Hello there,

So I'm unsure about something that happened in my last Campaign Session:

The Force User of the Group decided to Rip the wiring of a closed Hangar Door using the Force Move Ability.

In the moment I permitted it, because it fitted the scene and everything, but in general I now think that that might open up a whole new Box of Problems if Force Move can be used on stuff you cannot see or is at the other side of a wall or something.

Have you experienced something like this in your sessions and how would you handle / rule this?

Ripping out the wiring wouldn't do anything but get the door stuck in place, if I was GMing. Was that the plan?

Does the Force-user have the Move upgrade to target secured objects?

How did they know how the door mechanisms were internally wired? Did they have a reason to know?

Also, while this doesn't target an NPC, you COULD give it a difficulty like an opposed check against a character, to represent how hard the task is. Include setbacks for being unable to see the internal mechanisms, too.

Yes, the Player has the Upgrades for Fine Manipulation and targeting secured Objects.

Regarding the knowing what is behind the door / wall, is what I'm thinking about.
Making it an opposed check, yes definitely.

But I'm considering not allowing it at all without some sort of Sense Force Power.
My reasoning: Yes Force Sensitives can feel Objects and Material through the Force, but can they do that, without any specific Force Power?

Or should I just simply make manipulating for example the Door Controls on the other Side of an entrance a 3 Difficulty 2 Setback Discipline check?

Hm. What about Farsight? Seeing stuff that's outside your regular view is what that power is for. It reduces that power's usefulness if you can target out-of-view objects without it. Maybe don't allow it at all, or only with lots of setbacks & at relatively high difficulty without having Farsight or, like, a camera view of the other side? Even Vader apparently needed to be in a holo-call with someone to Force-murder them, after all. You'd be well within your rights to sidestep the whole issue by saying you goofed by allowing it and that some kind of awareness is required.

Thats a really good Idea,
Farsight totally slipped my mind 😃

First of all, I'd be hesitant to make Move even more problematic than it already is.

But here... seeing the access panel next to the door counts as line of sight for me.

Now, just ripping the wires out seems more like a good way to permanently lock the door, but then again, the heroes generally use blasters to open or close doors as applicable in the movies.

I would definitely ask for a severe Skullduggery/Willpower check for this kind of Force Lockpicking though, assuming the PC has the final control upgrade for fine manipulation.

1 minute ago, micheldebruyn said:

First of all, I'd be hesitant to make Move even more problematic than it already is.

It's a short leap from allowing Move to work against unseen wiring to a player asking to Move an NPC's stomach contents to sidestep targeting the NPC.

I would totally allow it. It's a nice idea after all. In the movies door controls get blastered all the time. Give it setbacks, but that's all what I would do about it. Would it permanently shut the door? Well you could also say, that it cuts the energy / controls to the mechanics that hold the door shut, so the pcs can easily open the door without any pneumatic / hydraulic force holding against it.

And if the players start abusing it, just use your role as a GM to say "no, that doesn't work that way"

5 hours ago, MasterZelgadis said:

I would totally allow it. It's a nice idea after all. In the movies door controls get blastered all the time. Give it setbacks, but that's all what I would do about it. Would it permanently shut the door? Well you could also say, that it cuts the energy / controls to the mechanics that hold the door shut, so the pcs can easily open the door without any pneumatic / hydraulic force holding against it.

And if the players start abusing it, just use your role as a GM to say "no, that doesn't work that way"

That was my first Idea.
But then I as player in other rounds dont like inconsistency.
I have talked to my player and we've discussed what in the last few sessions would work like it happened and what (only two things) would not, he's fine with that and I'm relieved somewhat xD

Then let him flip a destiny coin to make it work. So he can make use of his great idea, but it comes with a cost.

I would have ruled that they'd have to know the inner workings of the door to move something that they can't see.

A roll for mechanics, possibly?
Maybe with an added blue die for help from someone with higher mechanics skills?

I basically treat force powers like they were "mutant powers" in x-men and apply some sort of rudimentary logic to it (well, things I find to be logical, anyway)... want to move an object you can't see? Then you'll have to either have previous knowledge of its location (like the parts of a lock in a door), or some sort of ability to see things that are hidden (farsight?).

On 11/10/2019 at 9:55 AM, Fl1nt said:

Yes, the Player has the Upgrades for Fine Manipulation and targeting secured Objects.

Regarding the knowing what is behind the door / wall, is what I'm thinking about.
Making it an opposed check, yes definitely.

But I'm considering not allowing it at all without some sort of Sense Force Power.
My reasoning: Yes Force Sensitives can feel Objects and Material through the Force, but can they do that, without any specific Force Power?

Or should I just simply make manipulating for example the Door Controls on the other Side of an entrance a 3 Difficulty 2 Setback Discipline check?

I think it's reasonable to require some kind of check to know where to aim the Move attempt. There is ton of precedent in the franchise of using the Force to feel where things are, beyond the immediate senses of the person. I actually just re-watched the Yoda/X-Wing clip, and when Yoda is lifting it, it is fully submerged, meaning he couldn't actually SEE it, but was able to MOVE it. So knowing that there is wiring, immediately behind a panel next to a mechanical door, and using Move to reach back a few extra inches behind the panel to yank some stuff, seems perfectly fine to me. You don't have to SEE something to MOVE it. Now, I do think it's fair to make the player do a skill check, in this case Mechanics or Slicing would be fitting, though if it's a military ship I'd allow Knowledge: Warfare, under the premise of knowing the schematics of the ship, but that would be the harder of the 3 skill checks in my opinion.

If they passed the check, then they can Move it just fine. If they fail, they can still do the Move action, but I would say they tear at some of the frame of the door, without actually getting a hold of any important wiring.

Thats a reasonable way to handle things.
I like it.