1 hour ago, Wazat said:

Foresight is 5 points cheaper, but as a matter of personal playstyle, I don't feel I'm getting nearly as much bang for my buck as with Hate,

How could I have forgotten Hate!? Yeah, 10 hits makes Hate pretty worthwhile, especially with two agility and the evade action.

Sense Vader and 3 Foresight Inqs is the real deal, a friend of mine is using it atm. It hurts a lot.

Very intrigued by Lancer builds, I'm trying a few things out there again, but haven't had genuine table time with either upgrade yet. I don't think Snap Ketsu is going to pass theory and Fly Casual, it seems very expensive for an unreliable effect. I do think it's something you have to try against a real opponent, to get the feel of how it impacts their decisions, that's where the value would appear to be.

Foresight Asajj, tempted to drop her in the squad I'm planning for a tourney this wknd. Not tested it at all but hitting the ground running is a thing.....

I feel like the price, inbuilt mod and R1-3 make it an easier inclusion.

I really do like Heightened Perception on her, so there is a sacrifice to be made there, but it has a similar potential and would be more widely useful. Some games, HP is just wasted points.

(Hate does not fit in the squad, but I'll have to try that one)

Amusing Comparison:
Baron of the Empire (TIE v1, just in case you forgot) with Snap Shot is the same cost as Inquisitor with Foresight (39 points a pop).
Not sure if that is a reasonable comparison, but it bears noting.
I would rather the Inquisitor, because that 3 point base difference to get Force is laughably cheap and, if you don't use Foresight, its just bonus mods for essentially nothing.

I have played against the 5 Foresight Inquisitors and it is not an experience I would look to try again willingly.
It was funny... but Massed Foresight is an absolute Nightmare to go against with 2 Dice-or-less Defense Ships. That Focus-To-Hit gets work done. Even against Force-carriers, draining those tokens is useful.
Most force carrying ships are relatively mobile, Inquisitors and Deltas are both solid ships with good manoeuvrability and dials, and that allows them to relatively easily get in to a good crossfire position or to point at a lane and dare the opponent to squeeze through.

7 Points for Snap prevents it from being super-massed on smaller/less expensive ships, but Range 2 is a large bubble.... but 2 dice unmodified attacks are meh-at-best against anything with 2+ Dice defense.
I feel like I am playing to get lucky with that sort of attack (either against low defense/highly predictable ships or to nudge a damage through).
I am testing it with Pure Sabaac at the moment and, against 2 defense or less, it is doing work because of that third dice. The threat is ok, as is Sabaac as a magnet/area denial/range control piece piece.
Needs work though.

Played against a Snap Shot Ello Atsy. Ello makes use of it round after round. Was quite annoying.

I have a snap shot squad consisting of Pure Sabbac w/snapshot, Gideon w/snapshot, Duchess, Vermile w/vader crew and juke. both Sabbac and Gideon have the ability to roll 3 dice on snapshot depending on the game state. Vermile w/Vader and juke can push good damage to. makes Jedi sad.

it's been pretty fun!

Played against Snap X Wings and they did seem quite a good platform to me. Which I found odd. But the combination of 1 and 3 speed moves they have, with a small base and potential boost, kinda made R2 quite natural to the way they flew. It was a lot of Snap.

I dunno.... anyway....

I do expect Inquiitors to go up by 2pt. Foresight may remain the same, I dunno that either. Whatever, these little buggers are going to be around, they're really good.

I really like it on Sabacc. His problem is getting hit with initiative and instantly switched off. Snap gives him way more influence. But I massively suck at flying him. Apparently. Theory is good.

13 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

I really like it on Sabacc. His problem is getting hit with initiative and instantly switched off. Snap gives him way more influence. But I massively suck at flying him. Apparently. Theory is good.

How do you feel that you suck with him?
Is he getting in to bad positions? Being too focused upon without the rest of your list able to capitalise?
Strikers are very much a finicky ship...

......

I am testing Swarm Tactics to ensure that Sabaac regularly gets at least one 5 Dice shot or a 3 Dice Snap + 4 Dice Attack.

Current base for this test is:
Sabaac - Snap Shot, Shield
Soontir Fel - Swarm Tactics, Shield (even though it feels weird to field Soontir as a Swarm Caddy... could go to I5 with Duchess instead)

This gives Two I6 shots +/- Snap Shot and leaves 77 points to play with. That 77 needs to be a credible threat that can move when it needs to and/or Joust and Punch against low ship counts with the above setup because you are trying to lean hard in with scary High Initiative shots here.... preferably something that could feasibly start on the opposite side of the table by itself and join with them quickly.
Have tested it with Whisper - Fifth Brother, Afterburners and Passive Sensors.
Felt OK. All parts can move when they want to... but I am concerned about a swarm or genuine aces.

Could also fit Vader with Afterburners + 3 point upgrade (I would look at Passive Sensors or Hate) for all I6. Has the bonus of being Hyperspace legal.

It could be interesting to toy with a Palp Shuttle, Fifth Brother on Sabaac, and then some points left over, but I feel that would be too flimsy (even if the Shuttle Coordinates Evade to either Sabaac or Soontir). Also feels like I would be leaning too hard in to the base (Soontir/Sabaac) and not enough left over.
Perhaps Vermeil with Vader on board could work: Strip Tokens/Deal Damage, then Vermeil goes hard into someone after Sabaac and Soontir have softened them. Has the advantage that, should Soontir and Sabaac be separated/Sabaac destroyed with Soontir alive, Soontir can raise Vermeil to I6. Also Hyperspace Legal.

All still feels like I am trying too hard to make Snap Sabaac with Soontir work though...
I don't think it is reliable.
Fun... but not reliable.
Still testing.....

Maybe bring Rexler and Seventh Sister? Reliability is there.

"Pure Sabacc" (44)
Snap Shot (7)
Shield Upgrade (6)

Ship total: 57 Half Points: 29 Threshold: 3

Rexler Brath (81)
Juke (7)
Fire-Control System (2)
Jamming Beam (0)

Ship total: 90 Half Points: 45 Threshold: 4

Seventh Sister (43)
Fire-Control System (2)
Cluster Missiles (5)

Ship total: 50 Half Points: 25 Threshold: 2


Total: 197

Funny alternative: Snapshot Barrage

"Pure Sabacc" (44)
Snap Shot (7)
Fifth Brother (9)
Shield Upgrade (6)

Ship total: 66 Half Points: 33 Threshold: 3

Gideon Hask (30)
Snap Shot (7)

Ship total: 37 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 2

"Scourge" Skutu (32)
Snap Shot (7)

Ship total: 39 Half Points: 20 Threshold: 2

Grand Inquisitor (52)
Foresight (4)

Ship total: 56 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 2


Total: 198

8 hours ago, Vespid1311 said:

23 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

I really like it on Sabacc. His problem is getting hit with initiative and instantly switched off. Snap gives him way more influence. But I massively suck at flying him. Apparently. Theory is good.

How do you feel that you suck with him?

I honestly haven't flown him a lot but I have had a couple good games. There's just something about small base mandatory Ailerons that throws me off at times and puts me out of sync. They're too squishy for me to gamble with them particularly well in recovery. So in a bit more than half my games, its basically like having a 50pt deficit for all but the 1st 2 turns, lol.

Mostly it's just that I need more practice. I think I probably lean on the bait a bit too much and there's other ships that suit that more.

Rex and 7th Sis are good shouts for a potentially decent squad though. Sis and Rex make excellent bait ships, it may work for me.

On 12/7/2019 at 6:35 AM, Vespid1311 said:

Perhaps Vermeil with Vader on board could work: Strip Tokens/Deal Damage, then Vermeil goes hard into someone after Sabaac and Soontir have softened them. Has the advantage that, should Soontir and Sabaac be separated/Sabaac destroyed with Soontir alive, Soontir can raise Vermeil to I6. Also Hyperspace Legal.

I'm a fan of Vermeil, particularly with Vader crew. It's a strong combo and Vader does a good job of softening up the target before you I6s let loose into it.

10 hours ago, Wazat said:

I'm a fan of Vermeil, particularly with Vader crew. It's a strong combo and Vader does a good job of softening up the target before you I6s let loose into it.

Vermeil is great, especially with Vader Crew. can be a real big threat.

thats how my list work, Vermeil is a solid blocker and control element while Gideon and Sabacc control space with the snap shots. fun times.

Something like this?

"Pure Sabacc" (44)
Snap Shot (7)
Shield Upgrade (6)
Ship total: 57 Half Points: 29 Threshold: 3

Soontir Fel (53)
Swarm Tactics (5)
Shield Upgrade (8)
Ship total: 66 Half Points: 33 Threshold: 2

Major Vermeil (49)
Intimidation (3)
Darth Vader (14)
0-0-0 (5)
Ship total: 71 Half Points: 36 Threshold: 4

Total: 194

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v8ZhZ200Z210X256WWW165Y179X132W165WY183X122W26W63W&sn=Sabacc is Evil&obs=

Though maybe drop Intimidation and 0-0-0 since this fleet cares a lot about its bid.

I was tempted to give Sabacc Fifth Brother, but I don't want to push the opponent's attention toward Sabacc and Soontir more than it already is. Vermeil needs to be a relative hazard. Too bad he can't equip gunners, though Seventh Sister is an option in a pinch. Though again, a larger bid may be much more valuable, and 5-6 points may not be enough.

Thoughts?

More testing, this time with TIE Advanced Vader.

From a competitive standpoint, I don't think Sabaac/Soontir tethered is that good.
It's Fun, and hilarious when they realise what just happened (if it happens)... but it is not good.

The Vader punch is a huge threat, to be sure, and all I6 Shots has won me games, but it is not enough to fix the flaws.

On 12/10/2019 at 12:27 AM, Wazat said:

"Pure Sabacc" (44)
Snap Shot (7)
Shield Upgrade (6)
Ship total: 57 Half Points: 29 Threshold: 3

Soontir Fel (53)
Swarm Tactics (5)
Shield Upgrade (8)
Ship total: 66 Half Points: 33 Threshold: 2

Major Vermeil (49)
Intimidation (3)
Darth Vader (14)
0-0-0 (5)
Ship total: 71 Half Points: 36 Threshold: 4

Total: 194

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v8ZhZ200Z210X256WWW165Y179X132W165WY183X122W26W63W&sn=Sabacc is Evil&obs=

I flew this once last night. It was only about a 40 minute game due to time constraints, but I did pretty well considering I forgot every round to use Snap Shot. >:( Opponent flew Ten Numb, Braylen, Gavin Darklighter, and Jake. I killed Braylen and he got half points on Vermeil when time was called. I charged his team with an evading Vermeil and flanked with Sabacc + Soontir, which worked quite well.

Would have been nice to get those few snap shot attempts in, but whatever. I think I'll remove 0-0-0 from Vermeil but perhaps keep Intimidation, as it saw some use with Vermy acting as a blocker, giving the others much better shots. Vermeil could also use a shield upgrade, and maybe Director Krennic. Optimized Prototype would be nice on Soontir or Sabacc, and Vermeil's ability and vader-force mix well with target locking (though he did well with evading too).

There's also some value to going first, since that means Sabacc can shoot before losing his bonus. So the bid is a bit negotiable, but I'd still be happy keeping it around 5 - 10 since Soontir may live or die on it.

Perhaps like this. Thoughts?

"Pure Sabacc" (44)
Snap Shot (7)
Shield Upgrade (6)
Ship total: 57 Half Points: 29 Threshold: 3

Soontir Fel (53)
Swarm Tactics (5)
Targeting Computer (3)
Ship total: 61 Half Points: 31 Threshold: 2

Major Vermeil (49)
Intimidation (3)
Darth Vader (14)
Director Krennic (4)
Shield Upgrade (4)
Ship total: 74 Half Points: 37 Threshold: 5

Total: 192

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v8ZhZ200Z210X256WWW165Y179X132W249WY183X122W26W28W165&sn=Snap Sabacc&obs=