is red), the heros will need more time to battle. If we get to a point when the basic deck is 60 cards thick, you can bet it will be full of nasty monsters. Once this happens, you'll have to keep in your mind that you are not trying to make the heroes lose time (as you were with the razorwings), you are now shoting to kill. Your better monsters allow you to do it. And the treachery allows you to eliminate the "bad" cards from the deck and replace them with deadly cards. Your choice gets wider with every expansion you add. So in the end, I wouldn't care about the extra cards.

What I would worry is the fact that the feat cards from the tomb of ice, compensate for the treachery cards from the well of darkness and the altar of despair. Isn't it strange that the balance of the game changes depending on what expansion you add?

Galvancito1 said:

Yeah, that seems to be true. I've only ever played quests 1&2 from JitD and 5 sessions of an RtL campaign, but from what I've read......

JitD was 'balanced' with 3 heroes. With 4 heroes is was too easy.
Then AoD/WoD came out and introduced treachery so now you use that in the base game. What do the heroes get in return? Not much. So the introduction of treachery makes the game more balanced towards the OL with 4 heroes.

However, from what I've read, the WoD quests are very hard. Some say impossible. I've seen a number of threads where the heroes have never completed a quest from WoD. This puts me off trying them. I dont mind if they are hard, but impossible unless you get lucky on cards isnt right.

Now, I dont have ToI yet, but it seems that the feat cards give the heroes a boost, so maybe with feats, the WoD quests now become playable?

Thanks for all the answers, guys... this does help mitigate my fears of the OL deck getting perpetually thicker. As an OL, I am pretty good at the delay tactics, and scaring overly-cautious heroes into wasting time. Thus I tend to do well with draining my deck, so I was hoping to keep it short. I'm somewhat annoyed at having to add the "single medusa" spawn card to my deck, as I dont think I'll ever use it. A single character that's about as strong as a dark priest or sorcerer, but with either of the others, you get 2 for the same price? Medusa's should have come in a pair. Or at least the upgraded version should have included a pair, not just a single red.

FYI, for the list above, TOI adds 3 spawn cards to the standard deck: A single Medusa, a double Shade, and a double Lava Beetle. There is a fourth "missing" card that spawns a single wendigo mentioned in the manual that apparently didnt make the box sets. I was disappointed at that, as Wendigos will never make my campaigns, as I'm sure to not waste my treachery for their spawn card.

-mike